Question from a confused pagan on the Anti-Catholic Catholics

[cyberwolf001]

Simple question.

Why do so many Catholics want to get rid of the Rosary, the chaplets, scapulars, formula prayers (glory be, hail mary, litanies ect.), saint’s devotions, medals and so forth.

There is also the hate on for the old TLM Mass ( as a Druid I love it! ) and latin in general…

But these kind of Catholics seem to love the speaking in tounges and rolling on the floor charismatic deal, which reminds me a lot fo voudou and trust me I’ve seen voudou it is the exact same thing, okay we can argue source but if you get a chance youtube them side by side.

So why are some Catholics out to make there own church just another protestant denomination?

I just don’t get it!

 

[KC91]

Well Pope Paul VI said in the 1970s that the smoke of satan had slipped into Christ’s Church.

Basically some rebels with non-Catholic beliefs chose to stay inside the Church to cause more damage and have more influence as they know the negative consequences for those who split off from the Church (eg one domination splitting up into several dozen)

Fortunately after JPII and B16 most of them are gone but unfortunately some of them remain.

 

[Trishie]

I think you may be being a little black and white about your division of Catholics. I believe there is more of this in the Forum than in the real world, (yet even so, your comments are still extreme generalizations) and in any of the parishes I’ve been in over the years, and I have been very involved in all of them, none have been like the situation you describe, but are communities of good sincere Catholics living respectfully and peacefully, without either extreme!

 

[KC91]

Well maybe not so much in the United States as with some exceptions most of the Bishops there are doctrinally fine but in some countries such as France there is very high tension between different ‘types’ of Catholics. For example -

blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/100021534/dramatic-footage-of-a-trendy-bishop-being-booed-by-mass-goers/

 

[rep140]

But these kind of Catholics seem to love the speaking in tounges and rolling on the floor charismatic deal, which reminds me a lot fo voudou and trust me I’ve seen voudou it is the exact same thing, okay we can argue source but if you get a chance youtube them side by side.

This reminds me of a “healing Mass” we had in our parish. I thought we would be offering prayers for the ill since that was the case when I went to one before. I wanted to pray for
a very ill relative. What a surprise I got!

People would come to the front of the church where a priest put his hand on your head.
His lips looked like he might be praying, but he said nothing. When this started I wondered why 2 guys stood behind the prayee. Some of the people being prayed upon closed their eyes and flopped backward. The 2 guys were the “catchers”. One very large person fell backwards and nearly bowled over the catchers.

Attending that Mass was like voodoo to me. An experience I’ll not repeat.

 

[cyberwolf001]

I think you may be being a little black and white about your division of Catholics. I believe there is more of this in the Forum than in the real world, (yet even so, your comments are still extreme generalizations) and in any of the parishes I’ve been in over the years, and I have been very involved in all of them, none have been like the situation you describe, but are communities of good sincere Catholics living respectfully and peacefully, without either extreme!

I’ll tell ya like I do my fellow Pagans. Tell me another way to talk about a large group of people that is short, to the point and address major issues and I’ll use it.

This reminds me of a “healing Mass” we had in our parish. I thought we would be offering prayers for the ill since that was the case when I went to one before. I wanted to pray for a very ill relative. What a surprise I got!

People would come to the front of the church where a priest put his hand on your head.
His lips looked like he might be praying, but he said nothing. When this started I wondered why 2 guys stood behind the prayee. Some of the people being prayed upon closed their eyes and flopped backward. The 2 guys were the “catchers”. One very large person fell backwards and nearly bowled over the catchers.

Attending that Mass was like voodoo to me. An experience I’ll not repeat.

Interesting story an atheist was sent up and when he didn’t fall was bulled him into faking it and a few of the followers end up that way from cocusions. (spelling?)

 

[JRKH]

Simple question.

Why do so many Catholics want to get rid of the Rosary, the chaplets, scapulars, formula prayers (glory be, hail mary, litanies ect.), saint’s devotions, medals and so forth.

There is also the hate on for the old TLM Mass ( as a Druid I love it! ) and latin in general…

But these kind of Catholics seem to love the speaking in tounges and rolling on the floor charismatic deal, which reminds me a lot fo voudou and trust me I’ve seen voudou it is the exact same thing, okay we can argue source but if you get a chance youtube them side by side.

So why are some Catholics out to make there own church just another protestant denomination?

I just don’t get it!

I share your confusion, but I also agree with Trichie that you are painting with a pretty broad brush here.
One needs to think of the Church a bit more openly for there are many modes of spirituality within the Church. This includes everything from the very traditional to the very modern. It includes everything from couples with large families to celibate religious brothers and sisters and clergy. It includes the broad western Church as well as a number of eastern rites who have their own uniques practices.

But overall - I’m glad we have a Church that embraces all of these modes of spirituality. From Gregorian Chant to “guitar masses” in an open field. From the TLM to the “New Mass”. From the vocation of Marriage to the Hermit.

Now there are those who carry traditionalism or modernism too far and fail to respect the journeys and private devotions of others. There are those who fail to recognize the fundamental need for the authority of the Magisterium and the even greater need for us to submit to the magisterium in humble obedience.
Not that I am completely denouncing dissidence, for those who argue learn; those who debate help the Church to more fully understand God’s will for us during our sojourn.

Yep the more l see of the Church, even with the warts, the more glad I am for her.

Peace
James

 

[livnlern]

To the OP, I’ve seen more of a return to these practices. There was a turning away awhile ago, maybe in the late 60s, early 70s and that affected a lot of people from my generation who were children learning about our faith at the time. We weren’t really taught the value and importance of saying the rosary or wearing a scapular. We were taught to feel like a part of the “community”, whatever that means!
But with John Paul II, things started to change and go back to former practices because they were seen in a new light. Many of the practicing Catholics I know say the rosary and wear holy medals or scapulars and say especially the Divine Mercy chaplet. I’m not saying that these practices are as common as they should be, but there has been a return to them and to a devotion to our Blessed Mother and just to the idea of our faith being an important part of daily life.

 

[AndyF]

Trishie:

How we live is not also the rule of ethics that drives and motivates us. This is an allusion. We have the peace and respect only because we abide by a moral standard, or, because we obey a darker motive that is content in leaving us at rest because we are where it thinks we should be. We can never be complacent while the Church’s heirarchy is under attack.

The Church is an autocracy. Authority and Power comes from the top down. Jesus didn’t tell his apostles to make a line of rocks so he can found each a Church that favors the whims of every Catholic, one of which is the bottom-to-top structure.

The OP sees this unrest and desires clarification and he is owed an explanation.

The answer is that throughout history many tried to change the Church and failed and there will be some in the future who will also try. The Catholic is to stand strong and firm in his resolve to back the Pope and his Ministry, that is his prime responsibility has a servant. Evidence in this case is the attacking of a pre-defined structure established by Christ.

The ministers today who are trying a bottom-to-top ministry are guilty of insubordination and insult Jesus who established the form and protocol.

Secondly, it is presumptive, as it assumes the final effects of the Holy Spirit’s inspiration through an edict can always be experientially seen in a timely manner to full completion of it’s design in our presence.

You will note we use a similar presumption for cases of abortion. The infant’s value becomes speculative prior to his being born. He is born and the mother rejects him and we say, “See, I told you so, we should have aborted.”. We make a premature decision because the full effect of God’s plan has not revealed itself. The abortion pre-empts God’s plan to have him born in poverty and to suffer, to be a discomfort to the world, but to be molded for loftier work in glorifying God, and even possibly to be proclaimed a saint.

Andy

 

[Neil_Anthony]

Simple question.

Why do so many Catholics want to get rid of the Rosary, the chaplets, scapulars, formula prayers (glory be, hail mary, litanies ect.), saint’s devotions, medals and so forth.

There is also the hate on for the old TLM Mass ( as a Druid I love it! ) and latin in general…

But these kind of Catholics seem to love the speaking in tounges and rolling on the floor charismatic deal, which reminds me a lot fo voudou and trust me I’ve seen voudou it is the exact same thing, okay we can argue source but if you get a chance youtube them side by side.

So why are some Catholics out to make there own church just another protestant denomination?

I just don’t get it!

I think a lot of older Catholics remember a time when rules and traditions were emphasized more than having a personal relationship with God. They remember saying the rosary as fast as they could to earn indulgences, they remember attending mass in a language they didn’t understand in order to avoid committing mortal sin, etc. Also they remember superstitious devotions to saints. They welcome the changes to the church that reduced the emphasis on traditions and regulations and encouraged a more biblically based and more open way of worshipping God.

Others agree that there were problems in the past, but they think the baby was thrown out with the bathwater when the reforms were made in the 1960’s. These people see a lot of value the ancient traditions, and in devotion to saints, and would prefer to keep them.

Another difference is that some people want a more logical and modern religion that they feel appeals more to the modern world, while others like ceremony and tradition because they feel that it brings a much-needed holiness into the modern world.

There is room for different spiritualities in the Church. We don’t all have to be the same to be catholic, we just have to agree on certain central dogmas. These emphases are different spiritualities based on people’s different personalities.

 

[Onegin]

Simple question.

Why do so many Catholics want to get rid of the Rosary, the chaplets, scapulars, formula prayers (glory be, hail mary, litanies ect.), saint’s devotions, medals and so forth.

There is also the hate on for the old TLM Mass ( as a Druid I love it! ) and latin in general…

But these kind of Catholics seem to love the speaking in tounges and rolling on the floor charismatic deal, which reminds me a lot fo voudou and trust me I’ve seen voudou it is the exact same thing, okay we can argue source but if you get a chance youtube them side by side.

So why are some Catholics out to make there own church just another protestant denomination?

I just don’t get it!

Answer: Because the vast majority of Catholics are confused and do not know their faith so upon criticism from other denominations they water down their own practices, not knowing why they had them to begin with.

 

[LittleSoldier]

Simple question.

Why do so many Catholics want to get rid of the Rosary, the chaplets, scapulars, formula prayers (glory be, hail mary, litanies ect.), saint’s devotions, medals and so forth.

I have neve heard of any Catholics who want to get rid of such things as you describe, but I am sure they exist. However, I would like to know where in Catholic Doctrine it states that we must use medals, scapulars, etc. The use of those items is not mandatory - their use is a gift that unfortunately some refuse to receive.

What I have seen is a mass (no pun intended) move toward these very things: I wear a scapular, I pray the Rosary, I say those prayers, well obviously, as many are part of the Rosary. Catholics are not automatically saints. We sin and we err, but Church Doctrine is Truth. I’m not seeing what you are seeing so perhaps some of it is due to geographical differences (I live in a small town in the Pacific Northwest) or SES or something like that.

There is also the hate on for the old TLM Mass ( as a Druid I love it! ) and latin in general…

You might love it even more if you were Catholic and able to participate in the Holy Eucharist. The Mass is a lot more than just the Latin language and the Gregorian Chant, both of which are beautiful on their own, but as part of a Catholic Mass they are a different way of expression. The Holy Eucharist still exists. Whether a Mass is in English or Spanish or German or Latin really makes no difference. It is still the Mass. I have never heard anyone, Catholic or non-Catholic, express any form of “hate” for the Latin Mass (I assume that’s what you mean by “TLM” - it would help if you would define this). Personally, I love it, although as a child it confused and bored me because I didn’t understand what was being said.

As for Latin, I have purchased the Rosetta Stone program for Latin. I have seen a lot of interest in this language.

But these kind of Catholics seem to love the speaking in tounges and rolling on the floor charismatic deal, which reminds me a lot fo voudou and trust me I’ve seen voudou it is the exact same thing, okay we can argue source but if you get a chance youtube them side by side.

Um, are you sure this is one coherent group you are speaking of: “Catholics” who hate the Latin Mass, hate the Latin language, don’t like scapulars, medals, “formula prayers” (sounds like prayers given to infants), etc., but who love to speak in tongues and roll on the floor? Where have you seen this? I’ve never seen this, but I did have the following experience:

I belonged to a group when I was a teenager. It wasn’t run by the priests in my parish but by two “Catholics.” When I told them I didn’t believe in demon possession they actually took my hands and, while in a Catholic Church, prayed for me to be possessed, but “just a little” so that I would know what it is like. I broke away from them and walked away. Bizarre behavior practiced by bizarre people. Even that wasn’t enough for me to break away from that group, but one night when one of them drove me home he made the remark that “all cats should be killed” (he liked dogs and had a couple that were trained to kill). I love cats (and dogs) and that stupid little remark finally did it. I never went back. Oh, BTW, I do believe in demon possession but I was not possessed.

But these people, although they called themselves “Catholic” were not teaching Church Doctrine. They had their own agenda and used the Catholic Church to advance it. They were strange people. The little group fell apart not too long after I quit. Now, looking back, I know I should have reported what they were doing but I was just a kid.

So why are some Catholics out to make there own church just another protestant denomination?

I just don’t get it!

Because that is what some Catholics do. That is why there are so many protestant denominations. All Christians started in the Catholic Church - it was the Church founded by Jesus. But people here and there didn’t like this and that so they quit and founded their own “churches.” Why would it be any different now? I don’t understand it either, but it happens.

 

[LittleSoldier]

I’ll tell ya like I do my fellow Pagans. Tell me another way to talk about a large group of people that is short, to the point and address major issues and I’ll use it.

You can’t conceive of a way to do this, so somehow because of this your way is OK?? I don’t think so. Broad generalizations and blanket statements tend to obscure the truth rather than shedding light on it. If you really want suggestions on how to talk about a “large group of people” I would suggest that you look at one aspect at a time and not link aspects that perhaps are not related to each other.

This is how I learned to conduct research in psychology. It’s a good method and tends to help clarify rather than to muddle issues.

Yeah I know, it doesn’t address major issues all at once. But maybe you shouldn’t address major issues all at once. Maybe you should address each issue separately and once you have accumulated all the evidence you can on each issue you can start grouping the issues together. It’s a long, involved process and absolutely necessary if you really want to understand whatever “group” you are studying.

Interesting story an atheist was sent up and when he didn’t fall was bulled him into faking it and a few of the followers end up that way from cocusions. (spelling?)

It’s “concussions.”

 

[bpbasilphx]

\Why do so many Catholics want to get rid of the Rosary, the chaplets, scapulars, formula prayers (glory be, hail mary, litanies ect.), saint’s devotions, medals and so forth.

There is also the hate on for the old TLM Mass ( as a Druid I love it! ) and latin in general…

But these kind of Catholics seem to love the speaking in tounges and rolling on the floor charismatic deal, which reminds me a lot fo voudou and trust me I’ve seen voudou it is the exact same thing, okay we can argue source but if you get a chance youtube them side by side.\

**I’ve not met a single Charismatic Catholic who wants to get rid of any traditional devotion. There are even those who prefer the Extraordinary Form.

Have you actually met any Catholics who PRACTICE their faith who want to suppress the Rosary or such devotions?**

 

[Rence]

Simple question.
Why do so many Catholics want to get rid of the Rosary, the chaplets, scapulars, formula prayers (glory be, hail mary, litanies ect.), saint’s devotions, medals and so forth.

I don’t know any Catholics like this. Is this in your personal life experiences, or are you reading this somewhere? Even those in my life who don’t practice the faith don’t want to get rid of these things you listed, and certainly have their moments of praying the rosary, having metals, etc.

There is also the hate on for the old TLM Mass ( as a Druid I love it! ) and latin in general…

While I don’t hate the old TLM Mass, it’s not my first choice. I much prefer to hear the Mass in a language I can understand. Though the TLM Mass is beautiful, I just don’t prefer it.

But these kind of Catholics seem to love the speaking in tounges and rolling on the floor charismatic deal, which reminds me a lot fo voudou and trust me I’ve seen voudou it is the exact same thing, okay we can argue source but if you get a chance youtube them side by side.

**I have never seen Catholics roll around on the floor. Were the Catholics you knew drinking at the time? However, the only Catholics I knew that spoke in tongues were very traidtional and loved and lived by the above traditions you listed. **

So why are some Catholics out to make there own church just another protestant denomination? I just don’t get it!

You just don’t know practicing Catholics I’m suspecting…

 

[brotherhrolf]

I think a lot of older Catholics remember a time when rules and traditions were emphasized more than having a personal relationship with God. They remember saying the rosary as fast as they could to earn indulgences, they remember attending mass in a language they didn’t understand in order to avoid committing mortal sin, etc. Also they remember superstitious devotions to saints. They welcome the changes to the church that reduced the emphasis on traditions and regulations and encouraged a more biblically based and more open way of worshipping God.

Others agree that there were problems in the past, but they think the baby was thrown out with the bathwater when the reforms were made in the 1960’s. These people see a lot of value the ancient traditions, and in devotion to saints, and would prefer to keep them.

Another difference is that some people want a more logical and modern religion that they feel appeals more to the modern world, while others like ceremony and tradition because they feel that it brings a much-needed holiness into the modern world.

There is room for different spiritualities in the Church. We don’t all have to be the same to be catholic, we just have to agree on certain central dogmas. These emphases are different spiritualities based on people’s different personalities.

I have to say that this post is breathtaking. A personal relationship with Jesus? What could be more personal than kneeling in front of the Blessed Sacrament? What could be more personal than Forty Hours Devotion or Benediction? Quite frankly, I and many others on this forum who continually post that we did and do understand the Mass in Latin are getting tired of having this same tired myth brought up at every opportunity.

This post is almost Protestant in its breathtaking scope. These are all allegations that Protestants hurled at us back in those days. We were not some peasants in some backwoods village in a Dracula or Wolfman movie. I am a product of thirteen years of Catholic education and I was taught a great deal more about theology, etc. back then than my two sons ever got in their recent Catholic education. At the very least I knew my Baltimore Catechism far better than the watered down pap I found in my son’s religion textbooks.

To the OP. I am a medievalist and was a long time member of a medieval reenactment group. I have had several pagan friends - Norse and Celtic mythos. I am also an anthropologist by training. There is so much disinformation and deliberate distortion about “what things were like” that it makes me sick. I grew up before Vatican II and “am not dead yet, I’m feeling better”. I would take with a huge grain of salt these modern day folk-tales about what it was like back then.

From a strictly objective point of view, there have been massive changes and there are many of us who grew up in the pre-Vatican II church and never liked what happened in the years after.

I have no animus against non-traditional Catholics. I am not asking them to revert back to that which I grew up with. I have hoped and prayed for 45 years that we would come back to our senses and recognize what we have lost. The fact that my cathedral choir still chants hymns composed a thousand years ago and before never fails to impress me.

I am Catholic. My ancestors suffered for their religion in Ireland, England, and Scotland.
We take our own hard fought heritage and reduce it to superstition. What a shame.

 

[mmmcounts]

Simple question.

Why do so many Catholics want to get rid of the Rosary, the chaplets, scapulars, formula prayers (glory be, hail mary, litanies ect.), saint’s devotions, medals and so forth.

I think it has something to do with something that Father Greeley refers to as the “Catholic imagination.” You can read the first 21 pages of his book by that title…here.
books.google.com/books?id=WJqpMuDa7ycC&printsec=frontcover&cd=1&source=gbs_ViewAPI#v=onepage&q=&f=false

Simply put, there’s a way of looking at the world that, among Christians, is somewhat unique to Catholics. Greeley describes it. Some Catholics just don’t have it. I don’t know if I can explain exactly why that is, as Greeley doesn’t really say where and how this all came to be in the first place- he just describes what’s there. I suspect, however, that the Catholic imagination developed out of Latin Christianity in the Middle Ages and that it didn’t carry over for some people.

I think the Catholic imagination does describe the perspective of most Catholics, but you’re kind of focused on the ones where it doesn’t.

There is also the hate on for the old TLM Mass ( as a Druid I love it! ) and latin in general…

Again, Latin Christianity. Not carrying over. It happens, man. What can you do; try and convert the whole world to Latin? When you put it that way, it sounds a little bit silly.

But these kind of Catholics seem to love the speaking in tounges and rolling on the floor charismatic deal, which reminds me a lot fo voudou and trust me I’ve seen voudou it is the exact same thing, okay we can argue source but if you get a chance youtube them side by side.

I was never really feeling the tongues thing myself. But I guess some people feel like this is a way of experiencing a deeply personal and supernatural connection with God. In that regard, I think there’s a couple of things that are comparable between this and a few of the sacraments. There’s probably more differences than similarities, but the similarities are there in some cases.

So why are some Catholics out to make there own church just another protestant denomination?

Unless they’re trying to be Catholic without the sacraments, they aren’t. Why would you say that?

I just don’t get it!

I hope Father Greeley can be of some assistance.

 

[cyberwolf001]

I have neve heard of any Catholics who want to get rid of such things as you describe, but I am sure they exist. However, I would like to know where in Catholic Doctrine it states that we must use medals, scapulars, etc. The use of those items is not mandatory - their use is a gift that unfortunately some refuse to receive.

This I am aware of this lot and I use lot as even though there not a large coherent group they always seem to share the same traits.

What I have seen is a mass (no pun intended) move toward these very things: I wear a scapular, I pray the Rosary, I say those prayers, well obviously, as many are part of the Rosary. Catholics are not automatically saints. We sin and we err, but Church Doctrine is Truth. I’m not seeing what you are seeing so perhaps some of it is due to geographical differences (I live in a small town in the Pacific Northwest) or SES or something like that.

Could be some of this is from my time in the Church. Long story short, everything I did was wrong.

You might love it even more if you were Catholic and able to participate in the Holy Eucharist. The Mass is a lot more than just the Latin language and the Gregorian Chant, both of which are beautiful on their own, but as part of a Catholic Mass they are a different way of expression. The Holy Eucharist still exists. Whether a Mass is in English or Spanish or German or Latin really makes no difference. It is still the Mass. I have never heard anyone, Catholic or non-Catholic, express any form of “hate” for the Latin Mass (I assume that’s what you mean by “TLM” - it would help if you would define this). Personally, I love it, although as a child it confused and bored me because I didn’t understand what was being said.

I’ve consistantly heard the old mass called the TLM. Yes there seems to be massive hate for it, I mean look at all the work it took just to get it back in your Church.

Um, are you sure this is one coherent group you are speaking of: “Catholics” who hate the Latin Mass, hate the Latin language, don’t like scapulars, medals, “formula prayers” (sounds like prayers given to infants), etc., but who love to speak in tongues and roll on the floor? Where have you seen this? I’ve never seen this, but I did have the following experience:

If not a large coherent group as I noted above they do seem to all share the same traits.

**I’ve not met a single Charismatic Catholic who wants to get rid of any traditional devotion.

Have you actually met any Catholics who PRACTICE their faith who want to suppress the Rosary or such devotions?**

Yes.

I don’t know any Catholics like this. Is this in your personal life You just don’t know practicing Catholics I’m suspecting…

Somewhat, others are from this form and elsewhere.

I think it has something to do with something that Father Greeley refers to as the “Catholic imagination.” You can read the first 21 pages of his book by that title…here.
books.google.com/books?id=WJqpMuDa7ycC&printsec=frontcover&cd=1&source=gbs_ViewAPI#v=onepage&q=&f=false

Simply put, there’s a way of looking at the world that, among Christians, is somewhat unique to Catholics. Greeley describes it. Some Catholics just don’t have it. I don’t know if I can explain exactly why that is, as Greeley doesn’t really say where and how this all came to be in the first place- he just describes what’s there. I suspect, however, that the Catholic imagination developed out of Latin Christianity in the Middle Ages and that it didn’t carry over for some people.

I think the Catholic imagination does describe the perspective of most Catholics, but you’re kind of focused on the ones where it doesn’t.

Again, Latin Christianity. Not carrying over. It happens, man. What can you do; try and convert the whole world to Latin? When you put it that way, it sounds a little bit silly.

I was never really feeling the tongues thing myself. But I guess some people feel like this is a way of experiencing a deeply personal and supernatural connection with God. In that regard, I think there’s a couple of things that are comparable between this and a few of the sacraments. There’s probably more differences than similarities, but the similarities are there in some cases.

Unless they’re trying to be Catholic without the sacraments, they aren’t. Why would you say that?

I hope Father Greeley can be of some assistance.

Well keep in mind I am just an ex-Catholic that wonders about some Catholics wanting to rip there own faith to shreds. It’s like watching a religion try to commit suicide and it just boogles my mind.

Hope that was coherent, just got off my over night job so am a little @.@

 

[Lamafacaja]

Simple question.

Why do so many Catholics want to get rid of the Rosary, the chaplets, scapulars, formula prayers (glory be, hail mary, litanies ect.), saint’s devotions, medals and so forth.

There is also the hate on for the old TLM Mass ( as a Druid I love it! ) and latin in general…

But these kind of Catholics seem to love the speaking in tounges and rolling on the floor charismatic deal, which reminds me a lot fo voudou and trust me I’ve seen voudou it is the exact same thing, okay we can argue source but if you get a chance youtube them side by side.

So why are some Catholics out to make there own church just another protestant denomination?

I just don’t get it!

May I ask, are you an ex-Catholic?

 

[livnlern]

I think it has something to do with something that Father Greeley refers to as the “Catholic imagination.” You can read the first 21 pages of his book by that title…here.
books.google.com/books?id=WJqpMuDa7ycC&printsec=frontcover&cd=1&source=gbs_ViewAPI#v=onepage&q=&f=false

Simply put, there’s a way of looking at the world that, among Christians, is somewhat unique to Catholics. Greeley describes it. Some Catholics just don’t have it. I don’t know if I can explain exactly why that is, as Greeley doesn’t really say where and how this all came to be in the first place- he just describes what’s there. I suspect, however, that the Catholic imagination developed out of Latin Christianity in the Middle Ages and that it didn’t carry over for some people.

I think the Catholic imagination does describe the perspective of most Catholics, but you’re kind of focused on the ones where it doesn’t.

Again, Latin Christianity. Not carrying over. It happens, man. What can you do; try and convert the whole world to Latin? When you put it that way, it sounds a little bit silly.

I was never really feeling the tongues thing myself. But I guess some people feel like this is a way of experiencing a deeply personal and supernatural connection with God. In that regard, I think there’s a couple of things that are comparable between this and a few of the sacraments. There’s probably more differences than similarities, but the similarities are there in some cases.

Unless they’re trying to be Catholic without the sacraments, they aren’t. Why would you say that?

I hope Father Greeley can be of some assistance.

I can’t believe you’re quoting Andrew Greeley as some kind of authority on the Catholic faith. Isn’t he the guy who writes all those novels with sexy pictures on the covers? What kind of priest does this?