Question for the "gay" activists (including heterosexual "gay" activists) who say that Scripture doesn't condemn homosexual acts

[andrewstx]

I really cannot understand all the talk about “destroying or redefining” marriage. To be honest it reminds me of school children’s taunts. “no marriage is mine, all mine, no one else’s and I refuse to share it.”

I would be perfectly happy with the Vermont idea, where unrelated people of whatever gender or sexual orientation are allowed to form unions regardless of whether sexual intercourse is present or not.

I am an upper middle aged man with SSA who is chaste and has been for years.

You ask what interest have you in a union without sex? For one thing I do not obsess with or even have sex (that is how chaste is defined).

I was an only child with both parents reposed and step-parents as well.

I want legal rights to have a friend visit me in hospital, to act as power of attorney, to carry out my last wishes. All of those things are impossible in Baptist Texas which is where I exist.

And BTW I have had a stroke, COPD and heart trouble so it could possibly be not so far away.

 

[cwltexas]

I really cannot understand all the talk about “destroying or redefining” marriage. To be honest it reminds me of school children’s taunts. “no marriage is mine, all mine, no one else’s and I refuse to share it.”

I would be perfectly happy with the Vermont idea, where unrelated people of whatever gender or sexual orientation are allowed to form unions regardless of whether sexual intercourse is present or not.

I am an upper middle aged man with SSA who is chaste and has been for years.

You ask what interest have you in a union without sex? For one thing I do not obsess with or even have sex (that is how chaste is defined).

I was an only child with both parents reposed and step-parents as well.

I want legal rights to have a friend visit me in hospital, to act as power of attorney, to carry out my last wishes. All of those things are impossible in Baptist Texas which is where I exist.

And BTW I have had a stroke, COPD and heart trouble so it could possibly be not so far away.

Exactly! I am in your exact same position!

 

[Aviatrix]

Heh, getting married doesn’t solve all the worlds problems, friend. Even a lot of straight couples don’t seem to understand that.

I agree, obviously, being married myself I don’t think it is just to use the arguement that gay people in Canada commit suicide, so therefore gay marriage is harmful. That specific argument just isn’t sound, and mischaracterizes the state of things in other countries and diminsihes the struggles that LGBT people here go through. There are arguments against homosexual marriage, this just isn’t one of them.

 

[livingwordunity]

I agree, obviously, being married myself I don’t think it is just to use the arguement that gay people in Canada commit suicide, so therefore gay marriage is harmful. That specific argument just isn’t sound, and mischaracterizes the state of things in other countries and diminsihes the struggles that LGBT people here go through. There are arguments against homosexual marriage, this just isn’t one of them.

But why ignore the fact that homosexuals are, statistically on average as a group, more inclined to commit suicide even in the countries and places that accept them the most? Most people’s first thought isn’t to go kill themselves the first time they meet someone who is mean to them. Think about all the Christians in the world and in history that suffered extreme persecution and even torture but didn’t kill themselves. That’s because as Christians we have a hope in God. Being a Christian means that our identity is first of all as a child of God. And that transcends anything anyone can do to us. That’s the good news that Christians are trying to share with people who are enslaved to the homosexual lifestyle and to other kinds of sin. And I’m saying this as one who struggles with sin but who has experienced what it’s like to be free of it by God’s grace. God loves us even as we are down in a pit of sin, but He loves us too much to want us to stay there.

 

[cwltexas]

But why ignore the fact that homosexuals are, statistically on average as a group, more inclined to commit suicide even in the countries and places that accept them the most? Most people’s first thought isn’t to go kill themselves the first time they meet someone who is mean to them. Think about all the Christians in the world and in history that suffered extreme persecution and even torture but didn’t kill themselves. That’s because as Christians we have a hope in God. Being a Christian means that our identity is first of all as a child of God. And that transcends anything anyone can do to us. That’s the good news that Christians are trying to share with people who are enslaved to the homosexual lifestyle and to other kinds of sin. And I’m saying this as one who struggles with sin but who has experienced what it’s like to be free of it by God’s grace. God loves us even as we are down in a pit of sin, but He loves us too much to want us to stay there.

I am going to ask you again, DO YOU HAVE A LINK TO ANY SCIENTIFIC DATA that supports your assertions above?

 

[Aviatrix]

But why ignore the fact that homosexuals are, statistically on average as a group, more inclined to commit suicide even in the countries and places that accept them the most? Most people’s first thought isn’t to go kill themselves the first time they meet someone who is mean to them. Think about all the Christians in the world and in history that suffered extreme persecution and even torture but didn’t kill themselves. That’s because as Christians we have a hope in God. Being a Christian means that our identity is first of all as a child of God. And that transcends anything anyone can do to us. That’s the good news that Christians are trying to share with people who are enslaved to the homosexual lifestyle and to other kinds of sin. And I’m saying this as one who struggles with sin but who has experienced what it’s like to be free of it by God’s grace. God loves us even as we are down in a pit of sin, but He loves us too much to want us to stay there.

I’m not ignoring or suggesting that anyone ignore it. In fact I would like if more time were spent addressing these issues and finding ways to support and prevent it. You are right, people don’t want to do commit suicide that the first time. When you hear it every day, from multiple people, from kids and adults, strangers and ‘friends’, you are told you are worthless and disgusting it will start to add up and mess up someone’s psyche. The homosexual Christians I know don’t tie their whole identity to their sexuality in the same way I do not. Their sexuality (like everyone’s) is still part of them, though. The messages they hear about themselves because of their sexuality can be persistent and degrading. They don’t just come from Christians either. They come from all directions.

You are right about God’s good news! That is the message EVERYONE needs to hear more of. I think it is often not the one that is presented however.

 

[livingwordunity]

But why ignore the fact that homosexuals are, statistically on average as a group, more inclined to commit suicide even in the countries and places that accept them the most? Most people’s first thought isn’t to go kill themselves the first time they meet someone who is mean to them. Think about all the Christians in the world and in history that suffered extreme persecution and even torture but didn’t kill themselves. That’s because as Christians we have a hope in God. Being a Christian means that our identity is first of all as a child of God. And that transcends anything anyone can do to us. That’s the good news that Christians are trying to share with people who are enslaved to the homosexual lifestyle and to other kinds of sin. And I’m saying this as one who struggles with sin but who has experienced what it’s like to be free of it by God’s grace. God loves us even as we are down in a pit of sin, but He loves us too much to want us to stay there.

I am going to ask you again, DO YOU HAVE A LINK TO ANY SCIENTIFIC DATA that supports your assertions above?

“Our study confirms earlier work carried out in the UK, USA and Holland which suggests that non-heterosexual people are at higher risk of mental disorder, suicidal ideation, substance misuse and self-harm than heterosexual people.” (source)

Holland is extremely liberal and accepting of homosexuals and was the first country in the world to redefine marriage to include homosexuals which they did in 2000. But “gays” still continue to have a high suicide rate there. Keep in mind that heterosexuals can have a lot of problems. And everyone has enemies who treat them mean. I’ve met a lot people in my lifetime that were mean and rude to me. When I was a kid I was bullied a lot. Also, there are thousands of Christians who throughout history and today were victims of extreme persecution to include torture. But none of them committed suicide.

 

[Aviatrix]

Then that should tell you that the abuse homosexuals go through is often much greater than normal.

Not all homosexuals are depressed, or commit suicide. Just like not all heterosexuals have these issues, but still some do. Regardless of orientation, I think you’ll find that the more bullying and abuse one is subject to, the more likely their mental health is to suffer.

 

[josh987654321]

I have come to this conclusion on homosexuality, I apologise for the length, I would just very much like to share this with people, if I have miss judged something in this I would very much like to know, thank you.

Homosexuals who act on their disordered desires in trying to mimic a hetrosexual union will find themselves in a cheap imitation, because it’s not just human opposition, it’s the human anatomy of a man and a women and of nature itself that opposes what they are doing, than they will act in desperate ways because the truth of their disordered desires will no longer be able to be supressed, than they will have deep seated problems (if not already) because they have no idea how to deal with their disordered desires in a healthy and constructive manner.

People who im sure are trying to help, have been lieing to them by giving them a placebo, in encouraging them to go down such a destructive path of being a slave to their desires, which will ultimatly leave them in despair, which is a road I don’t want anyone to go down, including heterosexuals who don’t have an understanding of sexual morality, the only cure is strength to control our immoral desires.

I certainly wont throw stones if out of weakness homosexuals or heterosexuals give into their disordered and/or immoral desires, but I will be in opposition when people try to claim that those desires are no longer immoral or disordered, which is what they are doing with same sex marriage.

I would be in just as much opposition if they tried to redfine a word to equate pre marital sex with celibacy.

All of this argument for SSM I think is because they don’t deal with the truth, once people see and share the truth of homosexuality than we can help homosexuals deal with the truth in a healthy and constructive manner, just like we help heterosexuals deal with celibacy, instead of shoving the truth deep down inside for everyone until they can no longer supress it, the truth that homosexual desires are infact disordered and/or immoral and that the only way is to oppose our immoral and/or disoredered desires, don’t encourage disordered and/or immoral desires to flourish because ultimately they will destroy us, leaving us in despair.

I want to help homosexuals, in which I assume gay-activists and many in opposition to SSM are also trying to do, so I think all we need to do is show the ones who are encouraging acts of homosexuality that they are making matters worse for homosexuals, they are telling them what homosexuals want to hear and not the truth that they need to hear, homosexuals of course don’t want to deal with the truth just like the rest of us in many aspects of our lives, so instead they choose to believe a lie and continue down a destructive path, of being a slave to disordered and immoral desires.

I wish people wouldn’t encourage homosexuals to aim for something that is impossible for them to achieve (equality between a homosexual and hetrosexual union with same sex marriage) some might say it is possible but they are wrong, because the anatomy of a man and a women will always dictate that this equality is false, no matter how much they want to pretend that it’s there, so if you are a homosexual please give up on this unachievable goal for equality between homosexual and hetrosexual unions in regards to marriage, it’s impossible to achieve, instead be happy and content with who you are with the aim of strength and control over your disordered and immoral desires, that every person including heterosexuals suffer from in different ways.

The LGBT community with same sex marriage are ecouraging homosexuals to live a cheap imitation of a hetrosexual union which will make homosexuals worse off, not better, this is why gay-activists are just unintentionally being cruel towards homosexuals, I wish gay-activists would see that if they really want to help homosexuals, than they need to be giving them the truth of homosexuality and ways to deal with it in a healthy and constructive manner, because homosexuals are no different to the rest of us, except for only in the sense that they suffer from different immoral and disordered desires, it is control over our desires and only in this way that it will make homosexuals and heterosexuals better off, and lighten our crosses.

All of those who support the acts of homosexuality like SSM, have told homosexuals a lie and now they are forcing everyone else to “Play Along” with this lie in order to make homosexuals feel better, we should be giving them the truth and helping them deal with their disordered desires, anything else is just wrong, as true love wants what is best for the other, it doesn’t give easy answers, it doesn’t appease peoples conciences by telling them lies, it is an act of the will, not of the flesh.

The word Love has been grossly missused by many people and in regards to same sex marriage it is the same evil miss use of the word love that drives the passion behind the support for same sex marriage.

It is because of love of thy neighbour that I cannot in good concience support the acts of homosexuality which includes same sex marriage, because encouraging homosexuals to give into their disordered desires is not the answer, some think it is, but Im sure that it isn’t, it will instead lead them down a destructive path and ultimately leave them in despair, from being a slave to their disordered desires.

We must fight for equality between homosexuals and heterosexuals, we are all created in the likeness of God, we are all equal, however it’s wrong and unjust to argue for equality between heterosexuality and homosexuality.

I oppose homosexuality, not homosexuals, I think that any mistreatment or dicrimination toward homosexuals is just so very wrong and must stop, but I think that equating homosexuality and heterosexuality with things like same sex marriage is also wrong and unjust.

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[livingwordunity]

Then that should tell you that the abuse homosexuals go through is often much greater than normal.

Did you read my post? In it I mentioned how there are many Christians who are tortured and don’t commit suicide. And there’s no evidence that bullying happens to “gays” more than it happens to straight kids. From my own experience I know that straight kids get bullied a lot, and the kind of bullying that I received was about as extreme as it gets. Other kids used to call me “monkey face”, and I got beat up. How can it be worse than that? If all you go by is the bullying that makes the news you would think that straight kids never get bullied. I think if a “gay” kid gets bullied it makes the news, but if a straight kid gets bullied it doesn’t since people only want to know about “gay” kids getting bullied.

 

[cwltexas]

“Our study confirms earlier work carried out in the UK, USA and Holland which suggests that non-heterosexual people are at higher risk of mental disorder, suicidal ideation, substance misuse and self-harm than heterosexual people.” (source)

Holland is extremely liberal and accepting of homosexuals and was the first country in the world to redefine marriage to include homosexuals which they did in 2000. But “gays” still continue to have a high suicide rate there. Keep in mind that heterosexuals can have a lot of problems. And everyone has enemies who treat them mean. I’ve met a lot people in my lifetime that were mean and rude to me. When I was a kid I was bullied a lot. Also, there are thousands of Christians who throughout history and today were victims of extreme persecution to include torture. But none of them committed suicide.

Thank You!

From your link;

“The researchers say, “There are a number of reasons why gay people may be more likely to report psychological difficulties, which include difficulties growing up in a world orientated to heterosexual norms and values and the negative influence of social stigma against homosexuality.” Liberal government policies does not equal overall liberal population attitudes and practices, btw.

 

[Aviatrix]

Did you read my post? In it I mentioned how there are many Christians who are tortured and don’t commit suicide. And there’s no evidence that bullying happens to “gays” more than it happens to straight kids. From my own experience I know that straight kids get bullied a lot, and the kind of bullying that I received was about as extreme as it gets. Other kids used to call me “monkey face”, and I got beat up. How can it be worse than that? If all you go by is the bullying that makes the news you would think that straight kids never get bullied. I think if a “gay” kid gets bullied it makes the news, but if a straight kid gets bullied it doesn’t since people only want to know about “gay” kids getting bullied.

Yes, I did read your post. You have posted essentially the same thing several times and I have replied each time. I’ll say it again; not everyone who goes through these things will be affected the same way. Some people will deal with depression etc, some will not. Your instance is merely one example and I’m sorry you had to go through that. Surely one can see the connection between ongoing personal persecution and depression. It has already pointed out that the article you posted mentions the same thing.

Regarding torture, I don’t think it is analogous because it so much more extreme. I have no conception of what goes through the mind of someone being tortured, nor why. I would be surprised however if some people didn’t wish to die while they were being tortured.

There is an argument against same sex marriage. This just isn’t one of them.

 

[Aviatrix]

And there IS evidence that LGBT are bullied more:

“59 per cent of LGBTQ high school students reported they were verbally harassed, compared to seven per cent of non-LGBTQ students.”

25 per cent of LGBTQ students indicated being physically harassed due to their sexual orientation, compared to eight per cent of non-LGBTQ students.

1 per cent of LGBTQ students reported personal harassment on the internet or via text messaging, compared to eight per cent of non-LGBTQ students.

73 per cent of LGBTQ students reported they felt unsafe at school, compared to 20 per cent who did not.

51 per cent of LGBTQ students reported they did not feel accepted at school, compared to 19 per cent of non-LGBTQ students

cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2010/10/29/gay-bullying-statistics.html

 

[livingwordunity]

You see Lot thought no more of his daugthers than his cattle since he offered them to the crowd to be raped and allow them to “do what they wanted to”.

Lot was saved from the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah because of his righteousness. So, what you say makes no sense in the context of the Bible. If Lot was the bad one, why did God save him but destroy the city that was full of homosexually lustful men? Also, do you believe that the “gay” activists are liars who have called the verses in the OP “hate speech”? Apparently, the verses are clear enough to them for them to see them as being against homosexual behavior and to arouse them to even go so far as to create their own Bible with all those verses omitted.

 

[livingwordunity]

And there IS evidence that LGBT are bullied more:

“59 per cent of LGBTQ high school students reported they were verbally harassed, compared to seven per cent of non-LGBTQ students.”

25 per cent of LGBTQ students indicated being physically harassed due to their sexual orientation, compared to eight per cent of non-LGBTQ students.

1 per cent of LGBTQ students reported personal harassment on the internet or via text messaging, compared to eight per cent of non-LGBTQ students.

73 per cent of LGBTQ students reported they felt unsafe at school, compared to 20 per cent who did not.

51 per cent of LGBTQ students reported they did not feel accepted at school, compared to 19 per cent of non-LGBTQ students

cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2010/10/29/gay-bullying-statistics.html

That only shows that “gays” complain more than straights do. I’ve noticed that they are a lot easier to offend.

 

[Publisher]

Lot was saved from the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah because of his righteousness. So, what you say makes no sense in the context of the Bible. If Lot was the bad one, why did God save him but destroy the city that was full of homosexually lustful men? Also, do you believe that the “gay” activists are liars who have called the verses in the OP “hate speech”? Apparently, the verses are clear enough to them for them to see them as being against homosexual behavior and to arouse them to even go so far as to create their own Bible with all those verses omitted.

It makes perfect sense. Lot was from a patriarchal society that placed no value on women other than for the father to keep her a virgin as she would provide a nice “bride price”…and the husband who would bear him sons. A woman’s worth was by how many “strong sons” she could give him…and if she didn’t give him sons…which thru our modern understanding it is known that the sex of the child is not dependant on the woman “giving him a son” but by which of his little swimmers provides the “male” genetic make up.

All those women who were castigated, cast off thru divorce because they “bore no sons” had nothing to do with the whole “give me a son” issue…it rested with the man…but that is a part of human sexuality we only have realized in the last century or two.

For partriarchal Lot to offer his daughters was no great sacrifce…they were female for gods sake…just like Jeptha who sacrificed his daughter to God…doubt he would have done so with a son…his heir…women could not be heirs…women were purchased like cattle. A man could have numerous wives to insure him getting a son…but a woman could only have one husband to insure any son she bore was his.

 

[livingwordunity]

It makes perfect sense. Lot was from a patriarchal society that placed no value on women other than for the father to keep her a virgin as she would provide a nice “bride price”…and the husband who would bear him sons. A woman’s worth was by how many “strong sons” she could give him…and if she didn’t give him sons…which thru our modern understanding it is known that the sex of the child is not dependant on the woman “giving him a son” but by which of his little swimmers provides the “male” genetic make up.

All those women who were castigated, cast off thru divorce because they “bore no sons” had nothing to do with the whole “give me a son” issue…it rested with the man…but that is a part of human sexuality we only have realized in the last century or two.

You haven’t explained why God would choose to save Lot while choosing to destroy the city that was full of homosexually lustful men.

 

[Publisher]

You haven’t explained why God would choose to save Lot while choosing to destroy the city that was full of homosexually lustful men.

Trying to makes sense of mythical stories and how they impact our modern understanding of life is difficult at times. I no more believe the destruction of Sodom was by God’s hand than Tyre and Sidon’s were. The whole story is set in such a way to make the readers understand where Israel’s two competing nations came from. Who were the children Lot’s daughters bore? What role did their children play in Israel’s history?

 

[cwltexas]

You haven’t explained why God would choose to save Lot while choosing to destroy the city that was full of homosexually lustful men.

Are you worried that you are gay? The reason I ask is I have been here only a couple of days now and it seems you exclusively post about homosexuality, are you having issues that trouble you and that you need to talk about?

 

[livingwordunity]

Trying to makes sense of mythical stories and how they impact our modern understanding of life is difficult at times. I no more believe the destruction of Sodom was by God’s hand than Tyre and Sidon’s were. The whole story is set in such a way to make the readers understand where Israel’s two competing nations came from. Who were the children Lot’s daughters bore? What role did their children play in Israel’s history?

Ok, I see. So you believe that you can pick and choose what parts of God’s word to accept and what parts of God’s word to reject. Got it. But you still haven’t explained why the perceived need in the “gay” community for a Bible that omits all of those verses that you say have nothing to do with homosexual behavior. Do you think the “gay” activists who call those verses “hate speech” are liars?