Question for one-issue voters

  • Thread starter Thread starter seeker63
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
seeker63 said:
*Personally, I see it as standing up for what is right. I think if a person does not have a basic respect for human life, their judgement in all other areas is suspect. This is probably overly simplistic, but when weighing my options in the last presidential election, it came down to one thing–who more greatly respects the right to life. I don’t intend to take this off-topic, but I personally feel that a person that supports the death penalty is not pro-life. Neither Bush nor Kerry is truly pro-life in my eyes, but I felt that at least in the case of the death penalty, these are people who at least had a chance at life, they weren’t killed in the womb. So, I voted for Bush. I can’t in good conscience vote for a person who supports abortion.

*And my deal, Aurora, is I don’t believe any of them are being up-front. a politician can talk and talk and still never actually intend to do anything about the issue. When someone nags me, for instance, and I either say nothing or just and and say, “Yeah” or “Uh huh,” that doesn’t mean I’m agreeing with them or that I’m gonna do what they want. I’m usually just trying to move things along so they’ll shut up. My experience with politicians is that they’ll say anything to make the constituent walk away feeling satisfied. No politician is going to really stick his neck out and do anything that’s too unpopular.
Click to expand...

I agree. The money and power connections needed to be president of this country require a great deal of comprimise. I don’t think any of these guys have any integrity at all. They may have cared at one point, had ideals, but they long ago realized that to stay in power they had to play the game - and the rich and powerful simply do not give a damn about the rest of us. And pro-life means all life - not just the innocent or people you like. That was Jesus’ point (even the Pharisees do this). As for abortion, we need to decrease demand while we’re waiting for someone to do something. Help those poor black and Hispanic women with no money or insurance. Get down in the trenches, don’t just vote every 4 years.
 
I haven’t had time to read all the responses.
Without the right to life- all other issues are meaninless- it is the FIRST right. The above poster who said that if a politician doesn’t respect the right to life they are suspect on other issues is correct, IMO.
I think the tide is slowly turning pro-life, it’s hard for us to see.
The younger generation is becoming more pro-life, anyone born after 1973 knows but by the grace of God it could’ve been them.
I don’t think abortion is the knee-jerk answer to an unplanned pregancy that is was in the 1970’s. though it still happens.
Remember the sitcom Maude where she decides to have an abortion to an unplanned preganancy? Somehow I don’t think that kind of episode would be made today.
I think ultrasounds, debate about partial birth abortion, Unborn victims of violence acts, laws against taking minors across state lines, parental consent, ect. HAVE made a difference in the public concienseness,maybe they haven’t stopped abortion- but people have to think about it.
 
seeker63 said:
*Personally, I see it as standing up for what is right. I think if a person does not have a basic respect for human life, their judgement in all other areas is suspect. This is probably overly simplistic, but when weighing my options in the last presidential election, it came down to one thing–who more greatly respects the right to life. I don’t intend to take this off-topic, but I personally feel that a person that supports the death penalty is not pro-life. Neither Bush nor Kerry is truly pro-life in my eyes, but I felt that at least in the case of the death penalty, these are people who at least had a chance at life, they weren’t killed in the womb. So, I voted for Bush. I can’t in good conscience vote for a person who supports abortion.

*And my deal, Aurora, is I don’t believe any of them are being up-front. a politician can talk and talk and still never actually intend to do anything about the issue. When someone nags me, for instance, and I either say nothing or just and and say, “Yeah” or “Uh huh,” that doesn’t mean I’m agreeing with them or that I’m gonna do what they want. I’m usually just trying to move things along so they’ll shut up. My experience with politicians is that they’ll say anything to make the constituent walk away feeling satisfied. No politician is going to really stick his neck out and do anything that’s too unpopular.
Click to expand...

I agree that it can be hard to tell if a pro-life (or any for that matter) politician is truly genuine in his beliefs. They way I look at it is this:

Say you have two candidates one anti-abortion and one pro-abortion. We can fairly say that one who is pro-abortion has a deeply flawed view of reality. Indeed I would say that this flaw is utterly ruinous of the person’s character. In short, they cannot be relied upon to promote the common good. On the other hand, the anti-abortion candidate MIGHT not be totally flawed. He MAY be, but we don’t have anywhere near the certainty that we have with the pro-abortion candidate.

So, we have two candidates - one deeply flawed and one who “might be” flawed. I think it is definitely prudent to choose the candidate who may actually be of good character, the anti-abortion candidate.

On another note, I find the Judie Brown voting theory to be largely ineffective in electing good politicians who will change the law. We can’t hold our breath waiting for a perfect candidate who will immediately return all laws to justice. We need to fight the battle inch by inch and in time, win.
 
said:
I agree. I keep trying to say this to some of my friends who refuse to vote or will only vote for 100% (no exceptions) pro life candidate. I believe in no exceptions either- I would like to see abortion completly outlawed- but- maybe they don’t stop all abortuin but-
The UVVA, Partial birth abortion bans, Parental consent laws, ect really educate the puble as to what happens in an abortion and how outrageous the pro-abortion position really is- so people see how extreme the pro-aborts really are. This causes them to think about what it really is and is why I think the country is becomming more pro-life.
Click to expand...
 
40.png
seeker63:
Once people have things the “easy” way, they’re not gonna go back. The time to close the barn door is not after the horse has run out. Culture tends away from morality and towards license, and it calls that license by the misnomer of “freedom.”
Click to expand...
I wonder where you get the idea that it is the easy way out. Ask one of us women who had abortions if it really is the easy way out. It just creates more problems. I will fight until my dying day to see abortion eliminated. It is the worst think second to contraception that has ever happen to women. There are more and more post abortive women who are silent no more. We will be the people who will end abortion.

I love people who think the most destructive thing on Earth is the easiest. Walk a mile in my shoes before you say that. I am still a mother but with dead children I will never get to see. I wasn’t the one who wanted the abortion but I was the one who got it. I can still feel the evil of the clinic where you are handled like a piece of meat. As long as they get their money they don’t care.

SO DON’T TELL ME NOT TO BE A ONE ISSUE VOTER. SHOW ME A MORE ANTI CIVIL RIGHTS LAW THAN ABORTION.

If you don’t have the right to life the other right mean nothing.
 
Originally Posted by seeker63
**Personally, I see it as standing up for what is right. I think if a person does not have a basic respect for human life, their judgement in all other areas is suspect. This is probably overly simplistic, but when weighing my options in the last presidential election, it came down to one thing–who more greatly respects the right to life. I don’t intend to take this off-topic, but I personally feel that a person that supports the death penalty is not pro-life. Neither Bush nor Kerry is truly pro-life in my eyes, but I felt that at least in the case of the death penalty, these are people who at least had a chance at life, they weren’t killed in the womb. So, I voted for Bush. I can’t in good conscience vote for a person who supports abortion.

*And my deal, Aurora, is I don’t believe any of them are being up-front. a politician can talk and talk and still never actually intend to do anything about the issue. When someone nags me, for instance, and I either say nothing or just and and say, “Yeah” or “Uh huh,” that doesn’t mean I’m agreeing with them or that I’m gonna do what they want. I’m usually just trying to move things along so they’ll shut up. My experience with politicians is that they’ll say anything to make the constituent walk away feeling satisfied. No politician is going to really stick his neck out and do anything that’s too unpopular.

FYI–The first paragraph here was written by Plal/Aurora and the second by me. I pasted her comment and put it in italics, but as the thread grew I got both paragraphs attributed to me. I wanted to make that clear because I did not vote for Bush. Or Kerry, for that matter.
*
 
I wonder where you get the idea that it is the easy way out. Ask one of us women who had abortions if it really is the easy way out. It just creates more problems. I will fight until my dying day to see abortion eliminated. It is the worst think second to contraception that has ever happen to women. There are more and more post abortive women who are silent no more. We will be the people who will end abortion.

I love people who think the most destructive thing on Earth is the easiest. Walk a mile in my shoes before you say that. I am still a mother but with dead children I will never get to see. I wasn’t the one who wanted the abortion but I was the one who got it. I can still feel the evil of the clinic where you are handled like a piece of meat. As long as they get their money they don’t care.

SO DON’T TELL ME NOT TO BE A ONE ISSUE VOTER. SHOW ME A MORE ANTI CIVIL RIGHTS LAW THAN ABORTION.

If you don’t have the right to life the other right mean nothing.

***MommaKat, please notice that I put the word “easy” in quotations. Most of the people I know who favor abortion do indeed view it as a solution to a problem. They think it’s easier to have the procedure than have the kid, raise him ,etc. They see it as a quick fix.

I knew a couple who had an abortion while they were in college because they didn’t think it was a good time for them to deal with school and a baby at the same time. It was seen by them as a question of convenience versus inconvenience. And it seems pretty obvious that a lot of pro-abortion people feel the same way.

Similarly, sexual morality of any kind is regarded as more “difficult” or “constraining,” and because we are a culture that worships convenience, I seriously doubt Americans will willingly accept what they regard as a “difficult” option when an “easier” one is available.

My point is not that I think abortion is the “easy” solution, but that those who favor it certainly do.

Please read my whole posting next time before you attack me. **
 
Seeker,
I certainly understand your pessimism and frustration with politicians of all stripes. But, IMHO, I get the feeling that you run the risk of a “why bother” attitude, because of a lack of success so far. I am reminded of when Mother Teresa was asked by a reporter if she really thought her work was making a difference in eliminating hunger…she replied…and I’m paraphrasing here…that we aren’t called to be “successful”…we are called to be “obedient.” I always loved that statement. We need to always strive to do the right thing…regardless of the odds…and leave the rest to God. I also believe, particularly with the young…that taking this strong stand for life is helping to mold good consciences in the next generation…one life saved through all our efforts makes all our efforts worthwhile. Don’t give up!

byHis Grace,

After 25 years of working in politics, mostly GOP politics, at city, county, state, and national levels, you better bet I have a “why bother” attitude. I am unshakably convinced that the system doesn’t work at all. I feel when I vote for a third party candidate just as useless as when I don’t vote at all. It’s a fixed horse race.

It’s just like the friends I have who are Grammy voters. Every year the Academy sends them pre-made ballots with a narrow group to vote on. They never get to vote for musicians they might actually like or consider deserving because the Academy and the record companies has already decided that stuff in advance.

And I don’t see much difference with our system. How is this a democracy when the result is pretty much fixed? I mean, most media outlets have pretty much given the White House to Hillary Clinton in 2008 already.
 
I know a lot of people who are either on the fence on the issue of abortion, or who claim to be in favor of it but could be persuaded to think otherwise. And I know that in the attitude of these people, there are aspects of the anti-abortion movement that are the cause’s worst enemy.

Obviously people who blow up clinics and kill abortion doctors give the movement a reputation as a place for crazies. But so also do people who flash around disgusting photos of aborted fetuses and so forth. Yes, the abortionists are the ones making the mess, but I don’t think you’re going to win anyone over by grossing them out either, or screaming at them.

(Just as you’re not going to get people to come to Jesus by standing out in the middle of Bourbon Street during Mardi Gras with a big cross, trying to embarrass drunk people into converting. We need to employ some common sense understanding of human nature and what attracts and repels people. Just because you feel you’re arguing from the moral high ground is not enough.)

And I know a lot of people who are annoyed at anti-abortion protestors because they think the protestors are “sticking their noses in other peoples’s business.” **(AND FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, I am not the one saying these things–I am the one conveying to you that people on the fence are thinking these things. So don’t kill the messenger!)

**I just don’t think out-screaming the opposition is going to do much good in the long- or short-run. I don’t think abortion will disappear from America unless there is a comprehensive, across-the-board sea-change in American values, and that will not happen quickly, or loudly, and it will certainly not happen if we entrust our government in the hands of politicians who talk in an empty way of “family values.” And anyway, a vast change in American morality wouldn’t be brought about by politicians. The sexual revolution and all the movements of the 60s did not spring forth out of politics. If Roe versus Wade was outlawed tomorrow by the stroke of a pen, the problem would by no means be over as long as the people were convinced abortion was something they wanted handy and available.
 
What I’m saying is that if we’re really going to accomplish anything here, and especially win over the people who are on the fence, we’re going to have to work on them, with subtlety and finesse, not a sledgehammer, shouting, and acting extreme.

Yes, this is an extreme moral issue, but acting like crazed fanatics will not win this fight. It will just set us up so the other side can make us look foolish, so they can discredit us further, and perception means everything in this society.
 
Well, you know what? I had an aboriton too and I didn’t not do it because it was the easy way out. I did it because the man who was the father, who had insisted he wanted the baby told me I was on my own. I did it because I was so sick 24/7 that all I could do was lie very still (I have since learned that this is a rare medical condition that is something like a woman’s body being allergic to the baby - I read this in a recent publication by American Life League). I couldn’t eat, work, etc… So I was dropping weight fast, had no money/job/insurance. I was sick and scared. My mom worked her butt off as a single mom and the idea scared me to death. I also suffer from clinical depression. So I had an abortion. That was 20 years ago and I’m still not over it. Don’t generalize about those of us who have felt we had no choice.

And let me specify upfront that I am pro-life. But ending abortion is more complex than simply making it illegal. Lost of things are illegal but they still go on. Supply and demand. In speaking with those who do pregnancy counseling to those with an unexpected pregnancy, I have heard that most women who decide on abortion feel they have no choice. They have no money/job/insurance. If they have a job, they most probably will lose it if they have to take off work for pregnancy related reasons. Some can’t afford decent pre-natal care to ensure they have a healthy baby. There has to be more more to pro-life legislation than simply the illegalization of abortion. People who are desperate will still find a way to get one. What we need to do is address the reasons those women are so desperate. Legislate decent pre-natal health care for low income women, provide more decent low income houseing, require employers to offer insurance and pay a living wage, clean up the streets so these women aren’t constantly living in fear for themselves and thier children. Do these things, and abortion will go down. If you really care about women and their kids, realize there is no quick fix. The constant cutting of social programs that these people depend on directly affects the demand for abortion. Put your money where your mouth is and look for a real solution.
 
Because when I die and stand before God, I want to be able to say “I stood up for life as You requsted Lord”, not “bah, it was a losing cause anyway, nothing was going to change…”

Enough for me.
 
Well, feeling warm and fuzzy and morally superior is all well and good, but if there is no real progress on this issue, it makes sense to me to not devote 100% of your time on something that hasn’t really budged in 30 years, and devote a percentage of time to deal with other ills where we can make some inroads, such as poverty, hunger, etc. I’m not saying to give up the fight to end abortion by any means, but I doubt there will be any major changes in our lifetimes.

I was not generalizing about women who get abortions, only saying that among the people I know who are more less in favor of abortion, they see it as any easy way out, and many more see it as a feminist issue (that “my body is my own” kinda nonsense), that abortion is a tool for female liberation. ** I DON’T AGREE WITH THAT**.

Koda wrote:

Lost of things are illegal but they still go on. Supply and demand. In speaking with those who do pregnancy counseling to those with an unexpected pregnancy, I have heard that most women who decide on abortion feel they have no choice. They *have no money/job/insurance. If they have a job, they most probably will lose it if they have to take off work for pregnancy related reasons. Some can’t afford decent pre-natal care to ensure they have a healthy baby. There has to be more more to pro-life legislation than simply the illegalization of abortion. People who are desperate will still find a way to get one. What we need to do is address the reasons those women are so desperate. Legislate decent pre-natal health care for low income women, provide more decent low income houseing, require employers to offer insurance and pay a living wage, clean up the streets so these women aren’t constantly living in fear for themselves and thier children. Do these things, and abortion will go down.

*I totally agree. All these things and more have to be changed before women, especially poor women, will be convinced that abortion is not the answer. We need to demand accountability from our politicians. We need to demand politicians who work on the big things instead of trying to satisfy us with minor, unimportant “bread-and-circuses” accomplishments. I just don’t know of any politicians anywhere who are capable of spear-heading the things we need done.
 
We’re supposed to be here to do God’s will. If we get to the point that we think it’s pretty hopeless, think about Jesus crying over Jerusalem. He knew how hopeless it was, and yet He went through with his passion. Some one said that we don’t need to see the results, we just have to be obedient. It’s not our job, it’s God’s. Look at the Crucifix and join your frustrations to His.

God bless you
 
40.png
koda:
Well, you know what? I had an aboriton too and I didn’t not do it because it was the easy way out. I did it because the man who was the father, who had insisted he wanted the baby told me I was on my own. I did it because I was so sick 24/7 that all I could do was lie very still (I have since learned that this is a rare medical condition that is something like a woman’s body being allergic to the baby - I read this in a recent publication by American Life League). I couldn’t eat, work, etc… So I was dropping weight fast, had no money/job/insurance. I was sick and scared. My mom worked her butt off as a single mom and the idea scared me to death. I also suffer from clinical depression. So I had an abortion. That was 20 years ago and I’m still not over it. Don’t generalize about those of us who have felt we had no choice.

And let me specify upfront that I am pro-life. But ending abortion is more complex than simply making it illegal. Lost of things are illegal but they still go on. Supply and demand. In speaking with those who do pregnancy counseling to those with an unexpected pregnancy, I have heard that most women who decide on abortion feel they have no choice. They have no money/job/insurance. If they have a job, they most probably will lose it if they have to take off work for pregnancy related reasons. Some can’t afford decent pre-natal care to ensure they have a healthy baby. There has to be more more to pro-life legislation than simply the illegalization of abortion. People who are desperate will still find a way to get one. What we need to do is address the reasons those women are so desperate. Legislate decent pre-natal health care for low income women, provide more decent low income houseing, require employers to offer insurance and pay a living wage, clean up the streets so these women aren’t constantly living in fear for themselves and thier children. Do these things, and abortion will go down. If you really care about women and their kids, realize there is no quick fix. The constant cutting of social programs that these people depend on directly affects the demand for abortion. Put your money where your mouth is and look for a real solution.
Click to expand...
I do not understand your position – “we should not make abortion illegal because people will continue to do it anyhow”

This is a ridiculous position. By taking this position then we should legalize rape and all drugs because people are going to do it anyhow. If fact, why make anything illegal, let’s just get rid of government??
 
I am a one-issue voter, and my issue is upholding and defending the Constitution of the United States, which all elected and appointed officials affirm by oath. In denying the right to life in a series of USSC decisions beginning in 1973, and subsequent federal court decisions and various administrative actions, judges and legislators have been systematically dismantling the critical bases rights protected (not granted) by our Constitution.

Anyone running for office who condones these actions cannot in conscience be swearing to uphold the Constitution and therefore should not be allowed to hold public office.

I am a single issue voter now.
I would be a single issue voter in 1860 over slavery, and all the shameful history of legislation and court decisions that protected that institution.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top