Question from an athiest

[catholic-rcia]

Look into your heart, how would you as a Catholic answer the question below. It is from a Mormon who is now a non beleiver in God. He has a very large following in Utah. I think his question is sincere. How would you answer Him?

Peace in Christ

Jeff, God does not need Glory, God is Glory itself.

Rich, if God does not need glory then why are you working for God’s glory? In a previous post you said:
"This is what really gives me joy, to be working for Gods glory. "

Rich, if you’re spending your life doing things that God has no need of then it seems you’re wasting your time. Please explain.

 

[Ruben]

It is us that need God’s glory. As Jesus told the apostles on the road to Emmaus; did it not behoove the son of man to undergo his suffering and thus enter into his glory? What is the glory in the ignominious death of the cross but that of the salvation of God’s creatures, humankind itself? God’s glory is manifested to humankind in Christ’s death on the cross. The necessity of this glory is for the benefit of man. God entered into humanity in Jesus through his life, death and resurrection so that we can enter into his divinity. God’s works are glorified in us in as far as we are willing to enter into the paschal mystery of Christ. He entered into human suffering to draw us into his glory. We glorify him to the extent we are willing to enter into the mystery of his passion, death and resurrection. The cross was the means he chose for his glorification and in so choosing it became the means of ours as well.

 

[Ammonius_Saccus]

Jeff, God does not need Glory, God is Glory itself.

Why do you think God is glory? I don’t know if the New Testament says that God is glory or a Catholic teaching that says he is, but the Tanakh (Old Testament) does not. The closest it comes is to refer to God as the Glory of Israel.

In the Tanakh God has glory. God deserves glory. God created man to for his glory. God does things to gain glory. But no place is it ever said that God is glory. I am not sure that saying God is glory even has any real meaning.

Here is a listing of all the times “glory” is used in the Bible. You can see that God does want glory.
biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=glory&version1=31&searchtype=all&limit=none&wholewordsonly=no

Note when you see references to the Glory of the LORD, it is probably better to read those as the Presence of the LORD. However, it does not change the above point.

 

[Ammonius_Saccus]

Jeff, God does not need Glory, God is Glory itself.

Also, I think you are using “glory” in two way here.

God does not need Glory - glory meaning “Adoration, praise, and thanksgiving offered in worship.”

God is Glory itself - glory meaning “Majestic beauty and splendor; resplendence”

The statement does not seem to be constructed properly.

 

[Catholig]

Look into your heart, how would you as a Catholic answer the question below. It is from a Mormon who is now a non beleiver in God. He has a very large following in Utah. I think his question is sincere. How would you answer Him?

Peace in Christ

Jeff, God does not need Glory, God is Glory itself.

Rich, if God does not need glory then why are you working for God’s glory? In a previous post you said:
"This is what really gives me joy, to be working for Gods glory. "

Rich, if you’re spending your life doing things that God has no need of then it seems you’re wasting your time. Please explain.

There’s a beautiful prayer or part of a pray in the Liturgy of the Novus Ordo Missae (I’m not sure if it’s in the TLM) but it says something along the lines of “God even though you have no need of our praise our desire to praise you is your gift” or something to that effect. I also remember another part of a (possibly different prayer) that says “…Although nothing we praise you”. God doesn’t need our praise - but it is his gift. It calms us and gives us purpose (Or ideally that is what it is supposed to do).

Catholig

 

[Malcolm_McLean]

"This is what really gives me joy, to be working for Gods glory. "

Rich, if you’re spending your life doing things that God has no need of then it seems you’re wasting your time. Please explain.

He makes it untrue that there is no point to human actions.

 

[theAuthor]

Basically, God needs nothing. He did not need to create us, but He did. God does not need us to bring Him Glory, but it makes him happy if we do.

In view of eternity, serving God is the only thing which **is **worthwhile. IN view of our time on Earth, most Glory is given to God when we do kind things for others out of love. It is win/win.

 

[catholic-rcia]

Also, I think you are using “glory” in two way here.

God does not need Glory - glory meaning “Adoration, praise, and thanksgiving offered in worship.”

God is Glory itself - glory meaning “Majestic beauty and splendor; resplendence”

The statement does not seem to be constructed properly.

How would you constuct it and then answer it?

 

[Gamera]

“Need” seems to be the problem word here. No, God doesn’t NEED our worship — He’s fine without it. But God DESERVES our worship, and we give it to Him out of love.

My wife doesn’t NEED flowers. Does that mean I shouldn’t give them to her?

 

[catholic-rcia]

Why do you think God is glory? I don’t know if the New Testament says that God is glory or a Catholic teaching that says he is, but the Tanakh (Old Testament) does not. The closest it comes is to refer to God as the Glory of Israel.

In the Tanakh God has glory. God deserves glory. God created man to for his glory. God does things to gain glory. But no place is it ever said that God is glory. I am not sure that saying God is glory even has any real meaning.

It’s like saying God is Love. God does not need to be loved as He is Love itself. His love is given freely to His creation not for Him, rather for us. We do not have love or posses love at our own center. Rather we get to share in this love that only really comes from God. The one I am speaking to comes from a faith that taught Him to shine all on His own to please God. He see’s God as one who needs praise for Himself in order to exist. He see’s God as a human Father. One that would offer love to have love returned. I beleive God does not offer love as a transaction. Trying to hit the heart of this with humility fo the one asking this question. His question really opens the door for an amazing response. Trying to help God pierce this heart. Keep it coming.

God bless
Rich
www.utahmission.com

Here is a listing of all the times “glory” is used in the Bible. You can see that God does want glory.
biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=glory&version1=31&searchtype=all&limit=none&wholewordsonly=no

Note when you see references to the Glory of the LORD, it is probably better to read those as the Presence of the LORD. However, it does not change the above point.

 

[Koru]

maybe the question can be better suited if replacing the word “glory” for the word “grace”?

 

[Ammonius_Saccus]

How would you constuct it and then answer it?

The way you have it set up is like this:

A does not need X, A is X itself.

But what you are really saying is:

A does not need X1, A is X2 itself.

You are using “glory” in two different ways.

And I still don’t see why you think God is glory itself. If you look at the Bible passages, God talks about increasing his glory. This is not something that God could do if God was glory itself.

 

[valient_Lucy]

“Need” seems to be the problem word here. No, God doesn’t NEED our worship — He’s fine without it. But God DESERVES our worship, and we give it to Him out of love.

My wife doesn’t NEED flowers. Does that mean I shouldn’t give them to her?

That’s true. The question seems to imply that God is dependent upon us to give Him Glory, otherwise He doesn’t have it.

When someone says that they are working for God’s glory, they do not mean that they are working to make God glorious. Rather, they are working so that others will recognize the glory of God.

 

[theguidedheart]

Look into your heart, how would you as a Catholic answer the question below. It is from a Mormon who is now a non beleiver in God. He has a very large following in Utah. I think his question is sincere. How would you answer Him?

Peace in Christ

Jeff, God does not need Glory, God is Glory itself.

Rich, if God does not need glory then why are you working for God’s glory? In a previous post you said:
"This is what really gives me joy, to be working for Gods glory. "

Rich, if you’re spending your life doing things that God has no need of then it seems you’re wasting your time. Please explain.

When one of your children makes something for you at school and gives it to you, do you NEED it? Probably not, but what it gives you is much greater than its monitary worth, it is LOVE made actual through their efforts. Thats the greatest gift they could give - and God is all about love of course

Peace

 

[freesoulhope]

The way you have it set up is like this:

A does not need X, A is X itself.

But what you are really saying is:

A does not need X1, A is X2 itself.

You are using “glory” in two different ways.

And I still don’t see why you think God is glory itself. If you look at the Bible passages, God talks about increasing his glory. This is not something that God could do if God was glory itself.

How is it possible that God Increases in glory? It would seem correct to say that “God is glory”, just as much as we would say “God is love”, God does not “increase in Love”. An increase in Glory, suggests an “improvement” from a lesser state; But God is the “Highest”, so this seems like a contradiction in terms. Maybe he doesn’t Increase “objectively”; Intead, maybe its relitive in relation to Human beings and Human sin. Gods Glory increases in are hearts and minds, maybe? The more light we let into are hearts, the more glory we see in God; therefore It only appears that Gods Glory increases in light of are sinful nature, when in actually fact, Glory is already Gods, in the highest, in the mere fact of his Holy nature and Saving grace; and this Glory is actualised in the world when we act in God. Taking in to account that God is timeless.

What do you think?

 

[freesoulhope]

Rich, if God does not need glory then why are you working for God’s glory? In a previous post you said:
"This is what really gives me joy, to be working for Gods glory. "

Rich, if you’re spending your life doing things that God has no need of then it seems you’re wasting your time. Please explain.

Gods Glory is not just for Gods Sake. Gods Glory is an extention of Gods Love. When we work for the Glory of God, the more closer we are to Gods saving grace.The more Glory we bring into the world through Holy spirit and the body of Christ, the more people will come to know God, and all the more will be saved. Life is a Harvest, once the Glory of God has got all it can from that Harvest, the world will end.

Peace and God bless.

 

[spauline]

God created us for one ultimate purpose: to share His Love with us, that we might partake of the very life and love that exists in the Trinity. Happinesss is synomous with love. One cannot be happy and not have love. And also, one cannot have love and not have happiness. In loving so much that we even suffer for those who infinitely insult us is the greatest manifestation of God’s glory. For example, why is Star Wars so great? Because of light sabers and spaceships, or because a man started out good, became evil and was redeemed. That God is not only able to have mercy on us but also restore to us the very life and love within him into the depths of our soul is the essence of God’s glory.

“God is Love.” It says this twice in St. John’s first Catholic Epistle. I think he was trying to emphasize something here. God doesn’t need us, but He WANTS us, He wants to share infinite love with us and give us an opportunity to love even as he loves, even if only in a finite sense.

But the modern world cannot comprehend this, because it’s conception of happiness usually never goes beyond physical pleasures, possessions, and egotistical and superficial accomplishments. The modern world cares not even for natural love, let alone supernatural. So then, until the atheist desires to receive and give true intimate love, priceless love, he will never understand why one would even want God to exist.