Question on ancestral sin

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If I understand correctly, death, the death that Adam’s sin ushered into the world, is the primary cause of subsequent human sin according to Eastern theology. I believe that sin is the cause of our death, but how does death become the cause of our sin?
 
This is one of the primary fallacies of catholicism. How are we guilty for the sins of our ancestors?
 
We are not guilty for the sins of our ancestors, and contrary to what Sent of God said, the Catholic Church does not teach that. Rather, because of Adam and Eve’s sin, we are born into a state of separation from God (Original Sin), and we also suffer the consequences of Adam and Eve’s fall, namely, concupiscence, sickness and death. In the West, the separation from God is referred to as a “stain” on the soul, while in the East it is generally referred to as a privation of divine grace and life. Both East and West phrase and emphasize Original/Ancestral Sin differently, but they both teach the same truth.

I wouldn’t say that death on it’s own is the cause of our sin, and I don’t think the Easterns would say that either (though I’m not Eastern and can’t fully speak for them on this matter). Rather, the lack of grace we are born with is the cause of our fallen bodies and minds, which results both in death and concupiscence. Death and our inclination to sin are both from the same wellspring, namely our separation from God (Original Sin).

EDIT: To phrase it simply, as I understand it, sin is the “cause” of our death (namely, Adam and Eve’s sin, not our own), in that death is the consequence for this sin that we all have inherited, and death (or more generally, our fallen bodies) is the “cause” of our own personal sin, in that our fallen bodies and minds incline us to evil. Gosh, it’s confusing 😛
 
We are not guilty for the sins of our ancestors, and contrary to what Sent of God said, the Catholic Church does not teach that. Rather, because of Adam and Eve’s sin, we are born into a state of separation from God (Original Sin), and we also suffer the consequences of Adam and Eve’s fall, namely, concupiscence, sickness and death. In the West, the separation from God is referred to as a “stain” on the soul, while in the East it is generally referred to as a privation of divine grace and life. Both East and West phrase and emphasize Original/Ancestral Sin differently, but they both teach the same truth.

I wouldn’t say that death on it’s own is the cause of our sin, and I don’t think the Easterns would say that either (though I’m not Eastern and can’t fully speak for them on this matter). Rather, the lack of grace we are born with is the cause of our fallen bodies and minds, which results both in death and concupiscence. Death and our inclination to sin are both from the same wellspring, namely our separation from God (Original Sin).
Many commentators, EO as well as others, claim Augustine read Rom 5:12 wrong due to a faulty translation which resulted in his believing in a collective inherited guilt for OS. They generally maintain that death (spiritual death?) causes our sin rather than an inherited fallen nature, if I have it right. However, spiritual death (death of the soul) is another Catholic way to describe OS. I’m a bit confused on all this.
 
IMHO, ‘original sin’ refers to our ‘inherited’ fallibility/flaw and awareness/ah-ha of that which is morally right and wrong, and our potential/actual ability to knowingly choose that which is morally wrong.
 
Ok, this quote from Rev Antony Hughes, St. Mary Antiochian Orthodox Church, Cambridge, Massachusetts, contains an assertion commonly enough heard from the Eastern side but it’s a bit enigmatic to me:

“The Eastern Church, unlike its Western counterpart, never speaks of guilt being passed from Adam and Eve to their progeny, as did Augustine. Instead, it is posited that each person bears the guilt of his or her own sin. The question becomes, “What then is the inheritance of humanity from Adam and Eve if it is not guilt?” The Orthodox Fathers answer as one: death.”

Any help on understanding this?
 
A Byzantine Catholic perspective on what Western theologians term Original Sin:

The consequences of Adam’s fall (aka Original Sin) is physical and spiritual death. When a man dies, his soul is separated from his body (physical death) and his soul is placed in hades (spiritual death).

Christ’s soul was separated from his body and his soul went into hades. He being Life itself abolished the power of hades. He brought the righteous who were held captive in hades into heaven. The unrighteousness remain in hades until the final judgement.

Today, we are still born with the consequences of Adam’s sin. However, at baptism we are born again and, when we physically die while in Christ’s grace, our soul will go to heaven (I am not going into the purification process in this post). There is no spiritual death because we were born again in baptism and practiced repentance for our sins while on earth.

Since Christ destroyed the power of death and hades by his death and resurrection, we will be resurrected at the last day and live in the New Jerusalem with Christ forever.

St John Chrysostom says:
[Romans 5] Ver. 18. “Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of One the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.”
And he insists again upon it, saying,
Ver. 19. “For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of One shall many be made righteous.
What he says seems indeed to involve no small question: but if any one attends to it diligently, this too will admit of an easy solution. What then is the question? It is the saying that through the offence of one many were made sinners. For the fact that when he had sinned and become mortal, those who were of him should be so also, is nothing unlikely. But how would it follow that from his disobedience another would become a sinner? For at this rate a man of this sort will not even deserve punishment, if, that is, it was not from his own self that he became a sinner. What then does the word “sinners” mean here? To me it seems to mean liable to punishment and condemned to death. Now that by Adam’s death we all became mortals, he had shown clearly and at large.

Source: ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf111.vii.xii.html
 
OK, by Adam’s sin we all became sinners and mortals-and the two are related. But, then, does becoming mortal *cause *us to sin?
 
We are not guilty for the sins of our ancestors, and contrary to what Sent of God said, the Catholic Church does not teach that.
CCC 402 says:
All men are implicated in Adam’s sin, as St. Paul affirms: “By one man’s disobedience many (that is, all men) were made sinners”: “sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned.” The Apostle contrasts the universality of sin and death with the universality of salvation in Christ. “Then as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one man’s act of righteousness leads to acquittal and life for all men.”
So, yeah, I’m pretty sure the church teaches that.
 
No, it does not. We choose to sin.
Ok. Do we have an idea why death was inherited even though Adam’s descendants didn’t commit the sin? Do we have an idea why all sin? EO commentators speak of loss of energies, damage to the image of God in us, corruption, loss of communion with God resulting from Adam’s sin. How does that all come into play? Are we speaking of both spiritual and physical death?
 
CCC 402 says:
All men are implicated in Adam’s sin, as St. Paul affirms: “By one man’s disobedience many (that is, all men) were made sinners”: “sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned.” The Apostle contrasts the universality of sin and death with the universality of salvation in Christ. “Then as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one man’s act of righteousness leads to acquittal and life for all men.”
So, yeah, I’m pretty sure the church teaches that.
The CC teaches that we’re not guilty for the sin of our ancestors; we inherit the guilt, itself, meaning the consequence of loss of sanctifying grace , original holiness/justice, innocence, etc. This “guilt” is a state, not an act.
 
Ok. Do we have an idea why death was inherited even though Adam’s descendants didn’t commit the sin? Do we have an idea why all sin? EO commentators speak of loss of energies, damage to the image of God in us, corruption, loss of communion with God resulting from Adam’s sin. How does that all come into play? Are we speaking of both spiritual and physical death?
Our sins affect others. We share human nature. Adam’s sin harmed our nature and caused physical and spiritual death to be inherit in human nature. Christ restored human nature by uniting the divine nature (which is life) to human nature and destroyed the power of death and hades/hell. 🙂

In the Byzantine East, grace is the uncreated Energies of God (there are no created graces in our theology).

The East teaches consequences of the Fall is the separation of soul and body with the soul being placed in hades. The West teaches that those in a state of Original Sin lack sanctifying grace.

Christ was fully man. He voluntarily submitted to having his soul separated from his body and his soul sent to hades since that is what happens to man and he was (and is) a man. Christ was made like us in all things except for sin.

Here is the Byzantine view presented by Protopresbyter Michael Pomazansky in his book, Orthodox Dogmatic Theology:
According to the Roman teaching, the burden of the sin of our first ancestors consists in the removal from mankind of a supernatural gift of grace. But here there arose a theological question: if mankind had been deprived of the gifts of grace, then how is one to understand the words of the Archangel addressed to Mary: “Rejoice, thou that art full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art thou among women . . . Thou hast found grace with God?” One could only conclude that the Most Holy Virgin Mary had been removed from the general law of the “deprivation of grace” and of the guilt of the sin of Adam. And since her life was holy from her birth, consequently she received, in the form of an exception, a supernatural gift, a grace of sanctity, even before her birth, that is, at her conception. Such a deduction was made by the Latin theologians. They called this removal a “privilege” of the Mother of God One must note that the acknowledgement of this dogma was preceded in the West by a long period of theological dispute, which lasted from the 12th century, when this teaching appeared, until the 17th century, when it was spread by Jesuits in the Roman Catholic world.

…]

On the one hand, we see that God did not deprive mankind, even after its fall, of His grace-giving gifts, as for example, the words of the 50th Psalm indicate: “Take not Thy Holy Spirit from me… With Thy governing Spirit establish me;” or the words of Psalm 70: “On Thee have I been made fast from the womb; from my mother’s womb Thou art my protector.”

On the other hand, in accordance with the teaching of Sacred Scripture, in Adam all mankind tasted the forbidden fruit. Only the God-man Christ begins with Himself the new mankind, freed by Him from the sin of Adam. Therefore, He is called the “Firstborn among many brethren” (Rom. 8:29), that is: the First in the new human race; He is the “new Adam.” The Most Holy Virgin was born as subject to the sin of Adam together with all mankind, and with him she shared the need for redemption (the Epistle of the Eastern Patriarchs, Par. 6). The pure and immaculate life of the Virgin Mary up to the Annunciation by the Archangel, her freedom from personal sins, was the fruit of the union of her spiritual labor upon herself and the abundance of grace that was poured out upon her. “Thou hast found grace with God,” the Archangel said to her in his greeting: “thou hast found,” that is, attained, acquired, earned. The Most Holy Virgin Mary was prepared by the best part of mankind as a worthy vessel for the descent of God theWord to earth The coming down of the Holy Spirit (“the Holy Spirit shall come upon thee”) totally sanctified the womb of the Virgin Mary for the reception of God the Word.
Read more: intratext.com/IXT/ENG0824/__P1N.HTM

St Cyril speaking on the consequences of the Fall and of Christ’s Incarnation:
Therefore we say that, since from the transgression of Adam human nature suffered corruption and since our intellect within us is tyrannized by the pleasures of the flesh or by the inborn motions of the flesh, it became necessary for the salvation of us who are upon the earth that the Word of God be made man in order that he might make his own the flesh of man although it was subject to corruption and sick with the love of pleasure. Since he is life and life-giver, he would destroy the corruption in the flesh and rebuke its inborn motions, plainly those which tend toward love of pleasure. For thus it was possible that the sin in our flesh be killed.

We recalled also that the blessed Paul called this inborn motion in us the “law of sin.” Wherefore since human flesh became the Word’s own, the subjection to corruption has come to an end, and since as God, he who made it his own and proclaimed it as his own “did not know sin,” as I said, he also put an end to the sickness of loving pleasure. And the only begotten Word of God has not corrected this for himself, for he is what he always is, but obviously for us. For even if we have been subject to evil from the transgression of Adam, by all means there will come upon us also the good things of Christ, which are immortality and the death of sin.
  • St Cyril of Alexandria, Letter 45:9
 
Do Greeks believe bodily death is a result of Adam’s sin? Because I can’t speak for the rest of the Orient but that’s certainly not what I was taught from teachers based on the words of St. Ephrem.
 
The Byzantines teach that the separation of the soul from the body (physical death) and the soul’s being placed in hades (spiritual death) are the consequences of the Fall. 🙂
 
No, it does not. We choose to sin.
Thank you for your answers-very helpful. But the following from Father Michael Azkoul, St. Catherine Mission, St. Louis, MO, concerns the question I’m asking about:

"Following the Holy Fathers, the Orthodox Church holds that when Adam sinned against God, he introduced death to the world. Since all men are born of the same human stock as Adam, all men inherit death. Death means that the life of every human being comes to an end (mortality); but also that death generates in us the passions (anger, hate, lust, greed, etc.), disease and aging."

So, if this teaching is one you’re familiar with, how does ‘death generate in us the passions?’
 
concerns the question I’m asking about:

"Following the Holy Fathers, the Orthodox Church holds that when Adam sinned against God, he introduced death to the world. Since all men are born of the same human stock as Adam, all men inherit death. Death means that the life of every human being comes to an end (mortality); but also that death generates in us the passions (anger, hate, lust, greed, etc.), disease and aging."

So, if this teaching is one you’re familiar with, how does ‘death generate in us the passions?’
Hi fhansen your question caused reflection on what I was recently reading…

Augustine City of God page-380

Chapter 13

As soon as our first parents had transgressed the commandment divive grace forsook them, and they were confronted with their own wickedness, thus they took fig leaves which was possibly the first that came to hand in their troubled state of mind, and they covered their shame, for though their members remained the same they had shame now and they had none before. They experienced a new motion of the flesh, which had become disobedient to them, in strict retribution of their own disobedience to God. For the soul reveling in its own liberty, and scorning to serve God, was self deprived of the command it had formally maintained over the body. And because it willfully had deserted its superior Lord, it no longer held its own inferior servant, neither could its hold the flesh subject as it would always had been able to do had it remained subject to God. Then the flesh began to lust against the spirit in which strife we are born, deriving from the first transgression a seed of death and bearing in our members, and in our vitiated nature, the contest, or the victory over death.

Chapter 14

For God the author of nature, not vice, created man upright, being of his own will corrupted and justly condemned, begot condemned and corrupted children. For we all were in that one man, who fell into sin by the women who was made from him before the sin. For not yet was the particular form created and distributed to us, in which we as individuals were to live, but already the seminal nature was therefrom which we were to be propagated; and this being vitiated by sin, and bound by the chains of death, and justly condemned, man could not be born of man in any other state. And thus from the bad use of free will, there originated the whole train of evil, with its concatenation of miseries, convoys the human race from its deprived origin, as from a corrupt root. on to the destruction of the second death, which has no end, and those only being accepted are freed by the grace of God.

Though its from the West/Augustine which you may be familiar with.
 
Thank you for your answers-very helpful. But the following from Father Michael Azkoul, St. Catherine Mission, St. Louis, MO, concerns the question I’m asking about:

"Following the Holy Fathers, the Orthodox Church holds that when Adam sinned against God, he introduced death to the world. Since all men are born of the same human stock as Adam, all men inherit death. Death means that the life of every human being comes to an end (mortality); but also that death generates in us the passions (anger, hate, lust, greed, etc.), disease and aging."

So, if this teaching is one you’re familiar with, how does ‘death generate in us the passions?’
We have to fight the passions do to the Fall. However, we choose to give into temptation or not. The Fall does not “make” us sin. We do that ourselves. 🙂
 
Amen, and also because souls place too much emphasis on the world, and romancing a finite state and gloomy thinking in relation to physical death, being then paralyzed by the flesh, thus loosing focus on divinization and through vice.
 
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