Actually I did read it. Why shouldn’t I cite Wikipedia? Is there anything wrong with the information in my post? If so, what precisely?Cristian B, I can’t help but come to the conclusion that you didn’t quote most of my post not because you wanted to save space, but because you didn’t actually read it. I explained pretty much everything you said in my essay. So please double check it. Also, never cite wikipedia. The only reason I referenced it is because it had a nice easy to read map.
Also, I am not a “Roman” Catholic. Technically, there is no such thing as a Roman Catholic. There is Catholicism. Some members of the Church are of the Latin Rite, which is sometimes incorrectly called “Roman”, but the word itself was originally a Protestant insult.
You shouldn’t cite wikipedia because anyone can edit it. I’m certainly not accusing you of this, as I don’t think you tried to pull this move, but I have debated with more than one person who goes to the relevant wikipedia article, EDITS it to say what they want, and then immediately cites it as a source of information to me. (Hilarity usually ensues if someone reverts the change within minutes.) The point is, anyone can edit it. Wikipedia is a great place to go for the citations it uses, but not the info itself.Actually I did read it. Why shouldn’t I cite Wikipedia? Is there anything wrong with the information in my post? If so, what precisely?
Well, you were actually talking about one Church, which sits on one hill, not seven. And while St. John’s may sit on one of the hills of Rome (I can’t tell from your picture), the point is that it sits on ONE of the hills, not all seven of them. It has to sit on ALL seven for it to count. So, no, I did not get it wrong.And the only reason I made the previous post is that you got it wrong. The Catholic Church is on one of the seven hills. You talked about where the Catholic Church didn’t meet the criteria of being on Rome. Well, it actually is. So you were wrong at that point.
I don’t know off the top of my head about Rev 13:11 but the SDA refers to the Pope as the Beast in Rev 13:18 where it speaks of the number 666. Patrick Madrid in his book “Pope Fiction” answers this. I thought it was funny where he shows that the founder of the SDA, Ellen Gould White, could be the Beast. Her name, using their own method used to prove the Pope is the Beast, in Latin is: L + L + V + L + D + V + V + I = 666.I have been searching this forum to see if there is something on this topic but could not find one so I thought that I’d ask an ex-Adventist or any knowledgeable Catholic to comment on the SDA doctrine of the beast of Revelation 13:11= The Catholic Church. I don’t have a commentary on the book of Revelation and the one that I would like to get (Scott Hahn’s) is too expensive for our budget just now. Also, does anyone know if there is a Catholic commentary on the book of Revelation on the internet?
Thanks,
Annie
Why not wealthy? chick.com materials have alleged gold in Fort Knox belonging to the Church, for example. There are a billion Catholics and many of them give offerings, some of which make it to the top…Welcome to the boards, Chris.
Which passage do you take to mean a small country? Rev 17 talks of a wealthy nation, which the Vatican certainly is not.
The key word here is that Chick ALLEGES. He has no evidence for his claim. No indication or trend in church activities to indicate this. Where did he get this idea from?Why not wealthy? chick.com materials have alleged gold in Fort Knox belonging to the Church, for example. There are a billion Catholics and many of them give offerings, some of which make it to the top…
Incidentally what do the Catholics say about tithing?
We don’t need tracts that lie and perjure.If that what floats your boat I really feel sorrow for you.Haven’t your own writings (Pope Innocent for example) made the pope sound like he is exalted as God?
Pope Innocent III “He judges all and is judged by no one”
Pope Boniface VIII “We declare, assert, define, and pronounce, to be subject to the Roman pontiff is to every human creature altogether necessary for salvation”
Pope Leo XIII: “We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty”
Sounds like Vicar of the Son of God to me… your words, not mine
chick.com/reading/tracts/0071/0071_01.asp
Also discusses purgatory and Eucharist
You all need some tracts of your own.
A lot of people on the threads do that-hmm .I wonder?AntiChrist would be a man who exalts himself to be God.
Arrogance.If Paul was working out his salvation in fear and trembling -what makes you better or anyone else any better.As far as anything else written it is plain that your ignorance of things Catholic is enormous indeed.SDA 's dogma of anti- catholicism is an ugly foul-smelling remnant of SDA’s origins in the 1840’s.Hatred has become a relgious “mitzvah” for the SDA-I couldn’t think of a more un-christlike thing to do then to perpetrate hatred. As far as the “Sabbath” keeping nonsense- that little chestnut has bee cracked long ago.It is plain unalduterated nonsense that any one with some intelligence could discover by merely picking up a history book.In fact posts of many pages have been posted time and again from non-catholic sources that disprove SDA rubbish.But you’ll have been so brainwashed that to pick up a book of history unapproved by your church is anathema.Ignorance truly is bliss!A wafer doesn’t save me. It probably adds some calories to my fat body though.
I’m not going to purgatory.
I am absolutely assured of going straight to Heaven (gasp).
My God is not in Rome He’s in Heaven.
It is very simple and liberating. I asked Jesus to save me and help me live His way. Finito. It is finished. I need not fear the domination of anyone. What I do for Jesus is gratitude (a nice big tip) and helps save others who watch me.
We have shepherds at the local level to help us read and understand our Bibles and places to fellowship. It does require discernment to know if they are submissive to the Lord, not every pastor is. More Bible study and quiet time are going to be needed for life.
I know that the Spirit represents power (more love, more patience, more joy than before) and guidance (seeing life differently than before).
Again, the sarcasm is uncharitable and suggests you’re just here to waste our time.I want to buy that book for $25 about why the Bible apparently tells Catholics to call the Pope father when Isaiah said don’t call any person father, etc.
The contrapositive is not true - that an honest Catholic hasn’t the option. The majority of priests are in line with doctrine. A few do step out of line and most are called on it either by visiting clergy or by a Catholic in the congregation who is knowledgeable about the faith.The difference between many systems and one system give an honest Protestant options to leave, for example, when conscience dictates that the pastor is out of line with Scripture
I think too much is made of what the Pope could do as opposed to what he actually does. It is rare for a Pope to do or say something without the support of the College of Cardinals, a body of the most senior, educated and experienced clergy, from which the Pope is chosen. I can only think of one example in church history (dating back 500 years) when the Pope exhorted doctrine over the objections of the Cardinals. No, the Papacy tends to be a very conservative office, and if we had a Pope declare something absurd or heretical (such as “Jesus never actually existed”) we’d see some form of action taken to remove him from power. That may not be on the books, but the Cardinals are educated men who understand that the Magisterium must not deviate from orthodox doctrine except after exhaustive deliberation (as when the doctrine of limbo was called into question a few years ago).The Pope serves for life regardless, I don’t suppose any human or humans oversee him.
Back to your valid concern.The major difference between say one Protestant church (Baptist) and the Catholic church is the difference between heterogeneous and homogeneous.
May such a happenstance never befall you.If I was stuck with a pastor like Phelps,
Embezzlement and adultery are bright-line issues about which there should be no contention, and the process of calling such a pastor on the carpet as in Mt 18 should be a formality. What about theological dispute? The difficulty in carrying out Mt 18 is who ultimately decides who is right? If 300 of your 500 parishoners side against you, do you acquiesce to the majority, take the other 200 and start your own church, or do you kick them out and claim rightful leadership of the church property - since churches are often non-profit corporations that own their own buildings and land?I could cite said Scripture, and in many churches, there is a procedure to discipline or remove an unrepentant embezzling or womanizing pastor.
One would hope that the cause of discernment would lead one to take a leadership role in the church. I’m sorry to hear about the fracture yours suffered, and I hope you’ve not lost friendships as a result. I don’t think any church is immune to it, only that each approaches the threat of schism differently according to its organization.If nothing else, a mature Christian who is discerning can leave. We lost Christians because we had a female (and otherwise disciplined) pastor for some time, and they could not abide by Scriptural requirements for a woman not to lead a man.
Yes, but …So the Catholic Church is seated on one of the seven hills because it’s throne, official seat of authority, or whatever you want to call it, is located on one of the seven ancient hills of Rome. Interesting.
Easy lad, it’s common enough usage. Bear in mind that Calvinist and Anglican Protestants have an understanding of catholicity (universality) which is not co-equal with Catholicism (us). Adding Roman is easy demarcation, though I think presently it would be sufficient to just use “Catholic”.Also, I am not a “Roman” Catholic. Technically, there is no such thing as a Roman Catholic. There is Catholicism. Some members of the Church are of the Latin Rite, which is sometimes incorrectly called “Roman”, but the word itself was originally a Protestant insult.
That’s a unique position on the undersatnding of the Spirit. I think it’s more commonly believed that the Spirit is not given until after one responds to faith, such that only Christians - those who believe in Christ - have access to the gifts of the Spirit.The resident advisor I mistook for Buddhist was actually Christian (indwelt at least) and neither of us seemed to know it. I had actually met the Holy Spirit as a passenger in her mind, if not a driver. Perhaps if I had known earlier I might have been saved earlier.
Just a point of information, we probably do have churches on every hill in Italy. There are also probably Protestant churches on each of the seven hills in Rome. The geography is not so important as the reference - the metaphor of the Harlot sitting on Seven Hills is that it refers to Pagan Rome in the 1st century. The reference to seven hills would have been well-understood certainly by those living there or within the Empire as well as those who were familiar with lyrical references (including Virgil and others, I believe).It has to sit on ALL seven for it to count. So, no, I did not get it wrong.
You said small country - that’s what I don’t see in Rev.Why not wealthy? chick.com materials have alleged gold in Fort Knox belonging to the Church, for example. There are a billion Catholics and many of them give offerings, some of which make it to the top…
See, when I read something that absurd, I ask for the source and I don’t expect to get an answer. I don’t mean Chick, I mean who Chick got it from. As with “My Name … In the Vatican?” it’s a story so opposed to reality that I just reject it on face. So I expect he either made it up or heard it from someone less than credible. Even if it were true, where would this information be available? And how much gold are talking about?chick.com materials have alleged gold in Fort Knox belonging to the Church, for example
The Church asks us to be generous but doesn’t set an amount. We don’t see the Mosaic rule of the tithe (giving of 10% of income) to be binding in the New Covenant, though the spirit of supporting ministry as one is able is binding.Incidentally what do the Catholics say about tithing?