Question from a non-Catholic

[ralphinal]

Where’s home brother?

Home is heaven, where we can be with God as He intended, but for now, while we walk in this vale of tears, we must settle for Heaven on Earth, as seen in Revelation.

Heaven is being in the Real Presence of Jesus. In other words, home is the Catholic Church

 

[Love_is_Patient]

Home is heaven, where we can be with God as He intended, but for now, while we walk in this vale of tears, we must settle for Heaven on Earth, as seen in Revelation.

Heaven is being in the Real Presence of Jesus. In other words, home is the Catholic Church

Amen.

Come join us, 2nd.

Love is Patient

 

[Joseph_L_Varga]

If being Christian means that you have a personal relationship with God, what then is the purpose of having intermediaries pray for you? I don’t understand why you need a priest, saints, Mary, or anyone else to intercede for you when you can talk directly to God your self.

Hi Heartwood,
I don’t know all the answers but here’s something about the priests and saints as intercessors. It is mentioned first in the story of Abraham in Genesis, that Melchizedek was a priest. Later on the priesthood goes through the whole Old Testament, they offered prayers and sacrifices for the people, there are many references to this in the OT. One thing seems certain, priesthood existed in the OT, and God the Father in the OT, as well as Jesus Christ during his earthly ministry treated it as a legitimate institution. The New Testament priesthood seems to me as an extension of the OT priesthood. I don’t know why God wanted it, but it seems to me that it is in accord with His will for us to have priests. And as the OT priests offered animal sacrifices and holocausts (burnt offerings) to God, the NT priests offer instead the Eucharist as the sacrifice, wherein the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ are truly present under the visible appearance of bread and wine. One thing is for sure, we non-priests (lay people) cannot offer the Eucharist as sacrifice to God, because we cannot consecrate (=change into the Eucharist) the bread and wine.

Another interesting story in the OT is that of Moses and the people, in Genesis. The people were so frightened by God’s presence and the majestic signs (pillar of fire, sounding of trumpets etc) of his presence, that they asked Moses to go up alone on the mountain and talk to God alone, in other words to intercede alone for the whole nation of Israel.

Yet another interesting story is that of Job, where God tells Job to pray for his friends, i.e. to intercede in prayer for his friends. See post #12 in this thread:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=391651

 

[BernadetteM]

Jesus being a good Jew, followed the traditions and customs of Judiasm. He never said that their traditions or customs were wrong. Since the Church is an extension of the Jewish faith, a New Convenant we follow some of the same traditions that our Lord did.

The Jews prayed for the dead so that they could attain heaven. They also asked that the dead (who are alive in Christ) pray for them. To this day they ask certain Holy men to pray for them.

They believed in ritual and written prayers. If all these things were wrong, surely our Lord would have taught that, He practiced the Jewish faith until His death.

Revelation speaks of what appears to be the Mass. The term used is the Lamb that was slained. Who else can that be but our Lord and Holy Savior.

I have always felt close to the Jews for this reason. I am speaking of the Orthodox Jews who still practice the faith of the time of Jesus.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

 

[heartwood010]

Hi Heartwood,
I don’t know all the answers but here’s something about the priests and saints as intercessors. It is mentioned first in the story of Abraham in Genesis, that Melchizedek was a priest. Later on the priesthood goes through the whole Old Testament, they offered prayers and sacrifices for the people, there are many references to this in the OT. One thing seems certain, priesthood existed in the OT, and God the Father in the OT, as well as Jesus Christ during his earthly ministry treated it as a legitimate institution. The New Testament priesthood seems to me as an extension of the OT priesthood. I don’t know why God wanted it, but it seems to me that it is in accord with His will for us to have priests. And as the OT priests offered animal sacrifices and holocausts (burnt offerings) to God, the NT priests offer instead the Eucharist as the sacrifice, wherein the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ are truly present under the visible appearance of bread and wine. One thing is for sure, we non-priests (lay people) cannot offer the Eucharist as sacrifice to God, because we cannot consecrate (=change into the Eucharist) the bread and wine.

Another interesting story in the OT is that of Moses and the people, in Genesis. The people were so frightened by God’s presence and the majestic signs (pillar of fire, sounding of trumpets etc) of his presence, that they asked Moses to go up alone on the mountain and talk to God alone, in other words to intercede alone for the whole nation of Israel.

Yet another interesting story is that of Job, where God tells Job to pray for his friends, i.e. to intercede in prayer for his friends. See post #12 in this thread:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=391651

It is my understanding that the Jews live by Law as handed down in the Torah (first 5 books of the Bible) and the laws prescribed by God (dietary, social, and dress codes, etc.) through his priests. The New Testament is the teachings of Christ and the fulfilling of the prophesies told in the Old Testament that spoke of a Savior. Any one born after the time of Christ is saved by Grace and not by Law.

The Apostles were not actually priests or rabbis. They were the first students of Christ and instructed by Jesus to tell his words to the world. Christs commanded them to be Missionaries. They created ordination rituals to create a hierarchical structure to better oversee the spread of the Word and to be able to control doctrine.

I am not trying to be combative here, but I don’t understand why one person is more qualified to spread the word or direct worship than another. If both have studied the teachings equally, then both should be able to perform all of the rituals defined by the church with equal effectiveness. A dedicated lay person should be the same in the eyes of God as a priest.

 

[rinnie]

Not being Catholic, I would like to ask a question. If being Christian means that you have a personal relationship with God, what then is the purpose of having intermediaries pray for you? I don’t understand why you need a priest, saints, Mary, or anyone else to intercede for you when you can talk directly to God your self. Why not just talk to God as you would talk to your parents or your best friend? I mean, isn’t that really the point of a personal relationship with God?

Probally because God didn’t make it that way.

If we should not ask, and have people pray for us why did God tell us to.

In the O.T. He told Job’s friends to have Job pray for them.

In the N.T. Jesus told Peter I have prayed for you.

Now being a Christian and a Catholic let me ask you, Why do Christians either miss, or ignore that scripture? Do Christians not pray for eachother also? Is it just Catholic’s or what?

And what does praying for others, and asking them pray for you have to do with having a personal relationship with God? I mean to me saying Dear Lord please help my son, brother, sister, etc at this time of need would make me feel closer to God, not futher away.

 

[Texan77]

Not being Catholic, I would like to ask a question. If being Christian means that you have a personal relationship with God, what then is the purpose of having intermediaries pray for you? I don’t understand why you need a priest, saints, Mary, or anyone else to intercede for you when you can talk directly to God your self. Why not just talk to God as you would talk to your parents or your best friend? I mean, isn’t that really the point of a personal relationship with God?

What makes our relationship with God - personal?

As we look back at the OT we can see that God made covenants with man - these covenants were carried out by men called by God

We also believe that God sent His Son Jesus Christ through a specific blood line - we believe He was begotten and not made…

It seems to me that God has always used His creation

So yes we ask those who are in the presence of God right now - to pray for us

I believe is makes an even more personal relationship with God

Thus how personal is our relationship with God - without His Church

His Church today is made up of both sinners and saints and it is His body

 

[choy]

Not being Catholic, I would like to ask a question. If being Christian means that you have a personal relationship with God, what then is the purpose of having intermediaries pray for you? I don’t understand why you need a priest, saints, Mary, or anyone else to intercede for you when you can talk directly to God your self. Why not just talk to God as you would talk to your parents or your best friend? I mean, isn’t that really the point of a personal relationship with God?

the same reason Jesus had 12 guys following him around as well as countless disciples

the same reason God’s commandments are basically two parts, the first is about loving Him, the second is about loving others

we are a community. there should be fellowship amongst men. that is why Jesus says He will be among at least 2 or 3, not 1. we shouldn’t be alone in our lives and our worship of God. Mary and the saints praying for us is part of these fellowship, that we are connected to our fellowmen not only here on earth, but those who also made it to heaven