Question for Orthodox

[Paul_theApostle]

If the Bread used in the Eucharist becomes no longer Bread but Christs Body,whats the difference if is has yeast or not,or Does Christs body contain yeast when it become Himself?

 

[josephdaniel29]

If the Bread used in the Eucharist becomes no longer Bread but Christs Body,whats the difference if is has yeast or not,or Does Christs body contain yeast when it become Himself?

Wow, no wonder you’re confused.

Yours in Christ
Joe

 

[Alethiaphile]

If the Bread used in the Eucharist becomes no longer Bread but Christs Body,whats the difference if is has yeast or not,or Does Christs body contain yeast when it become Himself?

First of all, Orthodoxy does not teach that the entire substance of the bread and wine becomes “converted into” the Body and Blood of Christ so that the bread and wine no longer exist (except as “accidents”) as the western Church has taught since 1215. Orthodox Christians are free to believe (although are not required to) that the Bod yand Blood of Christ can exist in and with the bread and wine, just as St. Irenaeus, among others in the early Church, taught. What is crucial is the Real Presence of the Body and Blood of Christ.

Second, and more to your question, it isn’t a matter of whether yeast “remains”, it is a matter of the appropriate elements to use for the Eucharist. Would you use cookies and lemonade for the Eucharist?

 

[Madaglan]

First of all, Orthodoxy does not teach that the entire substance of the bread and wine becomes “converted into” the Body and Blood of Christ so that the bread and wine no longer exist (except as “accidents”) as the western Church has taught since 1215. Orthodox Christians are free to believe (although are not required to) that the Bod yand Blood of Christ can exist in and with the bread and wine, just as St. Irenaeus, among others in the early Church, taught. What is crucial is the Real Presence of the Body and Blood of Christ.

Second, and more to your question, it isn’t a matter of whether yeast “remains”, it is a matter of the appropriate elements to use for the Eucharist. Would you use cookies and lemonade for the Eucharist?

The Epiklesis of the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom:

And make this bread the precious Body of Your Christ; And that which is in this chalice the precious Blood of Your Christ; Changing them by Your Holy Spirit.

Orthodox understand that that which was bread and wine becomes the Body and Blood. The Orthodox Church does not understand, as do the Lutherans, a sacramental union in which bread co-exists with Body, wine with Blood, in the Eucharist. The Orthodox believe there is a change, that the gifts no longer remain bread and wine, even though they still look like bread and wine. It’s a mystery.

 

[Alethiaphile]

The Epiklesis of the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom:
Orthodox understand that that which was bread and wine becomes the Body and Blood. The Orthodox Church does not understand, as do the Lutherans, a sacramental union in which bread co-exists with Body, wine with Blood, in the Eucharist. The Orthodox believe there is a change, that the gifts no longer remain bread and wine, even though they still look like bread and wine. It’s a mystery.

Nothing in the Epiklesis contradicts what I said. The Gifts are changed into the Body and Blood of Christ by the Holy Spirit. That doesn’t mean that the Gifts do not also remain in a sense (more than just appearance) bread and wine, just as Christ was both truly God and truly Man. That is what St. Irenaeus explicitly taught.

 

[Lead_Me_Home]

The Catholic Church teaches that the Bread becomes literally the Body of the Lord under the sacramental veil. After the Bread and Wine are consecrated, they are not seen as the “Body of Christ and bread,” but that by the power of the Holy Spirit the consecrated bread is the REAL BODY of the Lord. Accidents are the appearances which remain, like a flaky host which is still flaky after it is consecrated.

For more info look up TRANSUBSTANTIATION

 

[Paul_theApostle]

Just say an Orthodox Priest were to have a Breath test to test alchohol in his blood,would there be any reading you think after he has drunk from the Chalice?

If there would be a reading,wouldnt that show its still in the form of Wine as well as Christ?

 

[Alethiaphile]

Just say an Orthodox Priest were to have a Breath test to test alchohol in his blood,would there be any reading you think after he has drunk from the Chalice?

If there would be a reading,wouldnt that show its still in the form of Wine as well as Christ?

The response will be that the alcohol in the priest’s blood is also an “accident”. What becomes apparent is that every meaningful characteristic of the consecrated elements has to be classified as “accidents” and “substance” becomes an empty concept.

 

[josephdaniel29]

The response will be that the alcohol in the priest’s blood is also an “accident”. What becomes apparent is that every meaningful characteristic of the consecrated elements has to be classified as “accidents” and “substance” becomes an empty concept.

I’m trying to understand what difference it makes. The bread and wine truly become the Body and Blood of Christ. What more do we need to know?

Yours in Christ
Joe

 

[Paul_theApostle]

I’m trying to understand what difference it makes. The bread and wine truly become the Body and Blood of Christ. What more do we need to know?

Yours in Christ
Joe

Im questioning on the issue as of what some Orthodox were saying here disputing whether bread and wine are still present or if its totally Christs Body/Blood

There are instances where souls have seen inside the Chalice to see actual Flesh and Blood

But Christ allows it to have the appearance of Bread and Wine so it would be more comfortable for us to eat rather then seeing raw flesh and blood before our eyes.

 

[josephdaniel29]

Im questioning on the issue as of what some Orthodox were saying here disputing whether bread and wine are still present or if its totally Christs Body/Blood

Yet again I ask. What difference does it make? It is truly the Body and Blood of Christ. Speculation on chemistry is irrelevant, may belie a lack of faith and may be an occasion to sin.

Yours in Christ
Joe

 

[Paul_theApostle]

Yet again I ask. What difference does it make? It is truly the Body and Blood of Christ. Speculation on chemistry is irrelevant, may belie a lack of faith and may be an occasion to sin.

Yours in Christ
Joe

My OP is regarding leveaned/unleavened bread and the yeast which leavened bread contains for the bread to rise

 

[Madaglan]

Just say an Orthodox Priest were to have a Breath test to test alchohol in his blood,would there be any reading you think after he has drunk from the Chalice?

If there would be a reading,wouldnt that show its still in the form of Wine as well as Christ?

Orthodox do not deny that the Eucharist is in the form of bread and wine (it looks, smells and tastes like it). An Orthodox can pull out a microscope and look at the cellular level of the Eucharist. This does not change the fact that the Eucharist is the Bread and Body.

I believe that, after consumption, there is some point at which the Eucharist ceases to be the Body and Blood. Once the Eucharist ceases to have the appearance of Bread and Wine, I do not believe it to continue to be the Eucharist.

 

[Madaglan]

My OP is regarding leveaned/unleavened bread and the yeast which leavened bread contains for the bread to rise

Yeast is not required for the change to take place. The change happens not because of the bread or yeast but because of the action of the Holy Spirit called upon to change the gifts to Body and Blood.

 

[prodromos]

If the Bread used in the Eucharist becomes no longer Bread but Christs Body,whats the difference if is has yeast or not,or Does Christs body contain yeast when it become Himself?

The use of leavened bread is for theological reasons. That is why Rome changing to unleavened bread caused such contraversy. It indicated that their theology had changed.

John