Question for Nontheists

[perladow]

I’ve been wondering about this, so here goes:

if it could somehow be proven without a doubt that God really does exist, would you worship God? feel free to elaborate on the reasons.

personally, I would not. I’m a bit of an egoist, and thusly I think that whatever I do, most of the time, should benefit me. obviously I’m not completely self-centered, because I have plenty of friends and family who I love to death and I’m willing to sacrifice for their happiness and well-being as well. but mostly why I say no is because worship of God would mean I’d have to apologize a heck of a lot for my behavior (sure, the church would consider it bad, but I’m not hurting anyone by hating people who deserve to be hated, or for eating way too much, or being a lazy turd when it comes to my school work… I could go on forever) and I’m definitely not the kind to apologize unless I mean it. and if I really was sorry for acting the way I act now, then I wouldn’t act that way in the first place! anyway. that’s how I see it. now go on, kiddies! tell me what you think.

oh yeah. and you theists are plenty welcome to comment if you want.

 

[Hreh]

If it were proven that there was a god, I also wouldn’t worship him. The problem with anyone who would is that faith (in a divine entity) is based on believing something you already know can’t be proven as if you know it exists although you can’t prove it, which also fits the description of children who have invisible friends but my digression here will lead me to this: if you didn’t worship him before, there’s no reason you’d worship him after it has been proven he exists because to someone who worships this would be something they “knew” all along.

Adding conclusion to my great run-on sentence I believe that if there is a god and if it were proven he exists, I would under no circumstance forfeit my life to his will just so he can enjoy himself; he has his own life I assume, if he wants to be a saint that’s good on him, but I for one will be having sex and taking every anti-baby-making precaution that is necessary, I will be lazy because some days I just don’t feel productive, I swear when appropriate (which sometimes is always) and I even have a sense of humor, which as I understand from my religious relatives must be a cardinal sin.

If the truth is that we all will burn in hell for not groveling at the feet of a divine tyrant who demands it or he will send us to the corner (AKA hell) for time out (time = eternity) I’m willing to bet he’s not a very great being to begin with since I’m also not very forgiving but I wouldn’t damn someone to a million lifetimes of eternal hellfire because they didn’t do what I asked.

And even if I did burn in hell, I’d get used to it because honestly how long can you be burned before it just becomes boring, the whips stop hurting, and the barbed wire being wrapped around your arms and legs start to tickle?

 

[lukewarm]

HREH,

You seem pretty angry at a God you don’t believe exists…

 

[jlucko]

Hreh,
I don’t think you have a full appreciation of what the Christian faith teaches. Do you consider yourself open minded? (By open minded I mean someone who looks at both sides of an issue before making a decision.) If you do, I highly recommend that you take the time to read C.S. Lewis’ Mere Christianity. It will help you gain understanding of the other side of the story.

P.S.- sometimes it is hard to tell when reading on the internet, so I wanted to make clear that nothing in this post is condisending or judgemental. Its just that judgeing from your email you don’t have a good understanding of Christianity and what it teaches.

 

[cheddarsox]

who’s god? which god?

some gods that I have heard of don’t seem worthy of worship.

 

[Mirdath]

I would respect that deity without question – after all, we’re talking about the supreme being here.

Worship is different. Is this deity worthy of worship? Does it even want to be worshiped, or care if I don’t?

 

[perladow]

I’ll go with the God Catholics believe in, since it’s a Catholic message board.

 

[perladow]

I would respect that deity without question – after all, we’re talking about the supreme being here.

Worship is different. Is this deity worthy of worship? Does it even want to be worshiped, or care if I don’t?

let’s suppose it’s just as it is in the Bible, to simplify it.

 

[Hreh]

HREH,

You seem pretty angry at a God you don’t believe exists…

I was also rather upset with Scar after he killed Mufasa in The Lion King but that doesn’t precisely mean I acknowledge him as actually having existed.

Please use intelligence in the future and I truly hope it will serve you well. Go forth, young cadet.

 

[lukewarm]

I was also rather upset with Scar after he killed Mufasa in The Lion King but that doesn’t precisely mean I acknowledge him as actually having existed.

Please use intelligence in the future and I truly hope it will serve you well. Go forth, young cadet.

???

How were you upset at a cartoon character? That’s ridiculous… Almost as ridiculous as being upset at a God you don’t believe in.

I’ve met different types of atheists, the ones that simply don’t believe at least have the courage of their convictions. The ones that foam at the mouth at a God and Bible they supposedly don’t believe in make no sense to me.

I don’t believe in Zeus or Vishnu you won’t catch me lambasting Zeus for smiting Greeks with lightning bolts…

 

[perladow]

you’ve never gotten mad at movie or book characters? or feel happy for them? I’ve bawled when book characters have died and I obviously didn’t believe in them.

 

[Mirdath]

let’s suppose it’s just as it is in the Bible, to simplify it.

Old Testament or New? They’re pretty different. Sometimes I think the gnostics might’ve had it right on the whole Demiurge thing.

 

[Hreh]

I’m sorry, then you must have misread my post or read it slowly. If it helps get my point across you may want to read all of what I’ve said so far in the quick run-on nature I type it in with just a hint of sarcasm and lightheartedness, and you’ll see I’m not angry at all. I’m simply poking at the supposed characteristics of most people’s idea of what god is, though if you interpret that as anger then I’m afraid I can’t fix that for you. You may have a misconception that everyone else here posts in all dead seriousness and while I do believe everything I say I also prefer to present it in a way that won’t bore people, which I seem to have a knack for accomplishing. If you interpret that as anger then I can only say your interpretation was wrong and you’re rather correct that it’d be silly to be angry at something that doesn’t exist, and in fact if I harbor any anger it’s at the fictional character known as god and his written behavior, since I am not one of those aforementioned lifeless drones (aforementioned in a separate topic) and have emotion and can even get my emotional strings plucked at an old Disney movie featuring talking lions it wouldn’t be so awkward to be able to speak in a disappointed way about another character I perceive to be fictional, correct?

We can just leave it at that and upon my return I will be graced by cherry blossom petals and the smell of manly musk and a crowd of seals wearing British police uniforms and we can talk more about this, good sir.

 

[lukewarm]

I’m sorry, then you must have misread my post or read it slowly. If it helps get my point across you may want to read all of what I’ve said so far in the quick run-on nature I type it in with just a hint of sarcasm and lightheartedness, and you’ll see I’m not angry at all. I’m simply poking at the supposed characteristics of most people’s idea of what god is, though if you interpret that as anger then I’m afraid I can’t fix that for you. You may have a misconception that everyone else here posts in all dead seriousness and while I do believe everything I say I also prefer to present it in a way that won’t bore people, which I seem to have a knack for accomplishing. If you interpret that as anger then I can only say your interpretation was wrong and you’re rather correct that it’d be silly to be angry at something that doesn’t exist, and in fact if I harbor any anger it’s at the fictional character known as god and his written behavior, since I am not one of those aforementioned lifeless drones (aforementioned in a separate topic) and have emotion and can even get my emotional strings plucked at an old Disney movie featuring talking lions it wouldn’t be so awkward to be able to speak in a disappointed way about another character I perceive to be fictional, correct?

We can just leave it at that and upon my return I will be graced by cherry blossom petals and the smell of manly musk and a crowd of seals wearing British police uniforms and we can talk more about this, good sir.

LOL I couldn’t read this I have a smug blocker on my PC… You may need to tone down the smug to at least a level 7 before my PC will allow it.

 

[cheddarsox]

I’ll go with the God Catholics believe in, since it’s a Catholic message board.

that’s a tough one, I’ll have to think about it. I once did worship that God, without knowing if He existed.

If someone could prove that He is the supreme being, the everlasting, in charge of everything, then I guess I would believe.
But I’ve gotten to a point that I can’t force myself to worship, worship is an automatic reaction to something, the thing draws worship out of me, so I can’t know that I could muster up worship if the thing didn’t invoke a worship response.

I do worship, but not technically a “god”, I belong to a non theistic religion (a Divine, but no Divine being). After experiencing what I have, it would be hard for me to go back.

 

[nichjake]

I would loathe to worship anything. If god were proven to exist I might then believe in god but I highly doubt that would lead to worship.

 

[perladow]

uhhhhhh…

how could you still deny God if it was proven to you to be true without a doubt? what I’m asking is if you’d change the way you live and do as God wanted, knowing with absolute certainty that you’d go to hell otherwise?

 

[Mirdath]

The God of the Bible, huh… tricky.

First off, God’s presented in two very different lights in the Bible – first as a nationalist, wrathful, jealous commander, then as a loving father. I do not think I could bring myself to worship the former, so let’s proceed with the latter and ignore just how inconsistent that looks to anyone who believes the two are one and the same (sometimes I think the gnostics may have been on to something with the whole Demiurge concept).

So, the merciful but just Father of the New Testament. Taking him at face value, I quite possibly could. ‘God loves you, so love him and one another’ – I can get behind that. But once again, the Problem of Evil rears its ugly head.

Evil exists, Catholics would have it, for two primary purposes (more or less): to prove our faith in the forge of hardship and to better order and demonstrate the Goodness of God. But in this case, there is no such thing as faith anymore: we know God exists. So the first reason is out.

We also know, at this point, that God is all-Good. There is no need to throw Good into sharper relief; and any Evil is then a useless and counterproductive destruction. It is not evil for the sake of showing the good, it is evil for the sake of evil. And as the Angelic Doctor points out, ‘there is no one first principle of evil’ (Summa 1.49.3).

So we are left with a conundrum: God exists, but he is either not omnipotent or not omnibenevolent. If not omnipotent, he is not a truly supreme being and therefore not worthy of worship. If not omnibenevolent – well, actually, I could see myself getting along with that, perhaps, so long as God isn’t outright malevolent.

 

[cheddarsox]

uhhhhhh…

how could you still deny God if it was proven to you to be true without a doubt? what I’m asking is if you’d change the way you live and do as God wanted, knowing with absolute certainty that you’d go to hell otherwise?

If that is what you were asking maybe you should have said that as opposed to worship

 

[jimmy85]

uhhhhhh…

how could you still deny God if it was proven to you to be true without a doubt? what I’m asking is if you’d change the way you live and do as God wanted, knowing with absolute certainty that you’d go to hell otherwise?

I dont think that you will go to hell if you dont workship God even if you are aware that he exist.
It is nonsense to say that, because there about 2 billion christians and many dont practice their faith at all, but they acknowledge the existens of God.