Question For Protestants (if any are here)

[AugustTherese]

If you’re not [Republican], and you are [a member of a political party], you are [a Democrat]. If you do not like the label of [‘Democrat’], then do not be one.

Except, there is the Independent party, so that logic falls through.

If you’re not [Muslim], and you are [religious], you are [an infidel]. If you do not like the label of [‘infidel’], then do not be one

This one is a little better, however, not all Muslim all Shia, in fact most are Sunni. The logic is here is improving slightly, but still needs a little work.

If you’re not [a Planned Parenthood supporter], and you are [an American], you are [a woman-hater]. If you do not like the label of [‘woman-hater’], then do not be one

No offense, but this non sequitir does not flow. It’s those who wittingly protest Planned Parenthood that are subsequently labeled a possible ‘woman-hater’, not those who simply do not support PP through indifference.

If you’re not [a Capitalist], and you [have views on economies], you are [a Communist]. If you do not like the label of [‘Communist’], then do not be one

Hmmmm, so I cannot be a Socialist? Kind of like I cannot be associated with the Independent political party?

If you’re not [a Black Lives Matter supporter], and you are [American], you are [racist]. If you do not like the label of [‘racist’], then do not be one.

This is your best one. However, like your PP example, anyone can be indifferent towards the Black Lives movement; it is those who vehemently protest the movement who are impusively labeled ‘racist’.

Look, the term ‘Protestant’ might have some usefulness as an arbitrary descriptor of a grouping of people, but it has zero use whatsoever as a specific theological identifier

That’s what the term ‘Protestant’ is used for. How else could anyone group 30,000+ denominations that protest Apostolic truths? Yes, a Lutheran is not a Baptist, and a Methodist is not a Quaker; but, when the Lutheran, Baptist, Methodist and Quaker all share in one common invisible bond, being separate from the Mystical Body of Christ (not in full communion), it is more pragmatic to label these Christians as Protestant, instead of having to write out 30,000+ denominations.

One could similarly group cats, zebras, turtles and amoebas together and arbitrarily call them ‘Zorgs.’ Cool. Now you can identify an arbitrary group

Exactly! When you have a zoo of 30,000+ sects that all protest the Catholic Faith in one way or another, they belong in the zoo of Protestantism. @steido01, why don’t you just cross the Tiber, I’ll throw you a buoy!

 

[AugustTherese]

This sort of argument might score talking points on the vainglorious triumphalist scoreboard, but its logic is faulty. It’s the False Dilemma Fallacy.

“A false dilemma is a type of informal fallacy in which something is falsely claimed to be an “either/or” situation, when in fact there is at least one additional option.”

Catholicism, Orthodoxy, and Protestantism do not fall into the “either/or” situation.

If I was to say one is either Catholic or Protestant, then you would have judged correctly as that is an “either/or situation, when in fact there is at least one additional option, [viz. Orthodoxy]”.

 

[JonNC]

I can’t obviously talk about the thousands protestants sects, but I’ve dealt with pentecostals from many branches and reformed baptists and presbyterians

It could be said that none of these are Protestants. They were not at or party to the formal protest.

 

[JonNC]

If you’re not Catholic or Orthodox, and you are a baptized Christian, you are a Protestant. If you do not like the label of ‘Protestant’, then do not be one.

Confirming how utterly worthless a term it is.
So, based on your “definition “, I am not one. I never was one, even as a Lutheran, even though Lutherans were there at the formal protest.
Then, I was an evangelical Catholic. Today I am Anglo-Catholic.

 

[AugustTherese]

So, based on your “definition “, I am not one

A Protestant?

 

[JonNC]

Catholicism, Orthodoxy, and Protestantism do not fall into the “either/or” situation.

I think you are right here. Orthodox certainly consider themselves Catholic, and I just mentioned the Catholicity of Lutherans and Anglicans. So, you’re right, it isn’t either/or.
Sometimes it’s two at once

 

[JonNC]

JonNC:

So, based on your “definition “, I am not one

A Protestant?

Did you read the post?

Yes. By the “definition “ you gave.

 

[AugustTherese]

Orthodox certainly consider themselves Catholic, and I just mentioned the Catholicity of Lutherans and Anglicans

I respect your belief of the “Catholicity of Lutherans and Anglicans”, but that sounds like the heresy of Indifferentism. How can Christians of explicit differences in their doctrine maintain “Catholicity”?

 

[JonNC]

I respect your belief of the “Catholicity of Lutherans and Anglicans”, but that sounds like the heresy of Indifferentism. How can Christians of explicit differences in their doctrine maintain “Catholicity”?

The sin of division plagues all of us. We all pray for His forgiveness for dividing His Church
That said, I don’t think it indifferentism to recognize His grace in word and sacrament in traditions I disagree with. I’m not triumphalist

 

[LostSheep7]

That’s ok, call them whatever pleases you, brother.

 

[AugustTherese]

The sin of division plagues all of us. We all pray for His forgiveness for dividing His Church

That said, I don’t think it indifferentism to recognize His grace in word and sacrament in traditions I disagree with. I’m not triumphalist

@JonNC, I completely and entirely understand where you are coming from. No one wants to be told they’re wrong, especially regarding their innermost and intimate beliefs in God. But what you have to overcome, is this seeming infatuation with this idea of “triumphalism”. It is perfectly acceptable to be included in the One Church that Christ Himself founded and not to domineer others in an exclusive, ‘I am better than you’ sort of way. I realize that many, even myself included, may, inadvertently or deliberately, give you that impression of religious narcissism. However, we are very blessed and proud of our Catholic heritage that we will defend it to the death. Moreover, we want, at least I do, literally as many souls as possible to join this One Church that Christ Himself founded.

 

[MichaelP3]

That’s what the term ‘Protestant’ is used for. How else could anyone group 30,000+ denominations that protest Apostolic truths?

Isn’t it time to let this one go? There was a thread on here a while ago about this!

 

[MichaelP3]

It could be said that none of these are Protestants. They were not at or party to the formal protest.

A certain special group of Catholics seem to always forget this. Although told so many times the history. (At least on CAF)

 

[MichaelP3]

That’s ok, call them whatever pleases you, brother

History is not THAT ambiguous to where the term came from. Please google “Protestants and Diet of Spyer” and it seems you might learn something

 

[MichaelP3]

I honestly wonder if I would be banned if I wrote a sincere message the other way around. I could but I am actually afraid to do that.

 

[JonNC]

That’s ok, call them whatever pleases you, brother.

I lean toward calling them what _they_want to be called.

 

[JonNC]

I completely and entirely understand where you are coming from. No one wants to be told they’re wrong, especially regarding their innermost and intimate beliefs in God. But what you have to overcome, is this seeming infatuation with this idea of “triumphalism”.

I’m not infatuated with it. I only mention it when someone expresses it. And some of the worst examples are not Catholic.

However, we are very blessed and proud of our Catholic heritage that we will defend it to the death.

Triumphalism is not a defense of the faith. I think, in many ways, it is contrary to it because itusurps God’s authority regarding grace and salvation.
I have tremendous respect for the Catholic Church in communion with the Bishop of Rome, and members should feel secure in God’s grace there.

 

[JonNC]

Hmmmm, so I cannot be a Socialist? Kind of like I cannot be associated with the Independent political party?

Oftentimes indistinguishable, though sometimes socialists are fascist

 

[MichaelP3]

Triumphalism is not a defense of the faith. I think, in many ways, it is contrary to it because itusurps God’s authority regarding grace and salvation.

I wanted to just like your post but this point is very important for some Catholics to grasp.

 

[LostSheep7]

Thanks for the tip, I will take a look someday