Question for Protestants - Salvation

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war_eagle said:
If you repented of your sins and were born again, why would you keep on sinning?
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So you dont sin at all?
No sins against the Ten Commandments of God
or perhaps against the 7 deadly sins…
  • gluttony , drunk,caused others to be drunk, gave liquor to those drunk, was slothful in religious exercises,was lazy and idle, was envious, was yearning for impure pleasures, have had an immoderate desire for earthly goods, have had an inordinate desire for revenge, was proud*
Everyone sins that is unless you are GOD, are you?
 
It is the content of one’s intent that matters: faith in the Gospel and repentance.
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You forgot one…

Faith, repentance and…CONVERSION. I don’t hear that from most Christians; Catholic and non-Catholic alike.
 
Wholly_Spirit said:
You forgot one…

Faith, repentance and…CONVERSION. I don’t hear that from most Christians; Catholic and non-Catholic alike.
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Faith in the Gospel and repentance necessitate conversion…but if you prefer…

…
 
war_eagle said:
If you repented of your sins and were born again, why would you keep on sinning?
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wifeandmomoftwo said:
So you dont sin at all?
No sins against the Ten Commandments of God
or perhaps against the 7 deadly sins…
  • gluttony , drunk,caused others to be drunk, gave liquor to those drunk, was slothful in religious exercises,was lazy and idle, was envious, was yearning for impure pleasures, have had an immoderate desire for earthly goods, have had an inordinate desire for revenge, was proud*
Everyone sins that is unless you are GOD, are you?
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WAR:
Did Mary sin? Is Mary God?
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Nice side step to the original question …would you care to answer it?😃
 
Atemi said:
Faith in the Gospel and repentance necessitate conversion…but if you prefer…

…
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And that’s why I added it. Being repentent doesn’t necessarily mean conversion will follow. Some sidestep this issue because they feel their sins are “covered up” anyway so the real need to convert is unneccessary because they have “faith” and nothing can take their salvation away. Repentence without conversion is an empty repentence. Everyday is a day of repentence and conversion. For that reason Christ’s Sacrifice is an ongoing Sacrifice and that’s the reason for the Mass for the continual forgiveness of our sins.
 
Asgaut said:
in fact do believe that salvation can be taken away even if you have accepted Christ as your savior, if you blaspheme (the unforgivable sin, no questions asked on that) .
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The Catholic Church teaches that the unforgivable sin is to know that Jesus is the Truth (our Savior) and reject Him anyway… and die with that sin unrepentented of…

In other words, this is the one sin that can not be forgiven in Purgatory… Only those who accept Christ can make it to Purgatory. In St. Matthew 12:32, which mentions the unforgivable sin, those who reject Christ KNOW that He is the Messiah and yet they reject Him & lead others to reject Him…
Even this sin can be forgiven, but only if repented of and expiated in THIS life… If not, it cannot be dealt with in Purgatory… as other sins can be.
 
contramundum7 said:
The Catholic Church teaches that the unforgivable sin is to know that Jesus is the Truth (our Savior) and reject Him anyway… and die with that sin unrepentented of…
In other words, this is the one sin that can not be forgiven in Purgatory…
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Um, sorry, but this is a misconception of Purgatory. Purgatory doesn’t forgive sins; the Priest does that in the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Purgatory takes care of the temporal effects/punishment due to already-forgiven sins. Purgatory cannot expiate mortal sin.
 
Singinbeauty said:
Christ says to believe in Him and we will be saved… Nothing more, nothing less.
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Actually, this is not true. Christ says that to be saved you must be baptized, you must pick up and carry your cross, you must die to yourself, you must keep His commandments, you must eat His flesh, etc…mowhere will you find that ALL you must to gain eternal life is to believe, no, not unless you take one verse out of context and cut out all the rest of what Jesus said is necessary for salvation.
 
True, very True.

Believing in Him is to believe what His Body, the Church teaches. It encompasses far more than the cliffs notes we see being taught in many churches in the past 500 years.

19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

we must obey everything Christ commanded the apostles and their successors to teach us.
 
Wholly_Spirit said:
And that’s why I added it. Being repentent doesn’t necessarily mean conversion will follow. Some sidestep this issue because they feel their sins are “covered up” anyway so the real need to convert is unneccessary because they have “faith” and nothing can take their salvation away. Repentence without conversion is an empty repentence. Everyday is a day of repentence and conversion. For that reason Christ’s Sacrifice is an ongoing Sacrifice and that’s the reason for the Mass for the continual forgiveness of our sins.
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You merely propose an oxymoron: faith and repentance without conversion of the heart.

Impossible, friend…unless you redefine both “faith” and “repentance.”

…
 
Singinbeauty said:
True, your salvation can never be TAKEN away. You can give it away for sure, but it can’t be TAKEN away…

Again, it can’t be TAKEN away but you can GIVE it away.

From my understanding there is no specific prayer. The idea is to admit to God that you are a sinner, you know it - He knows it and you are now willing to do something about it. It’s not all a bed of roses and you will sin, but as long as you are willing to go to God about it and confess it and do what you need to do to make it right, God will make your path straight again. A person who has salvation is a person who has a heart for God. That person will not and can not go out and sin continuously without feeling guilt and sadness. Such a person will go to God and admit when they have been wrong and will go get help from the church to bring themselves back to Him.

I do not believe that if you have blemishes on your record that God will automatically disqualify you from Heaven. That is not the God I know. BUT a person can admit they don’t believe in Him and forfeit their salvation.

Christ says to believe in Him and we will be saved… Nothing more, nothing less. It is the belief that gets you there. That belief will bear the fruit of good works. You can’t have a True Faith and no works. It just simply doesn’t happen. That faith without works is DEAD. So if a person says the prayer their fruit will show whether that was a profession of Faith or a profession of just doing what felt right at the time.

I hope I answered your question… I tend to rattle on… Let me know!🙂
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Well said, 🙂

Dont know if your a U2 fan but there is a line in the song Vertigo

*And though your soul

It can’t be bought

Your mind can wander*

I always thought it was a pretty good description of things.

🙂
 
Atemi said:
You merely propose an oxymoron: faith and repentance without conversion of the heart.

Impossible, friend…unless you redefine both “faith” and “repentance.”

…
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Not at all friend…“I have faith,” “I have repentence.” Empty words without conversion and conversion doesn’t automatically happen. There has to be an effort…a work (!)…in coversion.
 
Wholly_Spirit said:
Not at all friend…“I have faith,” “I have repentence.” Empty words without conversion and conversion doesn’t automatically happen. There has to be an effort…a work (!)…in coversion.
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I returned from Mass this morning (where we hear the Word of God in the Liturgy of the Word) and, ironically, the Gospel reading for the day was Matthew 3:1-12: (from KJV)

1In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, 2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.3…Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight…6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins. 7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism… **8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance **…11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: 12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

So, John is saying in vs 8 that it’s not enough to confess repentence, but to show the fruits of that repentence…conversion. Because if you don’t, in vs 12 Jesus will eventually seperate the fruitful from the fruitless. I think this substantiates my assertion that along with faith and repentence, one must show a conversion.

Protestants, as a rule, don’t like to hear this because this is a “work” and one “doesn’t need to work out their salvation,” even though Paul worked out his salvation in fear and trembling.
 
Wholly_Spirit said:
Protestants, as a rule, don’t like to hear this because this is a “work” and one “doesn’t need to work out their salvation,” even though Paul worked out his salvation in fear and trembling.
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If it helps I always took the repentance part to include conversion as you describe it.

I would have described it “well you have said sorry, now show it” not the same language but do you think its the same idea??

But like Singing said above, shes stating you do need to work it out. Im starting to suspect all us protestants do not see this the same way. I think some are this OSAS and nothing else. and others are as Singing described it and I just did.

I think of it like when we were kids, we were told to say sorry. That was never good enough, then we had to make up and go play and get along. 🙂

Come to think of it I couldnt understand anyone that said because they were saved they were off scott free, or baptisted, church member, said prayers etc etc.
 
Wholly_Spirit said:
So, John is saying in vs 8 that it’s not enough to confess repentence, but to show the fruits of that repentence…conversion.
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This is the problem.

Confessing repentance does not equal repentance. Repentance is a condition of the heart. So is faith.

Professions and confessions are not equivelent to what they profess and confess.

I agree with you ultimately, but you confuse the profession of a thing for the thing itself.

…
 
Atemi said:
Confessing repentance does not equal repentance. Repentance is a condition of the heart. So is faith…
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That’s what I’ve been trying to convey…confessing does not equal repentance. If repentence is solely a condition of the heart, than how can that be proved?..a conversion of the heart away from the occasion of sin, and that can only be accomplished with the grace of God through the saving blood of Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross.
**
Professions and confessions are not equivelent to what they profess and confess
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.**
Professions? That’s Protestant terminology with which I have absolutely no acquaintence with, and with that in mind…
I agree with you
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  • ultimately, but you confuse the profession of a thing for the thing itself.**
    …I do confuse profession vs. confession. To me they mean the same. Irregardless, I reiterate so you’re not confused as to where I stand; Ya’ gotta show it, whether you profess it or confess it.
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi

I am an Ahmadi a peaceful Mulsim.
I understand from Quran/Islam/Muhammad that salvation or entering into the pleasant mercy of GodAllahYHWH is entirely his grace and he is master of the day of judgement which He would decide mercifully and with justice.

Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Hindus, JWs and Muslims etc need His mercy and hence they should all purify their beliefs and do good acts/deeds always and if ever they err, they should repent on it before Him and seek His forgiveness.

Quran

[2:61] And remember the time when Moses prayed for water for his people and We said, ‘Strike the rock with thy rod;’ and there gushed forth from it twelve springs, so that every tribe knew their drinking place. And they were told, ‘Eat and drink of what Allah has provided, and commit not iniquity in the earth, creating disorder.’
[2:62] And remember when you said, ‘O Moses, surely we will not remain content with one kind of food; pray, then, to thy Lord for us that He may bring forth for us of what the earth grows - of its herbs and its cucumbers and its wheat and its lentils and its onions.’ He said, ‘Would you take in exchange that which is worse for that which is better? Go down to some town and there is for you what you ask.’ And they were smitten with abasement and destitution, and they incurred the wrath of Allah; that was because they rejected the Signs of Allah and sought to slay the Prophets unjustly; this was because they rebelled and transgressed.
[2:63] **Surely, those who believe and the Jews and the Christians and the Sabians - whichever party from among these truly believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good deeds, shall have their reward with their Lord, and no fear shall come upon them, nor shall they grieve. **
Unquote

Please see how graceful is our GodAllahYHWH the Creator of all the Universe and what is within it.

I respect your religion.

Thanks
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What does it mean to have salvation in Islam and how does one know they have it?
 
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