Question for X-SDA or knowledgeable Catholic

[TruthWave]

I have been searching this forum to see if there is something on this topic but could not find one so I thought that I’d ask an ex-Adventist or any knowledgeable Catholic to comment on the SDA doctrine of the beast of Revelation 13:11= The Catholic Church. I don’t have a commentary on the book of Revelation and the one that I would like to get (Scott Hahn’s) is too expensive for our budget just now. Also, does anyone know if there is a Catholic commentary on the book of Revelation on the internet?

Thanks,

Annie

FYI, Every Protestant Reformer from Wycliff to Spurgeon (500 years) viewed the Papacy as the Antichrist.

 

[TruthWave]

Pure speculation. Stick with the father’s and the teachings of the true Church. A lot of our protestant “brethren” it seems believe such lies about holy mother Church. If that is the case, then they would have to conclude that St. Peter was the first anti-Christ!!

The Reformers from Wycliff to Spurgeon pinned the label of Antichrist on the Papacy.

 

[StTommyMore]

The Reformers from Wycliff to Spurgeon pinned the label of Antichrist on the Papacy.

And every last one of them was wrong

 

[TruthWave]

And every last one of them was wrong

Says, who? The Reformers were for the most part former Catholics, Martin Luther, the most well known one. Luther felt the wrath of the Papacy, and rebuked his pompous claims as being Pontifex Maximus, and name take directly from the Pagan Roman Emperors.

 

[StTommyMore]

Says, who? The Reformers were for the most part former Catholics, Martin Luther, the most well known one. Luther felt the wrath of the Papacy, and rebuked his pompous claims as being Pontifex Maximus, and name take directly from the Pagan Roman Emperors.

Let me put it to you this way, there is no Scriptural basis for identifying the papacy with the Antichrist. I John 2:22:

Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son.

This does not describe the papacy. In fact the papacy depends on the very thing the Antichrist denies. That makes EVERY ONE WHO CLAIMS THAT THE PAPACY THE ANTICHRIST A LIAR.

 

[TruthWave]

Let me put it to you this way, there is no Scriptural basis for identifying the papacy with the Antichrist. I John 2:22:

This does not describe the papacy. In fact the papacy depends on the very thing the Antichrist denies. That makes EVERY ONE WHO CLAIMS THAT THE PAPACY THE ANTICHRIST A LIAR.

The Papacy denies the Father and Son by exalting himself in place of Jesus as the Vicar of Christ, and taking titles like Pontifex Maximus.

 

[StTommyMore]

The Papacy denies the Father and Son by exalting himself in place of Jesus as the Vicar of Christ, and taking titles like Pontifex Maximus.

You are talking nonsense now. Taking the title “Vicar of Christ” simply affirms Jesus as the Davidic King. The Pope, the Successor of Peter, was an office established by Jesus Christ, and fulfills an Old Testament type.

 

[Pythons]

The Papacy denies the Father and Son by exalting himself in place of Jesus as the Vicar of Christ, and taking titles like Pontifex Maximus.

What business does a person who rejects the Trinity have in claiming another does injustice to it?
…Ellen White was Arian and gloated that Christ was Michael the archangel.
…& also that Christ could have “sinned” & had He sinned “God” would have annihilated Him.
…And that Christ would forever pass into non-existence.

Here are some gems from Ellen White…
…That demonstrate her rejection of the Trinity.
Ellen White Seventh Day Adventist Prophet:

To the honor and glory of God, His beloved Son – the Surety, the Substitute – was delivered up and descended into the prisonhouse of the grave. The new tomb enclosed Him in its rocky chambers. **If one single sin had tainted His character **the stone would never have been rolled away from the door of His rocky chamber, and the world with its burden of guilt would have perished.” (Ellen G. White, Ms. 81, 1893, p. 11, Diary entry for Sunday, July 2, 1893, Wellington, New Zealand)

Seventh Day Adventist Sabbath School Lesson:

"Christ assumed, not the original unfallen, but our fallen humanity. In this second experiment, He stood not precisely where Adam before Him had, but, as has already been said, with immense odds against Him — evil, with all the prestige of victory and its consequent enthronement in the very constitution of our nature, armed with more terrific power against the possible realization of this divine idea of man — perfect holiness.” (SS Lesson Quarterly, 1st quarter 1921, Our Personal Saviour Jesus Christ, page 14, Lesson 5 for January 29th 1921, ‘The Purpose of the Incarnation’)

Ellen White:

Satan in heaven had hated Christ for His position in the courts of God. He hated Him the more when he himself was dethroned. He hated Him who pledged Himself to redeem a race of sinners. Yet into the world where Satan claimed dominion God permitted His Son to come, a helpless babe, subject to the weakness of humanity. He permitted Him to meet life’s peril in common with every human soul, to fight the battle as every child of humanity must fight it, at the risk of failure and eternal loss.” (Ellen G. White, The Desire of Ages. Page 49 ‘Unto you a Saviour’)

Ellen White:

“Remember that Christ risked all; “tempted like as we are,” **he staked even his own **eternal existence ****upon the issue of the conflict.” (Ellen G. White, General Conference Bulletin 1st December 1895 ‘Seeking the Lost’, Week of Prayer reading for Sabbath December 28th 1895)

Ellen White:

For a period of time Christ was on probation. He took humanity on Himself, to stand the test and trial which the first Adam failed to endure. Had He failed in His test and trial, He would have been disobedient to the voice of God, and the world would have been lost.” (Ellen G. White, Signs of the Times 10th May 1899, ‘Christ glorified’)

Ellen White:

Could Satan in the least particular have tempted Christ to sin, he would have bruised the Saviour’s head. As it was, he could only touch His heel. Had the head of Christ been touched, the hope of the human race would have perished. **Divine wrath would have come upon Christ **as it came upon Adam. Christ and the Church would have been without hope.” (Ellen G. White, Signs of the Times, June 9th 1898, see also Selected Messages Book 1 page 256)

Ellen White:

The Eternal Father,** the unchangeable one**, gave his only begotten Son, tore from his bosom Him who was made in the express image of his person, and sent him down to earth to reveal how greatly he loved mankind." (Ellen G. White, Review & Herald 9th July 1895 ‘The Duty of the Minister and the People’)

Unlike the Council of Nicaea which stated that The Son was NOT able to mutate from Holy God to sinner then cease to exist…
…Ellen White gloated that Christ was “mutable” & “changable” and had He sinned.
…Eternal God would have flicked him off the picnic table into the bbq.
…Like a bored kid at the park does.
Ellen White:

Christ bore the sins of the whole world. He endured our punishment, – the wrath of God against transgression. His trial involved the fierce temptation of thinking that he was forsaken by God. His soul was tortured by the pressure of a horror of great darkness lest he should swerve from his uprightness during the terrible ordeal. He could not have been tempted in all points like as man is tempted had there been no possibility of his failing. He was a free agent, placed on probation, as was Adam and as is man.” (Ellen G. White, Manuscript 29, 1899, pp 4, 5. “Sacrificed for Us”, typed March 17, 1899, see also ‘Youth Instructor, 20th July 1899)

 

[Pythons]

Now - all the above heretical teachings can be crushed with the Hammer of Sacred Scripture…
…Which tells us the Council of Nicaea was RIGHT!

Isaiah 35:4 “**Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come **with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you.”

So, long prior to the Incarnation - Sacred Scripture assues us that God would come…
…And that God WOULD SAVE US ( not would if He didn’t sin! ).

How about some New Testament Scripture!

Luke 2: 26 "And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord’s Christ.

**And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law,

Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said, Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:**

**For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, **Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;

My point, truthwave - is that there are a whole bunch more quotes from Ellen White…
…That teach the other direction from Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition.
…There are also a whole bunch more Scriptures that speak of the impossibility of Christ sinning!