Question from a non-Catholic

[heartwood010]

Not being Catholic, I would like to ask a question. If being Christian means that you have a personal relationship with God, what then is the purpose of having intermediaries pray for you? I don’t understand why you need a priest, saints, Mary, or anyone else to intercede for you when you can talk directly to God your self. Why not just talk to God as you would talk to your parents or your best friend? I mean, isn’t that really the point of a personal relationship with God?

 

[ralphinal]

The problem is that we are not told to have a personal relationship with God that eliminates a relationship with others. We are told in the Bible that we are to care for our fellow man and to pray for each other without ceasing. Because Jesus explains that God is the God of the Living and not the dead, and the NT teaches that those who have died in Christ are alive, we can still follow Christ’s commands to pray for each other. In Revelation, for example, the angels are shown taking the prayers to God.

If you hold to the idea that asking another to pray for you is not needed, do you tell people that when that ask you for your prayers? Or is your answer “I will” and then you do pray for them?

 

[2nd_Adam]

The problem is that we are not told to have a personal relationship with God that eliminates a relationship with others. We are told in the Bible that we are to care for our fellow man and to pray for each other without ceasing. Because Jesus explains that God is the God of the Living and not the dead, and the NT teaches that those who have died in Christ are alive, we can still follow Christ’s commands to pray for each other. In Revelation, for example, the angels are shown taking the prayers to God.

If you hold to the idea that asking another to pray for you is not needed, do you tell people that when that ask you for your prayers? Or is your answer “I will” and then you do pray for them?

But Catholics do pray directly to God through Jesus Christ just like Protestants, correct?

This is a personal relationship with God. He is our Heavenly Father, and we are His adopted children through Jesus Christ.

For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” - Romans 8:15

And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” - Galatians 4:6

 

[ralphinal]

But Catholics do pray directly to God through Jesus Christ just like Protestants, correct?

This is a personal relationship with God. He is our Heavenly Father, and we are His adopted children through Jesus Chrsit.

For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” - Romans 8:15

And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” - Galatians 4:6

The vast majority of Catholic Prayers are directed to the Father through the Son.

Do non-Catholics pray for each other as Jesus told us to? Yes. To they ask others to pray for them? Yes. Do they trust Jesus when he said God is the God of the living and not the dead? And do they understand when it says that those who have died in Christ are not dead but are alive? If so, there should be no problem with asking those who are alive in Christ to pray for us

 

[heartwood010]

If you hold to the idea that asking another to pray for you is not needed, do you tell people that when that ask you for your prayers? Or is your answer “I will” and then you do pray for them?

I do indeed pray for those who ask.

I suppose I understand the concept, but I am not sure I understand why you chose to have others intercede when you can pray directly. I can agree with the concept that the more people you have praying for something, the better, but I cannot understand why you should use formulaic petitions to do so.

I can see asking Mary to pray for you, but I don’t understand why you have to use a specific prayer to do so.

 

[2nd_Adam]

The vast majority of Catholic Prayers are directed to the Father through the Son.

Do non-Catholics pray for each other as Jesus told us to? Yes. To they ask others to pray for them? Yes. Do they trust Jesus when he said God is the God of the living and not the dead? And do they understand when it says that those who have died in Christ are not dead but are alive? If so, there should be no problem with asking those who are alive in Christ to pray for us

We have Christian unity on this Forum Site!

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Not being Catholic, I would like to ask a question. If being Christian means that you have a personal relationship with God, what then is the purpose of having intermediaries pray for you? I don’t understand why you need a priest, saints, Mary, or anyone else to intercede for you when you can talk directly to God your self. Why not just talk to God as you would talk to your parents or your best friend? I mean, isn’t that really the point of a personal relationship with God?

Being in the Catacombs in Rome, etched in the walls are prayers for the dead. There are prayers for example for St. Paul, and others who have died. Also the bible states you can pray for the dead. We, as Catholics, already know we have a relationship with God. The word “personal” derived from Martin Luther and is nowhere to be found in the bible.
Jesus breathed on His Disciples and told them to go and preach and told them “what sin you retain will be retained, what sin you forgive will be forgiven”. That is pennance, or a “confession” to a priest. I love the priests. They give up their whole lives for God. What a sacrifice…PRIESTS ARE THE UMBILICAL CORD TO GOD.

 

[ralphinal]

I do indeed pray for those who ask.

I suppose I understand the concept, but I am not sure I understand why you chose to have others intercede when you can pray directly. I can agree with the concept that the more people you have praying for something, the better, but I cannot understand why you should use formulaic petitions to do so.

It is not an either/or. It is a both/and. We pray directly and we ask others to pray for us. Both/and

And why do you ask others to pray for you? Because we know that where two or three are gathered, Jesus is there. Because we know that the prayers of a rightous man avail much. .

Formulaic petitions are used because for many people, spontaneous prayer is difficult. Many people actually make themselves nervous when they think about praying (just like they do when asked to speak in public). There is no law in the Church to require any prayer to be used outside of those required for the various sacraments, and they are directed to God

I can see asking Mary to pray for you, but I don’t understand why you have to use a specific prayer to do so.

Again, you do not have to use any prayers in particular. We just have them available to those who need or want them.

 

[Carlan]

Hi Heartwood,
Ultimately all prayer goes to the Father through Jesus the one mediator for all of us. I can’t understand why anyone would object to asking family and friends to intercede to God for us in our most serious needs.As far as calling on the mother of God, Mary most holy, or any of the Saints in heaven for intercessory prayer, they are more alive in Jesus Christ than we are at the moment and so I would say their prayer is most certainly likely to be heard, no mistake about.:thumbsup:Carlan

 

[bookgirl32]

I do indeed pray for those who ask.

I suppose I understand the concept, but I am not sure I understand why you chose to have others intercede when you can pray directly. I can agree with the concept that the more people you have praying for something, the better, but I cannot understand why you should use formulaic petitions to do so.

I can see asking Mary to pray for you, but I don’t understand why you have to use a specific prayer to do so.

You don’t have to. But you can. That’s two different things.

 

[Joe_5859]

I do indeed pray for those who ask.

I suppose I understand the concept, but I am not sure I understand why you chose to have others intercede when you can pray directly. I can agree with the concept that the more people you have praying for something, the better, but I cannot understand why you should use formulaic petitions to do so.

I can see asking Mary to pray for you, but I don’t understand why you have to use a specific prayer to do so.

This is the best analogy I have heard in defense of formulaic prayer:

Imagine a young couple very much in love. The man wants very much to express his love for this wonderful woman. Being musically inclined, he grabs his guitar and heads to her house. Once there, he heads around to the backyard and throws a rock up at the window to catch her attention. She comes to the window and opens it wide as he starts to play the guitar and beautifully sing her favorite popular love song.

Then she screams at him, “Couldn’t you have made up the words as you went along!?”

Many people get hung up on pre-written prayers because they assume that they can only be used robotically. That is not the case at all. Rather (and this applies particularly to those prayers with such a rich and deep history), these prayers are like love songs that we use when our own words would almost get in the way. Of course we can and should pray spontaneously, just as we would have conversations with our beloved. But that doesn’t mean that formulaic prayers aren’t also a very important part of our spiritual arsenal.

 

[ralphinal]

We have Christian unity on this Forum Site!

We can have more of it if people would listen to each other more. Then again, listening can lead to learning and learning can lead to growth and growth can lead to change and change can lead you home

 

[Tantum_ergo]

I think Jesus answered this question.

When you pray, say, “Our Father. . .”

Why Our father? Why not “My Father” if it is a personal, direct, one-on-one ‘chat’ with God? Why are we to pray to God acknowledging Him as Father, not just of me, or you, but of all?

 

[Dettingen]

I can ask friends and family here on earth to pray about something.

By extension, then, friends and family who have gone before me can also be asked to chip in their two cents as well.

I think that’s the idea behind praying to saints.

Plus, there’s the confidence that, like a good Jewish son, Jesus could never tell his mother no. So getting Mary to go ask him for us should ensure an answer, yes?

 

[FCEGM]

Not being Catholic, I would like to ask a question. If being Christian means that you have a personal relationship with God, what then is the purpose of having intermediaries pray for you? I don’t understand why you need a priest, saints, Mary, or anyone else to intercede for you when you can talk directly to God your self. Why not just talk to God as you would talk to your parents or your best friend? I mean, isn’t that really the point of a personal relationship with God?

I posted this yesterday in another thread, but it seems appropriate for inclusion here as it speaks of the principle of the unity we have with all our brothers and sisters in Christ, be they in glory or yet on earth:

". . .from the first moment of his salvific activity, Jesus of Nazareth strives to gather together the People of God. Even if his preaching is also an appeal for personal conversion, in reality he continually aims to build the People of God whom he came to bring together, purify and save.

"As a result, therefore, therefore, an individualistic interpretation of Christ’s proclamation of the Kingdom, specific to liberal theology, is unilitaral and without foundation, as a great liberal theologian Adolf von Harnack sumed it up in the year 1900 in his lessons on the essence of Christianity. ‘The Kingdom of God, insofar as it comes to single individuals, is able to enter their soul and is welcomed by them. The Kingdom of God is the dominion of God, certainly, but it is the dominion of the holy God in individual hearts.’

"In reality, this individualism of liberal theology is a typically modern accentuation: in the perspective of biblical tradition and on the horizon of Judaism, where the work of Jesus is situated in all its novelty, it is clear that the entire mission of the Son-made-flesh, has a communitarian finality. He truly came to unite dispersed humanity; he truly came to unite the People of God. An evident sign of the intention of the Nazarene to gather together the community of the Covenant, to demonstrate in it the fulfillment of the promises made to the Fathers who, always speak of convocation, unification, unity, is the institution of the Twelve. . . .

". . .The number twelve, which evidently refers to the twelve tribes of Israel, already reveals the meaning of the prophetic symbolic action implicity in the new initiative to re-establish the holy people. As the system of the twelve tribes had long ago faded out, the hope of Israel awaited their restoration as a sign of the eschatalogical time (as referred to at the end of the Book of Ezakiel: 37:15-19; 39:23-29; 40-48).

". . .We cannot have Jesus without the reality he created and in which he communicates himself. Between the Son of God-made-flesh and his Church there is a profound, unbreakable mysterious continuity by which Christ is present today in his people. He is always contemporary with us; he is also contemporary with the Church, built on the foundation of the Apostles and alive in the succession of the Apostles. And his very presence in the community, in which he himself is always with us, is the reason for our joy. . . " (Pope Benedict XVI, The Apostles)

Once this can be understood, one can see more deeply into the mystery of the Communion of Saints and why it’s never just a “me and my personal relationship with God” life that a Christian is to lead - that there is a great Communion into which we are invited with and in Him.

 

[2nd_Adam]

We can have more of it if people would listen to each other more. Then again, listening can lead to learning and learning can lead to growth and growth can lead to change and change can lead you home

Where’s home brother?

 

[Carlan]

This is the best analogy I have heard in defense of formulaic prayer:

Imagine a young couple very much in love. The man wants very much to express his love for this wonderful woman. Being musically inclined, he grabs his guitar and heads to her house. Once there, he heads around to the backyard and throws a rock up at the window to catch her attention. She comes to the window and opens it wide as he starts to play the guitar and beautifully sing her favorite popular love song.

Then she screams at him, “Couldn’t you have made up the words as you went along!?”

Many people get hung up on pre-written prayers because they assume that they can only be used robotically. That is not the case at all. Rather (and this applies particularly to those prayers with such a rich and deep history), these prayers are like love songs that we use when our own words would almost get in the way. Of course we can and should pray spontaneously, just as we would have conversations with our beloved. But that doesn’t mean that formulaic prayers aren’t also a very important part of our spiritual arsenal.

Thanks for that JoeCarlan

 

[Karmartia]

Many people get hung up on pre-written prayers because they assume that they can only be used robotically. That is not the case at all. Rather (and this applies particularly to those prayers with such a rich and deep history), these prayers are like love songs that we use when our own words would almost get in the way. Of course we can and should pray spontaneously, just as we would have conversations with our beloved. But that doesn’t mean that formulaic prayers aren’t also a very important part of our spiritual arsenal.

Well said Joe. I guess alot depends on your intentions with regard to formulaic prayer.
Often overlooked are the cathartic and meditative benefits of say, praying a novena or the Divine Mercy Chaplet. Such prayer forms can be invaluable in dealing with lifes difficulties and in growing in faith. This varied and rich prayer life afforded by Catholicism is one of the main reasons I joined the Church.

 

[Carlan]

I posted this yesterday in another thread, but it seems appropriate for inclusion here as it speaks of the principle of the unity we have with all our brothers and sisters in Christ, be they in glory or yet on earth:

Once this can be understood, one can see more deeply into the mystery of the Communion of Saints and why it’s never just a “me and my personal relationship with God” life that a Christian is to lead - that there is a great Communion into which we are invited with and in Him.

Yes, FCEGM The Church the Bride of Christ, we are his body he is the Head, we His Church on earth in union with all the Saints in heaven, The Trinity.:angel1:Carlan

 

[guanophore]

Not being Catholic, I would like to ask a question. If being Christian means that you have a personal relationship with God,

it means that, but it also means much more.

what then is the purpose of having intermediaries pray for you? I don’t understand why you need a priest, saints, Mary, or anyone else to intercede for you when you can talk directly to God your self.

I don’t think “intermediaries” is the right word. Co-laborers, perhaps? Intercessors?

Jesus founded a Church, and brought all of us into relationship with one another in it, so we are members one of another. If you can come to understand why He did this, then you will have your answer.

Have you never shared a vibrant prayer session with other believers? If not, it is difficult to understand how this builds one’s faith and Spirit.

Why not just talk to God as you would talk to your parents or your best friend?  I mean, isn't that really the point of a personal relationship with God?

Because He does not have skin?

The intercession of others does not in any way prevent us from our relationship with God. Are you suggesting that praying for and with one another is not “Christian”?