Question for those going to SSPX chapel

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Question for those that go to SSPX churches: what is the feel of the the congregation at your chapel, is the majority for reconcilliation with Rome? I was wondering which way the Faithful are leaning right now. Thanks and God Bless
 
Not to derail your thread, but what does it matter how the faithful are leaning? None of them are members of the SSPX and if they are truly faithful they will fall in line with what Rome decides. Not to be mean, but what good could come from this type of question but a thread where each side again re-hashes the same opinion over and over again? Would it not be better to pray and wait for a decision to be made?

There are situations where the opinion of the layity are sought and welcomed and situations where it is best to pray and keep our opinions of things we have no control over to ourselves.
 
My interactions with people at the SSPX chapel I attend are pretty much only with the schola and the choir. We have always been in favor of reconciliation. As the schola director recently said: “we are ROMAN Catholics, after all.”

Now, the details of the reconciliation certainly matter, but since no one knows what those are right now, we remain in favor of reconciliation on principle. I personally trust +Fellay to do the right thing and pray continually that God’s will be done in the matter.
  • PAX
 
Legit question. I only attend on occasions that I am near the Portland Chapel on a Sunday but I have been very familiar with SSPX since 1978.

Most folks that I know just want a valid and licit Mass/Sacraments. There are obviously a few “wild-eyed radicals” as there are any where. But these are in the minority.
 
Everyone I meet there is absolutely pro Rome and wants full reconciliation, they will never be schismatic. The reason why they say often no, is because there is no dogma that says that everything the Vatican says has to be done.
By the way I visit a SSPX Church, why does everyone only talks about chapel?
 
Because most of their mass locations are only dedicated places for worship not dedicated buildings. Some are not even owned by the SSPX themselves. They also list them as chapels on their website and refer to them as such.
 
Not to derail your thread, but what does it matter how the faithful are leaning? None of them are members of the SSPX and if they are truly faithful they will fall in line with what Rome decides. Not to be mean, but what good could come from this type of question but a thread where each side again re-hashes the same opinion over and over again? Would it not be better to pray and wait for a decision to be made?

There are situations where the opinion of the layity are sought and welcomed and situations where it is best to pray and keep our opinions of things we have no control over to ourselves.
It matters because the only reason the SSPX has any clout at all is because of the laity. There are like 500 priests. There are 1,000,000ish lay followers. The numbers of laity are what give the SSPX power.
 
Not to derail your thread, but what does it matter how the faithful are leaning? None of them are members of the SSPX and if they are truly faithful they will fall in line with what Rome decides. Not to be mean, but what good could come from this type of question but a thread where each side again re-hashes the same opinion over and over again? Would it not be better to pray and wait for a decision to be made?

There are situations where the opinion of the layity are sought and welcomed and situations where it is best to pray and keep our opinions of things we have no control over to ourselves.
👍

Not only that, but if Brother Jay gets wind of this senseless and time-wasting speculation, he’ll have us do even worse penances this time than he did the last.

:clapping:
 
It matters because the only reason the SSPX has any clout at all is because of the laity. There are like 500 priests. There are 1,000,000ish lay followers. The numbers of laity are what give the SSPX power.
I was not aware the SSPX was in a power struggle. May I humbly ask - with whom are they in a power struggle with? The Pope? The Magisterium? How can you be in a power struggle when you have already lost? The Pope wins, period.

This is not an issue of power. It is one of authority.
 
I was not aware the SSPX was in a power struggle. May I humbly ask - with whom are they in a power struggle with? The Pope? The Magisterium? How can you be in a power struggle when you have already lost? The Pope wins, period.

This is not an issue of power. It is one of authority.
I wasn’t exactly trying to be scientific with terminology. I’m sorry if that caused problems here.

=D
 
I was not aware the SSPX was in a power struggle. May I humbly ask - with whom are they in a power struggle with? The Pope? The Magisterium? How can you be in a power struggle when you have already lost? The Pope wins, period.

This is not an issue of power. It is one of authority.
I believe that the pope “wins” (as you put it) when it comes to athority as well.
 
Not to derail your thread, but what does it matter how the faithful are leaning? None of them are members of the SSPX and if they are truly faithful they will fall in line with what Rome decides.`
We seem to be talking about definitions as to who is in the SSPX versus the reality on the ground.

People who attend an SSPX chapel are often shunned by other Catholics, including their own families. These laity are faithful to the priests and the priests are faithful to them.

And before anyone says we should be faithful to God and the Catholic Church, that goes without saying. But shepherds are also faithful to their flock.
 
Everyone I meet there is absolutely pro Rome and wants full reconciliation, they will never be schismatic. The reason why they say often no, is because there is no dogma that says that everything the Vatican says has to be done.
By the way I visit a SSPX Church, why does everyone only talks about chapel?
This is a very devout Catholic forum, and “church” has a very technical meaning in Catholic law, referring to the diocese (called a “particular church”). An ordinary “church” where most people go to mass on a Sunday is technically called a “parish”, which means the community has certain rights in Catholic law.

A “chapel”, by distinction, is a place of worship that doesn’t have “parish” rights for whatever reason.

A “parish” in Catholic law is part of a diocese. The SSPX masses, however, are administered by the SSPX directly, and are independent of the dioceses. Thus these are called “chapels”, instead of “parishes”. Calling it an “SSPX Church” is not a technical term, and thus should not be used to avoid confusion on this forum.
 
This is a very devout Catholic forum, and “church” has a very technical meaning in Catholic law, referring to the diocese (called a “particular church”). An ordinary “church” where most people go to mass on a Sunday is technically called a “parish”, which means the community has certain rights in Catholic law.

A “chapel”, by distinction, is a place of worship that doesn’t have “parish” rights for whatever reason.

A “parish” in Catholic law is part of a diocese. The SSPX masses, however, are administered by the SSPX directly, and are independent of the dioceses. Thus these are called “chapels”, instead of “parishes”. Calling it an “SSPX Church” is not a technical term, and thus should not be used to avoid confusion on this forum.
Not quite.

Church can mean: the entire Catholic Church; one of the 23 sui iuris Churches like the Latin Church; or the local Church, commonly called a diocese.

church means a physical building, most commonly a parish church. The word “church” is also of course capitalized when it is part of a particular church building’s name, like “St. Joseph Parish Church,” it being a proper noun in that case, although it still fits into this second category.

Parish means all of the Catholics in a certain geographical division of a diocese. Parish never technically refers to a building. A parish is a group of people, and never a building. The parish can own a church, and most own one or even more, but the parish is still only the people, and not the church building itself. It is of course common parlance to say, for example, “That is St. Joseph parish,” when referring to a building, but it is not technically correct.

“SSPX Church” would, I suppose, technically also be incorrect. The “c” in church should not be capitalized in this instance since it refers to no church in particular. However, “SSPX church” would be correct, I think, since it refers to a church building, and this is what the poster was trying to express.

But overall, I think we are making too much fuss over this.
 
Everyone I meet there is absolutely pro Rome and wants full reconciliation, they will never be schismatic. The reason why they say often no, is because there is no dogma that says that everything the Vatican says has to be done.
By the way I visit a SSPX Church, why does everyone only talks about chapel?
Because most of their mass locations are only dedicated places for worship not dedicated buildings. Some are not even owned by the SSPX themselves. They also list them as chapels on their website and refer to them as such.
This is a very devout Catholic forum, and “church” has a very technical meaning in Catholic law, referring to the diocese (called a “particular church”). An ordinary “church” where most people go to mass on a Sunday is technically called a “parish”, which means the community has certain rights in Catholic law.

A “chapel”, by distinction, is a place of worship that doesn’t have “parish” rights for whatever reason.

A “parish” in Catholic law is part of a diocese. The SSPX masses, however, are administered by the SSPX directly, and are independent of the dioceses. Thus these are called “chapels”, instead of “parishes”. Calling it an “SSPX Church” is not a technical term, and thus should not be used to avoid confusion on this forum.
Not quite.

Church can mean: the entire Catholic Church; one of the 23 sui iuris Churches like the Latin Church; or the local Church, commonly called a diocese.

church means a physical building, most commonly a parish church. The word “church” is also of course capitalized when it is part of a particular church building’s name, like “St. Joseph Parish Church,” it being a proper noun in that case, although it still fits into this second category.

Parish means all of the Catholics in a certain geographical division of a diocese. Parish never technically refers to a building. A parish is a group of people, and never a building. The parish can own a church, and most own one or even more, but the parish is still only the people, and not the church building itself. It is of course common parlance to say, for example, “That is St. Joseph parish,” when referring to a building, but it is not technically correct.

“SSPX Church” would, I suppose, technically also be incorrect. The “c” in church should not be capitalized in this instance since it refers to no church in particular. However, “SSPX church” would be correct, I think, since it refers to a church building, and this is what the poster was trying to express.

But overall, I think we are making too much fuss over this.
You folks are spinning your tires over something very simple. A church building is one that has been consecrated for the purpose of worship. There are only two people allowed to consecrate buildings for such a purpose a) the abbot of a monastery or b) the Ordinary of the diocese. Monasteries of men that follow the Benedictine Rule are allowed to have churches.

If the building in which the SSPX is worshiping was consecrated by an abbot or a diocesan bishop as a church, then it’s a church. Otherwise it is a private chapel, even if it’s the size of St. Peter’s Basilica.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
 
It matters because the only reason the SSPX has any clout at all is because of the laity. There are like 500 priests. There are 1,000,000ish lay followers. The numbers of laity are what give the SSPX power.
We seem to be talking about definitions as to who is in the SSPX versus the reality on the ground.

People who attend an SSPX chapel are often shunned by other Catholics, including their own families. These laity are faithful to the priests and the priests are faithful to them.

And before anyone says we should be faithful to God and the Catholic Church, that goes without saying. But shepherds are also faithful to their flock.
Regardless of the relationship between the priests and the Society, in this case, Canon Law only applies to the priests. The Sacred Congregation and the Discastry is not allowed to factor in the laity in their decisions. If they do so, the Signatura can step in and stop the whole process. Canon law is deliberately very cold. This way, there are no speculations and no second chances unless the pope himself grants a second chance.

The poster who said that the SSPX is very small, it canonically correct. In comparison to the religious orders, the SSPX is about the size of medium size province. Your average province has from 200 to 800 members. The SSPX has about 500 priests.

The laity, brothers, sisters and tertiaries are not counted. They do not exist for this purpose. What is being reconciled is the society of apostolic life. None of these other people are members of the Society. That’s why the Signatura would step in, if the laity are mentioned. The laity belongs to the bishop of the diocese, not to an institute, unless they have made profession in an institute.

One can be affectionate toward the priests of the SSPX, but one has to be very careful how one defines oneself. Even referring to the priests of the SSPX as one’s shepherds can get one into canonical trouble with the local bishop. Shepherd is a very specific canonical place that belongs exclusively to the bishop of the diocese. The auxiliary bishops pastors and associate pastors share in the shepherd’s ministry. Observe that only the bishop of the diocese carries the crosier when there are several bishops. He is the only shepherd. A suspended cleric cannot be a diocesan bishop; therefore, he is not a shepherd.

Even after this mess is resolved, you don’t want to use that term to refer to the SSPX where you can be heard by a pastor or a bishop. You get set off a lot of dander. If you ask the people who are part of Opus Dei, they never use that term for the Society of the Holy Cross (Opus Dei Priests). That’s exclusively for the clergy that is attached to the diocesan bishop. They refer to them as the priests and the laymen continue to be part of the diocese in which they live and in which they were baptized. They are not incorporated into the prelature.

Some mainstream Catholics are mean to Traditionalist, because they’re mean. It’s that simple. Thee is never an excuse for that.

Some are mean, because they get angry at the language that Traditionalists use. It is language that often sets them apart from other Catholics. This is not a legitimate excuse for being mean either. However, the Traditionalist individual must also take responsibility for using language that sets off fireworks. This is often done deliberately.

I agree that there are Traditionalists the use terms incorrectly, because they don’t know the correct language, just like many other people. But there are some who do know and deliberately use incorrect terms.

I’ll give you a simple example of this, which is not an SSPX example, but simply a person who wants to define things his way. I ran into a lady who asked me, “Where is the Franciscan of Life monastery?” I told her where our community house is and explained that we do not live in monasteries, because we’re not monks. We’re one step below monks in dignity and in canonical status. She insisted on calling our house a monastery. After a while, it became annoying.

Now she knew. I had explained it to her. I even put it in terms of dignity. The monk is above the rest of us. His consecration is superior to our own. His vocation is higher than any other Christian vocation.

She kept using the word monastery. I wanted to tell her to go away. I was good, really good. I took a deep breadth and repeated, "Madam, I’m not a monk. I’m not even dignified enough to be a monk. I’m a friar. We live in community houses or in friaries. Some friars live in monasteries that are lent to them by monastic orders or that are owned by dioceses. That’s not our case. She still uses the term “monastery.”

When you explain and people still insist, then it becomes annoying and it is tempting to respond in a mean way. I try very hard to bite my tongue. I have a callus on my tongue. 😃 Some Traditionalist people know what words will trigger a knee-jerk reaction from the mainstream Catholic. In fairness, most do not. You can tell, because when they’re corrected, they are very nice about it and use language appropriately.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
 
Witness: And I tell you, Peleg, we were at least half way to heaven when - all of a sudden! - no one could understand what anyone else was saying !

Peleg: Not likely.

Witness: No, really ! We couldn’t understand a word anyone else was saying !

Peleg: Oh yes, I know; I was referring to the bit about being half way to heaven.
 
Regardless of the relationship between the priests and the Society, in this case, Canon Law only applies to the priests.
Right, but we’re not talking about Canon law. We’re not priests or Bishops. We’re just people on the internet having discussions all speculative, as we have about tons of topics.

The question is, “What is the feel among the people who attend SSPX chapels?” That is a valid question. Are they excited about the possibilities, are they worried? Are they patiently waiting? This change will definitely affect them.

The reason we have SSPX priests here and there commenting when they have no right to during homilies is that they want to explain to the people who attend their chapels what is going on. Regardless of whether the faithful are technically part of them or not, again we’re not speaking about Canon law - at least not in this thread.

I haven’t had a chance to really ask anyone yet, what is being said, but I will and it does matter.
 
Right, but we’re not talking about Canon law. We’re not priests or Bishops. We’re just people on the internet having discussions all speculative, as we have about tons of topics.

The question is, “What is the feel among the people who attend SSPX chapels?” That is a valid question. Are they excited about the possibilities, are they worried? Are they patiently waiting? This change will definitely affect them.

The reason we have SSPX priests here and there commenting when they have no right to during homilies is that they want to explain to the people who attend their chapels what is going on. Regardless of whether the faithful are technically part of them or not, again we’re not speaking about Canon law - at least not in this thread.

I haven’t had a chance to really ask anyone yet, what is being said, but I will and it does matter.
My guess is that there will be a spectrum of feelings. Let’s start a pool. 😃 For, against, undecided.

Can you imagine such a pool? Who gets the winning? Hmmmmm

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
 
“SSPX Church” would, I suppose, technically also be incorrect. The “c” in church should not be capitalized in this instance since it refers to no church in particular. However, “SSPX church” would be correct, I think, since it refers to a church building, and this is what the poster was trying to express.

But overall, I think we are making too much fuss over this.
I agree, we are making too much of a fuss, but English does seem to have a problem with the word “church” doesn’t it? (almost like “worship” and “love”) Especially when it can be used to “shun” certain people who use it. Except in the Creed. 🙂
 
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