Question: Mortal, Venial, or not really at all?

[Jaypeeto4]

Question:

Is it wrong to refer to a person who has robbed you blind,
continues to do so every chance she gets,
has no remorse, is belligerent about it,
gets worse when she is counselled by Superiors to stop it,
will not stop it, and has no remorse whatsoever,
has tried to get you fired for trying to prevent her Thefts (deliberately),
and breaks all rules and feels clearly that no rules at all apply to her
and is, definitely (because her pattern of behavior proves it 100% )
going to continue to rob you (and others) blind every chance she gets
— AND claims to be a catholic and THEREFORE knows better
than to behave like this —
as an “Evil B***CH” ?? (( not out loud to anyone else. but to yourself ??
I truly feel that this is what she is. When I try to “soften” my viewpoint of her,
and try to reconcile with her, as SOON as I demonstrate mercy to her,
she royally screws me and robs me again (( I am poor and cannot afford this
despicable and loathesome behavior )).

I truly do not feel like I am sinning at all by regarding her as such.
I feel that that is the ONLY way any SANE person can ACCURATELY regard her.

Is this considered a sin, and if so, venial or mortal ???
I don’t want her to die, or go to jail, or even be on the Unemployment line,
but I definitely want this person out of my life forever,
or at least until she gives evidence of some sort of repentance.
She is very good at FAKING being sweet to other co-workers
(( this is to make those, now over 25 people, who have reported her for thieving,
…bullying, fraudulent acts, etc, all look like Liars )),
but she is, deep down, not nice at all.
My friend Veronica, who never speaks ill of anybody, ever,
said of her, “She…is…EVIL”.
My other friend, Jill, one of the sweetest women you’d ever meet in your entire
life, bar none, says of her,
" She’s evil, Jaypeeto. I hate that heiffer. I don’t want that jive-ss heiffer comin’ NEAR me. They need to FIRE her sorry self."
Despite business suddenly plunging, she is continuing through cheating and SOMEBODY in the spirit-world BLESSING her,
to PROSPER like crazy,
and none of us, who believe in trying to behave ethically, can understand why ANYONE would be blessing this malicious person. We are certain that it cannot be GOD, so many of us have concluded that she is likely practicing Voodoo or something, because this is absolutely uncanny.
But the above part is a side issue.
What I’m asking is,
is it wrong, to regard in your heart
a person who is, in FACT, EVIL and belligerent, bullying, thieving, malicious and REMORSELESS, as an "Evil B*CH."
I don’t want to offend God, but if I pretend that I do not regard her as such,
that too would offend God, for it would be lying and false pretense.

I have never dealt with someone before, like her,
who appears from the articles I have read,
to fit the description of a “Sociopath.” That’s very severe,
I know, but I have truly, despite over 50 years of life, and
despite having been around the block many times myself,
never encountered a person as falsely-sweet, malicious and malignant at THIS.
(( By the way, I am looking for other jobs, almost impossible to find in this economy,
…because I have had to ADD new antiDepressants/antiAnxiety medications to my existing regimen due to daily exposure to this person and the horrible anxiety it causes me now just to even be in the same building with her. ))

 

[Pug]

I know you didn’t ask this, but I’ve found that what I think is influenced by how I choose to label things. I would not accept as my inner thought label the appellation “Evil B”. I would select a different term. Perhaps call her Ms. X in your head and accept that Ms. X must be avoided at all costs save your integrity or the safety of people or the like. The less personal inner thought time wasted contemplating Ms. X the better, perhaps just the minimum required to A) avoid the dangers she poses, and B) pray for her if you decide it is a good idea to do that more than once.

If you believe she has it in for you, consider dedicating a larger amount of your resources to finding a new job, if that is somehow feasible or helpful. A truly dangerous individual will stop at nothing.

 

[Jaypeeto4]

She’s hell-bent on robbing people blind and making a HUGE paycheck
no matter how wickedly she obtains it.
If she has to bully you and steal, and it is stealing, the fruit of your labor,
she will do so without hesitation and has done so, to me and to others,
over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

Why should I be the one to look for another job?? (( Though I AM Looking ))
Why would it be wrong,
or would it even*** be wrong in this case,
to ask God to have her ***Fired, considering she is
a malicious, habitual, bullying thief (among other habitual fraudulent acts she commits) ??

 

[Jaypeeto4]

Also, please understand,
that when it comes to a habitually-thieving, bullying, remorseless,
malicious person, ((hence,** in essence**, a habitual Criminal even if she is never ever charged with anything)),
person,
IF that person FURTHER CLAIMS to be a Catholic, (and she shockingly does),
I hold her to a much higher standard and regard her behavior,
since she has been taught better, as infinitely more wicked
than that of a WORLDLY, non-Christian person who did the same things.

 

[jpjd]

You need to get out of the company of this person ASAP, and until you achieve that, you need to take the necessary actions to keep her from taking advantage of you. Being a Christian does not mean being a doormat.

 

[Jaypeeto4]

examiner.com/article/sociopaths-and-bullying-the-workplace

worktrauma.org/change/bullying.htm

bullyonline.org/workbully/serial.htm#Sociopath

There are many more articles.

I think I should pray to God and ask Him to have her fired.
Normally, I would never do this, not even to someone I know that has
stolen from me, even several times, but this person is remorseless
and belligerent and is never going to stop.
She also does other things that I have been told are
seriously against the law, but then again feels that no rules apply to her.
I strive to avoid this person, and do not speak to her.
I DON’T enjoy giving a person the “silent treatment,” but once she thinks
“all is well once again,” she REALLY goes after you to steal your income
and play dirty tricks on you to get your money, etc. She is as malicious
as hell, and I can’t let her do this, and hence, avoiding her and the silent treatment.

 

[Jaypeeto4]

and thanks for your comments, jpjd.
peace,
Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+

 

[Jaypeeto4]

and thank you to you, TOO, Pug.

 

[Pug]

She’s hell-bent on robbing people blind and making a HUGE paycheck
no matter how wickedly she obtains it.
If she has to bully you and steal, and it is stealing, the fruit of your labor,
she will do so without hesitation and has done so, to me and to others,
over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

Why should I be the one to look for another job?? (( Though I AM Looking ))
Why would it be wrong,
or would it even*** be wrong in this case,
to ask God to have her ***Fired, considering she is
a malicious, habitual, bullying thief (among other habitual fraudulent acts she commits) ??

You are looking for another job simply for safety, not because somehow you are responsible for her issues. Is there a higher-up at your work protecting her job? That seems likely if she has stolen from 25 employees and not been fired.

I don’t think it would be wrong at all to pray that your work environment be restored to sanity by some suitable means. I’d let God pick the means. I’d love to see a particular set of people removed from my life, but I elect to pray that they are removed in a neutral manner, like they emigrate to France or something, if that day I can’t stop myself from wishing them gone.

some days, though, I almost succumb to letting myself long to see the earth open its maw and suck them alive down to hell along with their worldly possessions. sigh.

 

[Veronica97]

There are several issues here: 1) It sounds like this woman is doing some SERIOUSLY wrong things. I honestly think you need to bring your concerns to your boss. Tell him/her the last thing you are trying to do is make trouble, but explain what has been going on. If this person is causing trouble, it is not good for company morale. If she is stealing from the company itself, then they need to know about it. 2) As someone else said, just because you are a Catholic/Christian, does not mean you need to be taken advantage of. Stay away from her as much as you can, and do not give her any opportunities to cheat you. Do not let her sweet talk you or try to fool you. Just say firmly, “NO, I’m sorry I cannot help you.” and walk away. 3) Has your anger reached the point of hatred in your heart? I would take your dilemma to Confession and get some priestly advice on how to handle your feelings. It sounds like you have every right to be angry, but remember, this person’s soul may be in grave jeopardy. You would not wish your worst enemy to be in Hell. So instead of praying for her to be fired, I would pray for God to remove your anger from you and pray for her SOUL. Pray for God to send His own solution to the problem…not what you want but what HE wants. It doesn’t sound like anyone else is praying for her–let that person be YOU. As far as the sin being venial or mortal, I am not the best judge of these types of questions, but I think YOU know in your heart if you have carried your anger to far. Even if it is not mortal sin, it does sound like you need some priestly advice and grace/strength/love to deal with this problem.

 

[Veronica97]

I had another thought…you say there are others who have been wronged by this person…could you all go into talk to the boss together…that way it doesn’t look like you are being a trouble maker and could show your supervisor the extent of the damage being done. However, everyone should keep a level head, speak calmly, and do so in a spirit of concern, not anger.

 

[underacloud]

Jaypeeto4, I am very sorry to hear about this situation.

But do not pray to God that she be fired. As Veronica97 suggests, pray to God for His solution to the problem. Also, pray for her, as Jesus instructed as to do: “But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you” (Matthew 5:44).

Do not hold on to hate for her, as it eats at you and is unhealthy for your own soul. Avoid her by all means, and do not be a doormat. But try to keep hate out of the equation. Jesus prayed for the very men who hammered nails into his hands and feet, so as hard as it seems sometimes, we should pray also for those who harm us.

 

[Jaypeeto4]

There is a very fine line between disgust and loathing (absolutely righteous)
over a person’s habitual behavior, and loathing for the individual.
As she is so intimately connected, in her person, with her deeds of malice,
you really cannot separate HER from her habitually evil deeds,
any more than you can separate
the serial child molester from his rapes of the children.

I agree that her soul is in grave danger.
You have to “love” someone (i.e. wish them salvation),
but you do NOT have to LIKE her.

Her behavior is abhorrent.
Why do some say I should not pray that she be fired?
She is habitually Stealing from her co-workers (among other very serious things).
She is a serial, habitual offender. Stealing habitually from anyone, whether
your employer or your co-workers, makes you, at heart, in your actions,
a Willful Criminal, even if you are never arrested or charged.

If someone were robbing your homes, would you not press charges
and have them arrested?
How is this somehow not “less loving” than me praying for her to
be merely fired and NOT prosecuted for her thefts and other misdeeds???

Yes, somebody at the company is protecting her.
I can tell you why.
She,her sales figures each week, are ENORMOUS.
She is a “Super Seller.”
HOWEVER, well over half of her Gross Sales are obtained dishonestly and by cheating, that’s for certain, as well as by her stealing your sales that you’ve worked on for an hour or more via her bullying, her stealing of your even-exchanges (which is absolutelly forbidden).
I could tell you how she appears to open between 20 to 30 credit card applications a week (making her look like a STAR !! Employee ), but your eyes would bug out:
hint, half the applications are falsified, by her, on purpose, KNOWING that the computer at the C.C. company will REJECT the application but still give her 1 point on her weekly score for the falsifified application, plus a few dollars each time in Store Money. Then, she calls the C.C. company right back, for the same customer, with the CORRECT infomration this time, the application is now APPROVED, and she gets ANOTHER point and ANOTHER few dollars in Store Money. This is outrageous cheating and I believe possibly grossly illegal (submitting a faked application for ANY reason is, I have heard,
illegal, even if you are counting on that application being initially rejected).
Everything this woman does is dishonest to the core, constantly, and not “little white lies” but out and out bullying and stealing.

If it is not wrong for a home owner to have a repeat BURGLAR of his home caught and prosecuted (which I don’t want to happen to her), why is it wrong for ME to pray that this woman be Fired so that they rest of us can do our jobs in peace ???

Just curious about that.

As for praying for her, I can say a Hail Mary, and mention her as one of the intentions for my Rosary and Divine Mercy chaplet, but beyond that I sincerely cannot go.
I have had Masses offered for her and Have enrolled her in the Seraphic Mass Association (Father Solanus Casey’s favorite prayer association) and the Eucharistic Mass Society at the St. Ann’s Shrine in Cincinnati (or is it Cleveland???).
Let me tell you something, despite hundreds of holy men remembering her in prayer and mass every day, this woman is only getting worse.
We really need relief. I am appalled that she is still there. People are fired regularly for being late too many times (( irresponsible, but NOT immoral or illegal )), while this thieving bully and seeming Sociopath is STILL THERE despite their KNOWING, full well, what she has been doing for 2 years now. She has been reported so very many times, that I have finally, reluctantly concluded that this company, a huge sort of high-end nationwide department store chain, CONDONES the evil things that she is doing in order to make their money and make themselves look good.
Of course, if she ever DID get caught submitting fake apps and got prosecuted for it,
many people have documentation that they REPORTED this to the higher ups, and the higher ups elected to deliberately ignore it and deliberately allow her to continue to do these things, which could get all of THEM in big trouble too.
I don’t know who is worse: Her, for the habitual wicked activity,
or THEM, for deliberately enabling her and deliberately allowing her to get away with it,
for two years now. I really, truly, do believe that thier knowing ENABLING of this malicious woman’s behavior
IS eventually going to come back and bite all of them on their Derrieres, BADLY.

 

[Robertanthony]

You are looking for another job simply for safety, not because somehow you are responsible for her issues. Is there a higher-up at your work protecting her job? That seems likely if she has stolen from 25 employees and not been fired.

I don’t think it would be wrong at all to pray that your work environment be restored to sanity by some suitable means. I’d let God pick the means. I’d love to see a particular set of people removed from my life, but I elect to pray that they are removed in a neutral manner, like they emigrate to France or something, if that day I can’t stop myself from wishing them gone.

some days, though, I almost succumb to letting myself long to see the earth open its maw and suck them alive down to hell along with their worldly possessions. sigh.

This.

Jaypeeto4, I am very sorry to hear about this situation.

But do not pray to God that she be fired. As Veronica97 suggests, pray to God for His solution to the problem. Also, pray for her, as Jesus instructed as to do: “But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you” (Matthew 5:44).

**Do not hold on to hate for her, as it eats at you and is unhealthy for your own soul. Avoid her by all means, and do not be a doormat. But try to keep hate out of the equation. ** Jesus prayed for the very men who hammered nails into his hands and feet, so as hard as it seems sometimes, we should pray also for those who harm us

And this.

Somebody is covering her rear end, either because he (assuming it’s a guy) doesn’t spend an inordinate amount of time thinking about ethics or there is something going on between the boss and the young woman. I think you’ve alluded to the former in a previous thread but it doesn’t rule out option B. Whatever the case might be, it seems pretty obvious she is protected. Jaypee2, remember financial blessings aren’t necessarily a sign of God’s favour (Mick Jagger would be a potent example of this), so don’t totrture yourself thinking God is showering her with material blessings. God will NEVER cooperate with someone trying to get ahead through fraud, deception, evil etc. Be still and know that he is your God.

 

[Veronica97]

It doesn’t sound like she is going to be fired from this company even if you did pray for it! The best thing that could happen to her in my opinion is that she be arrested and put in jail. At least in jail, she might begin to have some sort of remorse or chance to be rehabbed. But I wouldn’t pray for that either…I’d be praying that God would help me find a way to get OUT of that company!! This is a VERY unhealthy environment for you to be working in!!! I would start looking for another job…what a horribly dishonest company this is! I know it’s rough out there trying to find a job right now…but even working at McDonald’s and living at home for awhile would be better than what this madhouse sounds like!

 

[Jaypeeto4]

**Jesus prayed for the very men who hammered nails into his hands and feet, so as hard as it seems sometimes, we should pray also for those who harm us. **

Hi underacloud,
thanks for the comments.

A few observations.
Do Jesus’s words really apply here?

He was exonerating the high priests of SUBJECTIVE guilt in turning him over to the Romans (yes, they turned him over on purpose, but they were SADDUCCEES, who did not accept the Prophetic Writings, and therefore for tha reason rejected all of Daniel’s prophecies about the “weeks of years” from the going forth of the command from Cyrus/Darius to rebuild the Temple, to the coming of Moschiach (69 weeks of years), and thus did NOT recognize him, PLUS they regarded him as a threat who was going to cause the Romans,who had appointed them to their High Priesthoods, to crush Jerusalem and the Temple. They were dead-mistaken and ignorant, and
Jesus stated, FATHER, Forgive them, for they DO NOT KNOW what they are doing!!.

I can’t truthfully say that about this woman.
She DOES know that she is robbing people blind, committing fraudulent act after fraudulent act, and bullying innocent hardworking people for her own grossly dishonest gain, HABITUALLY. Friend, she DOES know what she is Doing.

I don’t “hate” her so much as I am thoroughly disgusted by her behavior, sick and tired of having to see her, because I KNOW that as soon as she gets the chance, she is going to start the same BS every single day, every chance she gets. I truly cannot STAND to be in her presence. I know she is going to PULL something, and it makes me nauseous, as does seeing her, in her unrepented, unremorseful wickedness, PROSPERING LIKE MAD, and being blessed by someone ((whom I do NOT believe is God !!!) while persisting in gross wickedness. It makes me very, very angry, so I strive to stay clear across the Department from her. I’ve told people, when the wonder out loud why she is being blessed when she is such a dishonest, bullying thief,
“Well, Satan the Devil takes care of His Own, until he is ready to
…pull the Rug out from under their feet when they least expect it…”

That’s the only explanation that makes any sense to me.

Thanks guys. Love to all of you. I know I’m not in mortal sin.
Jesus did not say “He who is angry at his brother” is guilty of sin, but, comparing it to the other gospels, made it clear that it is “He who is angry at his brother without ((just)) cause shall be in danger of the judgement.” There are lots of people who are unjustly angry with their brothers. If Jesus was condemning all anger, then there would be no such thing as Righteous Indignation, and that’s crazy.

 

[Jaypeeto4]

veronica, hi friend, you’ve made some astute observations !!!

The organization is very well known and very well respected.

I’ll NOT under any circustances name any names, even if asked,

but I will say that you have certainly heard of them and probably

enjoy their um,

really big parade every year.

 

[Veronica97]

I really wish you hadn’t given me that clue!! I now feel like I may have mortally sinned by participating in the sin of detraction! I could tell when I started reading your response that you were going to give me a clue, and yet I read on anyway! Now I’m pretty sure I know the name of the company although I will not mention this to anyone.

 

[underacloud]

Do Jesus’s words really apply here?

He was exonerating the high priests of SUBJECTIVE guilt in turning him over to the Romans (yes, they turned him over on purpose, but they were SADDUCCEES, who did not accept the Prophetic Writings, and therefore for tha reason rejected all of Daniel’s prophecies about the “weeks of years” from the going forth of the command from Cyrus/Darius to rebuild the Temple, to the coming of Moschiach (69 weeks of years), and thus did NOT recognize him, PLUS they regarded him as a threat who was going to cause the Romans,who had appointed them to their High Priesthoods, to crush Jerusalem and the Temple. They were dead-mistaken and ignorant, and
Jesus stated, FATHER, Forgive them, for they DO NOT KNOW what they are doing!!.

I’d be more interested in Jesus’ words: “Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you”.

As for “father forgive them…” this is understood to refer to the Roman soldiers, but that’s an aside. Regardless of whether she knows what she is doing, you are called to love and pray for her.

I’ve told people, when the wonder out loud why she is being blessed when she is such a dishonest, bullying thief,
“Well, Satan the Devil takes care of His Own, until he is ready to
…pull the Rug out from under their feet when they least expect it…”

That’s the only explanation that makes any sense to me.

I’m glad that you don’t hate her. But to say that she is being blessed by Satan and is one of his own is going too far. You really shouldn’t say this to others. And you should not try to think this way either. Pray for her. She is a child of God.

You don’t pray for her to be fired because you do not know that this is God’s will. Pray for God’s will and for His solution to the problem. Pray for your own interests and for hers, and that you will be open to allowing God’s plan in all of this. And in the meantime, also try to find another job!

 

[Jaypeeto4]

I say blessed by Satan,
because there is no way that God would pour out such abundant blessings
on someone who is a habitual bullying thief who has no remorse and is proud about
her evil behavior.

For God to pour out blessings on that, He might as well have poured out blessing
after blessing on Al Capone, for she is not one whit less dishonest and thieving.

I do pray for her,
but how do we know anything is “God’s will?”
How do we know it is God’s Will if we have the men who robbed our house - repeatedly,
arrested and prosecuted? If I can’t know that about her evils, a burlgary victim can’t know it either.
And by the way, I want to re-iterate, that in terms of cold hard reality,
what she is doing to me and others, is not one whit different from,
nor one Iota less serious than, someone repeatedly burglarizing your house
and repeatedly cleaning you out, of your hard-earned possessions.
Thievery is thievery. Period.

I agree with you that I have to pray for her, and I do, but people who are asking me to love her are doing no different than asking a woman who has been repeatedly raped/violated to love and wish blessings on her Boldly-Unrepentant Rapist.
That’s understandable, cuz y’all are looking at it from a distance, and I am looking from it up close from painful personal experience.

Veronica97, you have committed no sin at all, and neither have I. Detraction is not committed against very guilty and unrepentantly unethical people who are making gobs of money by their unethical and unrighteous activity. Such people often not only promote and enable stealing and wicked behavior, but they also tend to use their profits to promote the entire Godless agenda, which really bothers me, but there are no companies, major companies, nowadays, that are NOT doing that. Look at it this way, if a company were making tons of money by using people as slave labor (( a Sin that Cries to Heaven for Vengeance )), you would be guilty of NOT ONE IOTA of the Sin of Detraction for exposing that fact. I have not gone nearly as far as I have the RIGHT, before God, to go in this matter.

I will continue to enroll this woman in prayer-leagues, hopefully they will someday have some effect, but exposing willful wickedness and KNOWING wickedness, is NOT the Sin of Detraction. It is HIDING IT and allowing it to get WORSE AND WORSE, that is really the Sin.