Question: Mark 7:24-30

[ellzeena]

I’m re-reading the NT and this particular part has always worried me. I have heard it preached that Jesus did and said these things to teach his disciples that all are equal in the eyes of God. However, the late Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan used this particular scripture to make the statement that Jesus “was not a nice man”. It’s hard for me to understand how He could “insult” someone who came to Him in faith as I thought all who come before Him in faith are received with love. Can someone help me understand this? Thank you very much.

 

[JerryZ]

I’m re-reading the NT and this particular part has always worried me. I have heard it preached that Jesus did and said these things to teach his disciples that all are equal in the eyes of God. However, the late Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan used this particular scripture to make the statement that Jesus “was not a nice man”. It’s hard for me to understand how He could “insult” someone who came to Him in faith as I thought all who come before Him in faith are received with love. Can someone help me understand this? Thank you very much.

He “Jesus” is merely stating a fact, He had come to fulfill an ancient prophecy, Jesus came to save 1st the Jews they were the first born and therefore had the right of inheritance.
And yet he showed mercy to the woman.
Remember in their culture gentiles counted less than nothing in the jews eyes.
Read about St. Peter eating at the table of a gentile and the other Apostles were scandalized.
And yet after that, Christianity was preached to all remembering Jesus commandment to teach all the nations of the earth.

 

[FrancisBenedict]

Christ helped her when she showed humility.

We should always live in humility.

 

[COPLAND_3]

Jesus sometimes said and did things in what might be considered odd or in this case rude, but would ultimately be a demonstration, or to teach everyone a lesson that would have not been evident had he handled it it another way. This was a lesson for everyone that perseverance and constancy in prayer is powerful, even when sometimes we feel that God might be saying no at first.

To say that Jesus was not a nice man is to ignore everything else that He did, and to ignore that He actually did what the woman begged of Him.

 

[sennincatholic]

Christ helped her when she showed humility.

We should always live in humility.

i’ll add that not only was she humble…she was also persistent and perseverent in her request.
We should learn from her that no matter our troubles and despair in life we should never loose hope and trust in Christ Jesus.we should keep on asking(praying) until he answers(provided our request conforms with his will of course).

 

[bzkoss236]

I’m re-reading the NT and this particular part has always worried me. I have heard it preached that Jesus did and said these things to teach his disciples that all are equal in the eyes of God. However, the late Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan used this particular scripture to make the statement that Jesus “was not a nice man”. It’s hard for me to understand how He could “insult” someone who came to Him in faith as I thought all who come before Him in faith are received with love. Can someone help me understand this? Thank you very much.

What about it made the rabbi say that Jesus was not a nice man?

 

[Mike_from_NJ]

What about it made the rabbi say that Jesus was not a nice man?

From what I’ve read, the part where Jesus says, “First let the children eat all they want for it is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs,” that he’s referring to the people of Israel as his children. He’s referring to gentiles and this woman specifically as dogs. The woman has to argue that even dogs get scraps of what are fed to children and begs for a scrap of kindness, which he does offer.

 

[ellzeena]

What about it made the rabbi say that Jesus was not a nice man?

He called her a “dog”, rather equated her with them. One other responder mentioned that the Jews thought of the gentiles as little less than dogs. While this is true,Jesus was not an “ordinary” Jew! He was God incarnate! Did God perceive humanity (other than the Jews) this way? That’s frightening to me. Another responder asked why Rabbi Kaplan said he was not a “nice man”…well, I think when someone comes to you for help and you equate her with dogs and say she’s unworthy of it, that’s not very nice. BTW, Rabbi Kaplan was a great scholar. He translated the Sephir Yetzirah as well as the Torah and many obscure texts and was thought a great teacher. Not that I personally think Jesus was not a “nice man”, quite the contrary! I can see how he may have been teaching others a lesson here, or rather two lessons: the first, all are equal in God’s eyes and none should be sent away empty; the second, perseverance and humility in prayer are required. It’s still a shocking scripture and it is used by many to judge Him. Every time I read it, it worries me. (sigh)

 

[HillbillyHermit]

Here’s the footnote from the NAB-RE:
[7:27–28] The figure of a household in which children at table are fed first and then their leftover food is given to the dogs under the table is used effectively to acknowledge the prior claim of the Jews to the ministry of Jesus; however, Jesus accedes to the Gentile woman’s plea for the cure of her afflicted daughter because of her faith.

It can be found at usccb.org/bible/mark/7#49007027-1

Maybe this is one of those instances where Jesus is using hyperbole. (I hope that’s the right word I’m goin’ for.)

However, the late Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan used this particular scripture to make the statement that Jesus “was not a nice man”.

I don’t understand why Christians, Catholic or non, would look to what a rabbi has/had to say about the Lord Jesus.

As far as “not nice”:
No one has greater love than this, to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.
(John 15:13 NAB)

 

[ellzeena]

Well, because I’m a Christian and a Catholic doesn’t mean I don’t read philosophy and have interest in the religion into which the Messiah was born! I studied Judaism to learn more about God and Rabbi Kaplan was/is considered a great source of wisdom and an erudite teacher in his field (Judaism, of course). I stumbled across his comment about Jesus in one of his books and was quite shocked actually. But then it became clear to me that, if a person were serving God with everything s/he has to give (as was Rabbi Kaplan), and part of that servitude was the imposed certainty that the Messiah had not yet come, that person would have extreme ambivalence toward Jesus the Christ since there is sufficient historical evidence that He existed, that He was crucified, that He rose, and therefor is the Messiah. So, what to do in such a case? If such a person’s conscience was niggling them and it was absolutely forbidden (not to mention career destroying) to acknowledge the obvious truth, then one would have to build an enormous antipathy toward Jesus. Seems reasonable, sad, but reasonable. Rabbi Kaplan died suddenly at quite a young age (I think 46) of a huge heart attack. I often wonder how such a soul experiences the moment when it is face to Face and the truth is no longer able to be disavowed.

 

[HillbillyHermit]

That’s fine, whatever floats yer boat. I just wonder why anyone would put stock in a Rabbi taking something from the New Testament and trying to say Jesus Christ is not a nice man. That seems like asking the Amish to fix yer computer or getting guitar lessons from a drummer.

Maybe it’s a good thing I’m not one of the smart people that studies all this stuff. What little time I spend here borders on too much anyway.

 

[Mike_from_NJ]

I don’t understand why Christians, Catholic or non, would look to what a rabbi has/had to say about the Lord Jesus.

That’s fine, whatever floats yer boat. I just wonder why anyone would put stock in a Rabbi taking something from the New Testament and trying to say Jesus Christ is not a nice man.

Sometimes clarity best comes from the words of people who differ from us. I’m not saying that someone should automatically accept what the rabbi said, but at the same time you don’t just want to dismiss it out of hand just because of the topic and the source of the complaint.

 

[NHInsider]

He called her a “dog”, rather equated her with them. One other responder mentioned that the Jews thought of the gentiles as little less than dogs. While this is true,Jesus was not an “ordinary” Jew! He was God incarnate! Did God perceive humanity (other than the Jews) this way? That’s frightening to me. . . . . I can see how he may have been teaching others a lesson here, or rather two lessons: the first, all are equal in God’s eyes and none should be sent away empty; the second, perseverance and humility in prayer are required. It’s still a shocking scripture and it is used by many to judge Him. Every time I read it, it worries me. (sigh)

I used to struggle with this passage as well, but consider this - in the context, this event is third in a sequence that begins with the Pharisees criticizing Jesus for not being “jewish” enough, and getting dressed down for their willingness to obsess over scrupulous observation of the law while disregarding the needs of humans. The second episode follows, when the disciples question him and he expresses his frustration with them - when are they going to “get” that it’s what’s in a person’s heart that matters? And then we get this third incident, in which He is approached by a non-Jewish woman whose faithful hope is obvious even in human terms, never mind what he is able to discern in her heart. And he, master of the object lesson, enlists her in his effort (I sometimes imagine he caught her eye and gave her a wink or a nod, but even if he didn’t, he’s talking over her bowed figure to those standing around him) to drive home the point to his disciples - stating first the “party line” - what they EXPECT him to think/say; that the Jews are God’s children and everyone else is not and they should remain separate from the unclean . . . and then, when she responds to his “typical” remark with her clever twist, giving her faith a resounding affirmation. It’s very like his exclamation in the story of healing of the centurion’s servant - “I tell you, I’ve never found so much faith among the Israelites!” In both cases the lesson is the same - it’s faith, not bloodline, that opens the way for grace and healing.