Question for you Catholics

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someperson555

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So I’m just curious what your opinion is about this.
My whole life I always vowed that if anyone would try to enslave me or kidnap me, I would resist, even unto death if necessary. I don’t believe suicide is wrong under certain circumstances. Like, I just saw a documentary about a Christian missionary who was kidnapped in the Philippines. I thought throughout the whole thing “well I would never let them kidnap me. I’d just fight to the death.” But then I thought isn’t that technically suicide? Just for the record, I don’t think suicide is wrong, but I’m just interested in the Catholic perspective of this scenario. So in conclusion, does Catholic teaching force a victim to obey his aggressors? Example, person a enslaves person b. Person a tells person b that if he refuses to work, he will be killed. Person b would rather die than live his life in servitude. So he refuses to work and is killed for it. Did person b commit a sin?
 
someperson555 said:
So I’m just curious what your opinion is about this.
My whole life I always vowed that if anyone would try to enslave me or kidnap me, I would resist, even unto death if necessary. I don’t believe suicide is wrong under certain circumstances. Like, I just saw a documentary about a Christian missionary who was kidnapped in the Philippines. I thought throughout the whole thing “well I would never let them kidnap me. I’d just fight to the death.” But then I thought isn’t that technically suicide? Just for the record, I don’t think suicide is wrong, but I’m just interested in the Catholic perspective of this scenario. So in conclusion, does Catholic teaching force a victim to obey his aggressors? Example, person a enslaves person b. Person a tells person b that if he refuses to work, he will be killed. Person b would rather die than live his life in servitude. So he refuses to work and is killed for it. Did person b commit a sin?
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It’s very similar to the teaching on Euthanasia -
Catechism of the Catholic Church:
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a5.htm

Euthanasia

2276 Those whose lives are diminished or weakened deserve special respect. Sick or handicapped persons should be helped to lead lives as normal as possible.

2277 Whatever its motives and means, direct euthanasia consists in putting an end to the lives of handicapped, sick, or dying persons. It is morally unacceptable.

Thus an act or omission which, of itself or by intention, causes death in order to eliminate suffering constitutes a murder gravely contrary to the dignity of the human person and to the respect due to the living God, his Creator. The error of judgment into which one can fall in good faith does not change the nature of this murderous act, which must always be forbidden and excluded.

2278 Discontinuing medical procedures that are burdensome, dangerous, extraordinary, or disproportionate to the expected outcome can be legitimate; it is the refusal of “over-zealous” treatment. **Here one does not will to cause death; one’s inability to impede it is merely accepted. **The decisions should be made by the patient if he is competent and able or, if not, by those legally entitled to act for the patient, whose reasonable will and legitimate interests must always be respected.

2279 Even if death is thought imminent, the ordinary care owed to a sick person cannot be legitimately interrupted. The use of painkillers to alleviate the sufferings of the dying, even at the risk of shortening their days, can be morally in conformity with human dignity if death is not willed as either an end or a means, but only foreseen and tolerated as inevitable Palliative care is a special form of disinterested charity. As such it should be encouraged.
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I bolded the part I mean to emphasize. Just under this in the Catechism is the teaching on suicide.

In regards to the examples you give, it’s the same distinction made in the teachings on Euthanasia, regarding the one which is directly willed, and the one that is a foreseeable but unintended consequence.

Person B did not commit suicide, he was killed by person A.

If someone was going to kidnap me, I would like to think id fight back even if that meant death, but if I did and they killed me, that would not be suicide, since I did not directly will my own death, even if that was a foreseeable consequence of fighting back.

Catholic teaching does not force a victim to obey their oppressors.

Suicide is always wrong because we don’t know what God has in store for us, so it’s not our call to make, there have been many times and instances in history where all has seemed hopeless and lost, yet they won. If they had deemed it hopeless and lost, and killed themselves, they will be before God who actually had victory or some other important purpose in store for them but because of their blindness and lack of trust, threw it away and is then lost forever.

I hope this has helped

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
“Fighting to the death” to avoid capture or servitude is not suicide, as your intent is not to end your own life but to – if possible - get away and continue to live. We are not under any requirement to peacefully submit to being captured or enslaved or anything else an attacker might want to do to us, in order to avoid a sin.

Once you are past the point of resistance and are definitely captured, if you then deliberately choose to kill yourself (let’s say by hanging yourself in your cell or taking a poison pill you had in your pocket) then you may be committing the sin of suicide, but your sinfulness may be lessened if you were under some great mental stress such as fear of torture, or actually suffering some torture, in captivity.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
“Fighting to the death” to avoid capture or servitude is not suicide, as your intent is not to end their own life but to – if possible - get away and continue to live. We are not under any requirement to peacefully submit to being captured or enslaved or anything else an attacker might want to do to us, in order to avoid a sin.

Once you are past the point of resistance and are definitely captured, if you then deliberately choose to kill yourself (let’s say by hanging yourself in your cell or taking a poison pill you had in your pocket) then you may be committing the sin of suicide, but your sinfulness may be lessened if you were under some great mental stress such as fear of torture, or actually suffering some torture, in captivity.
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👍

Call to mind the 2003 film ‘The Count of Monte Cristo’ where in one scene while he was in prison was attempting to kill himself. Sure would have been a ****** and awful movie had he succeeded. Especially considering what was in store for him.

Or consider Louie Zamperini’s story of WWII imprisonment, and what would have been lost had he decided to end it there and then.

God Bless You

Josh
 
Suicide is the willful and deliberate taking of one’s own life, It is an act of defiance of the will of God. Two totally different things. We are permitted to defend ourselves.
Martyrs refuse to dent Christ. That’s also a totally different thing.
 
someperson555 said:
So I’m just curious what your opinion is about this.
My whole life I always vowed that if anyone would try to enslave me or kidnap me, I would resist, even unto death if necessary. I don’t believe suicide is wrong under certain circumstances. Like, I just saw a documentary about a Christian missionary who was kidnapped in the Philippines. I thought throughout the whole thing “well I would never let them kidnap me. I’d just fight to the death.” But then I thought isn’t that technically suicide? Just for the record, I don’t think suicide is wrong, but I’m just interested in the Catholic perspective of this scenario. So in conclusion, does Catholic teaching force a victim to obey his aggressors? Example, person a enslaves person b. Person a tells person b that if he refuses to work, he will be killed. Person b would rather die than live his life in servitude. So he refuses to work and is killed for it. Did person b commit a sin?
Click to expand...
Fearfulness can cause suicidal thoughts. Our Lord Jesus Christ is always at your side. Faith in Him allows us to withstand anything.
 
You couldn’t always fight to the death, as a 5’2 woman I reckon two or more average men could easily manhandle me into a van without having to kill me.

As to the moral dilemma a person in that sort of fight to the death situation would probably be in such a panic they wouldn’t intend anything, they would be acting on instinct.
 
St. Patrick was kidnapped from Britain and taken as a slave to Ireland. Years later, he escaped and fled back to his homeland. He later went back to Ireland to bring Christianity there. The Christian missionary who was kidnapped in the Philippines may have held the hope that some good would result from his/her abduction.
St. Patrick biography
 
Everyone is different, so everyone would react differently, but here is an example of what the Catholic Church teaches and holds up for us to follow.

Go to google and type in “life of St. Vincent de Paul”.

What an amazing Saint, who if he had killed himself or fought to the death would have deprived the world, literally, of so much good even through today!
 
On the flip side we have St. Maria Goretti who literally did fight to the death against a rapist.
There are likely many Catholic martyrs who fought to the death as well.
 
I don’t mean to throw a monkey wrench into this, because I’d hope to fight to the very end myself, but Jesus didn’t.

Of course, he was following a different plan at the time.
 
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