Question for the Mormons – Heavenly Mother(s)

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I would like to see some documentation on that one tsuzuki.
Ignore him–I said my novena to our Lady for tsuzuki’s behalf (that he abandons his nonsense belief that he can be two contradictory things) and that is all I will do–responding to his “brain dribblings” just encourages him.
 
Tsuzuki…? What the heck is a Mormon-Rite Catholic??? You can’t be Mormon and Catholic! :eek:

What is this, some kind of split-off group like the SSPX, only Mormon??? :confused:
 
Tsuzuki’s primary religion is something he made up, called “paradigm piracy.” He is also into the occult, and considers himself some sort of magician. I got this from one of his websites.

I wouldn’t trust him for any facts about either LDS beliefs or Catholicism.

Praying for him,

Ruthie
 
More like a stick-on than a split-off.
But… Tsuzuki… you can’t be a Catholic in goodstanding and also put the occult to use. Don’t you know delving into the occult is condemned by the Church? If you go to Mass without repenting and confessing that, you’ll profane the Sacrament…! :nope:

What do you mean, a stick-on?
 
That actually explians quite a bit. His self-lauding musings reminded me of the follies of my own youth.
Tsuzuki:
little about myself:

I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, though I am also a student of most of the world’s religions, including Catholicism, Gnosticism, Judaism, Taoism, Buddhism, and pretty much anything else you could mention. I follow a philosophy known as “paradigm piracy”, where beliefs themselves are seen as tools.

I also a practice chaos magic, which is an “empty-handed” (without specific props or tools) form of magic that draws on as many sources as the practitioner cares to choose from. The emphasis in chaos magic is on technique and what gets results. In many respects, chaos magic is the practical application of the philosophy of paradigm piracy.

I am also an amateur astrologer, and know enough to do readings for myself.

I am currently attending school with a major in psychology, and am active in Japanese anime/manga fandom…
A fan of Levi? Here’s some recommended reading that may cure you of that little weltanschauung.

More fun than linking telluric currents to the Tree of Life!
 
I must admit, it’s quite refreshing to talk with someone who understands where I’m coming from…He regarded the Church highly, and considered good Catholics as genuine magicians.

“We want to be clearly understood on this point. We are not trying to say that signs and rites are a big piece of humbug. They would be such if people did not need them…Children have faith and this is what saves them. Imagine a child of seven saying: ‘I do not want to accept anything I cannot understand.’ What could one teach such a monster? Accept what your teachers tell you to begin with, my fine fellow, then study it and, if you are not an idiot, you will understand it by-and-by.”

The universal religion comprehends all others. But I’m no missionary. I’m in it for my own understanding and couldn’t care less about what others decide to do. I just like bouncing ideas off of people.

Tsuzuki, I study Llullist and Jewish Kaballah, but I always place it a rung below Revealed Truth by the Church. I think your occultic view of things is skewed. What do you think of Christ, anyway? The Eucharist? The blessed Trinity?​
 
I must admit, it’s quite refreshing to talk with someone who understands where I’m coming from…
But you see, even in this, Eco trumps Levi:

*"There are four kinds of people in this world: cretins, fools, morons, and lunatics…If you take a good look, everybody fits into one of these categories. Each of us is sometimes a cretin, a fool, a moron, or a lunatic. A normal person is just a reasonable mix of these components, these four ideal types…A genius uses one component in a dazzling way, fueling it with the others…

Now then: cretins. Cretins don’t even talk; they sort of slobber and stumble. You know, the guy who presses the ice cream cone against his forehead, or enters a revolving door the wrong way. Being a fool is more complicated. It’s a form of social behavior. A fool is one who always talks outside his glass…He wants to talk about what’s in the glass, but somehow or other he misses. He’s the guy who puts his foot in his mouth. For example, he says how’s your lovely wife to someone whose wife has just left him…

Fools are in great demand, especially on social occasions. They embarrass everyone but provide material for conversation. In their positive form, they become diplomats. Talking outside the glass when someone else blunders helps to change the subject. But fools don’t interest us, either. They’re never creative, their talent is all second-hand, so they don’t submit manuscripts to publishers. Fools don’t claim that cats bark, but they talk about cats when everyone else is talking about dogs. They offend all the rules of conversation, and when they really offend, they’re magnificent. It’s a dying breed, the embodiment of all the bourgeois virtues…Well, a fool is a Joachim Murat reviewing his officers. He sees one from Martinique covered with medals. ‘Vous etes negre?’ Murat asks. ‘Oui, mon general!’ the man answers. And Murat says: ‘Bravo, bravo, continuez!’ And so on…

Morons never do the wrong thing. They get their reasoning wrong. Like the fellow who says all dogs are pets and all dogs bark, and cats are pets, too, and therefore cats bark. Or that all Athenians are mortal, and all the citizens of Piraeus are mortal, so all the citizens of Piraeus are Athenians…Morons will occasionally say something that’s right, but they say it for the wrong reason…Morons are tricky. You can spot the fool right away (not to mention the cretin), but the moron reasons almost the way you do; the gap is infinitesimal. A moron is a master of paralogism…

A lunatic is easily recognized. He is a moron who doesn’t know the ropes. The moron proves his thesis; he has a logic; however twisted it may be. The lunatic, on the other hand, doesn’t concern himself at all with logic; he just works by short circuits. For him, everything proves everything else. Their reasoning proceeds by quantum leaps of faith and mystical inspiration. Random chance is replaced with the belief that all occurrences are interrelated and inherently meaningful. For the lunatic, any event or experience can be used to support their internal belief system.The lunatic is all idée fixe, and whatever he comes across confirms his lunacy. You can tell him by the liberties he takes with common sense, by his flashes of inspiration, and by the fact that sooner or later he brings up the Templars."*

Binah, Chapter 10
 
That’s pretty cool.
Anything else that doesn’t necessarily contradict Revealed Catholic Truth is acceptable, as long as it’s kept a rung below that Truth.
My Lord and my God.
Glad to hear it, but remember, occultism is condemned in the Bible.
Where I can share in the divine nature by partaking of Christ’s literal presence in the host.
Orthodox… but it isn’t ‘magick’, it’s miracle.
I understand the basics of three persons in one God, but I am eager to learn more, especially the significance of the number three and if/how it ties in with Theosis.
I understand that time and space, as well as other aspects of our universe, including humans, are trinitarian in nature–

But this is off-topic of this thread…
 
I have no problem with that.
Good, so you are, first and formost, a Roman Catholic Christian?
I guess it depends on your definition. Though regardless of definition, God doesn’t condemn things without reason, and if we know the reason we can avoid the pitfalls.
Ok… I agree.
Eliphas Levi defined magic as the science of miracles, and so do I.
Well, perhaps it would be best to revise that terminology, as most people associate magic or magick with the unholy or charlatanism.
This is an inscription which is paradoxical in form only. The police of any given place belong to the king and are his representatives. God cannot set Himself against His own police. He can throw evil popes and bad kings onto the dung heap, but He cannot disregard the ruling laws. Hence every miracle which is done in defiance of the spiritual and legal authority of the pope or against the temporal and legal authority of the king, does not come from God, but from the Devil.
This entire paragraph is extremely interesting-- however, this topic has been completely derailed by us. :eek:
God in the world means order and authority; it is Satan who stands for disorder and anarchy. Why is it not only permissible but even glorious to resist a tyrant? It is because the tyrant is an anarchist who has usurped power. Do you wish to fight victoriously against evil? Be the personification of what is good. Do you want to conquer anarchy? Be the arm of authority. Do you want to chain up Satan? Be the power of God.
This makes a lot of sense, and is fully compatible with Catholic teaching.
Again, it depends on your definition, but I agree with you on this point.
I think you should revise your terminology, as you’ll get some :eek: :eek: :eek: if you use the term “magic” or “magick” around people who don’t know you’re really saying “the science of miracles”.

And another thing-- the Mormon Church is false, and set against the Catholic Church. You shouldn’t be involved in that!
 
I know that black void. I found a door to it, and already warned tsuzuki he is on a path to Nothing. Maybe two warnings will sink in (hopeful).
I have seen some things which convince me there is an objetctively evil presence in this universe and that the depths of his malice are not imaginable by our minds.
agreed
 
I totally agree. Llullist Kaballah and Jewish Kaballah are derived from God, whereas the Occult comes from… well, the Devil.

And the train has derailed. :eek:
 
If you want to stick a label on me, sure, though I would word it as “a Catholic Christian in communion with the pontiff of the world, whose seat is in Rome.” However, my own personal favorite label is “anime otaku”.
By the way, I like Trinity Blood, too. And Death Note.

:eek: We derailed this thread.
I have an active interest in redefining and redeeming the terms “magic” and “occult”, so I will continue to use them. I also enjoy playing devil’s advocate (no pun intended).
Be careful. That territorry can be dangerous. :eek:
With all due respect, I have 20+ years of Mormonism under my belt starting from age 8, and I’ve never seen it set against the Catholic Church. Growing up, most of my extended family was Catholic, and there was no friction whatsoever. If it’s false, it’s false, but as long as I can find some good, I will continue to extract it for my own personal benefit.
Don’t they consider Holy Mother Church to be the :eek: Whore of Babylon?

And besides, what do your fellow-Mormons think? :eek:
 
It’s too bad you had to ruin my Umberto Eco quotes with yet more Levi quotes.

😃
 
I provided a link. You should read the book, and not take yourself so seriously.

Into which category do you think occultists like Crowley, Levi and Blavatsky would have fallen, neh?
 
I apologize if I gave the impression that I took myself seriously. In Discordianism that is a mortal sin.

The book has been on my to read list for a while, and it’s also on my Amazon wish list if you are feeling generous, though it will be hard to beat the Illuminatus! trilogy.

I don’t like lumping people into categories, but all four describe Crowley at times, and I’m not very familiar with Blavatsky other than the fact that she was a fraud with very few original ideas. Of the three, Levi is the only one I have any respect for.
Well, then, you’re on the right path. Illuminatus! is a great start. I do find it a little contrarian to be considered a Occultist/Discordian at the same time.
 
This is so derailed! :eek:

I really have no idea, what you guys are talking about, considering I only really read Catholic Llullist Kaballah and Jewish Kaballah… :confused:
 
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