Question on bible origins

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merrill249

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Just some questions about the origins of the Bible:

When, where, and by whom were the books selected?

Why the differences b/w protestant & Catholic?

Thanks–
 
MarcoPolo said:
I can recommend no better source on the matter at this time than Gary Michuta’s book, “Why Catholic Bibles Are Bigger”. This isn’t the only source you can find this info., but probably has the most collected in one book.

The answer to your question is that the books were considered Divine, and Protestants ultimately removed them starting with the 18th century Bible Societies.

If you don’t want to read the whole book (although I recommend you do!) you can listen to free interviews with the author here:

Gary Michuta on Catholic Answers Live MP3
Gary Michuta on Kresta in the Afternoon radio MP3
Click to expand...
 
Pope Damasus decided what books were to be in the Bible in the late 4th century, before that there was absolutely no fixed canon.

Martin Luther moved 12 books and part of another to a special apocrypha section but took nothing from the Bible’s he made. The Anglican and Calvinist Churches settled for the Protestant canon with the rest of the Bible in an appendix and the Lutherans eventually followed suit. No Bible with just the 66 protestant books was ever printed til 1820 and then to save on pages and at the influence of the International Bible Society
 
to say there was no fixed cannon is not exactly true. there was a Hebrew scripture which was fixed. this is what Christ himself quoted from and the Hebrew scripture NEVER included and of the extra books. note that the Hebrew scripture contained the very same books as the protestant bible.
 
also how did Pope Damasus make uninspired writings become divine ??
 
merrill249 said:
to say there was no fixed cannon is not exactly true. there was a Hebrew scripture which was fixed. this is what Christ himself quoted from and the Hebrew scripture NEVER included and of the extra books. note that the Hebrew scripture contained the very same books as the protestant bible.
Click to expand...
Different sects of Judaism had different canons. It wasn’t fixed until some 60 years after Christ died and ascended. Some Jews only accepted the Pentateuch as inspired Scripture, others accepted the Pentateuch plus the Major Prophets. In Jesus’ time, Greek was the lingua franca (as evidenced by the NT being penned in Greek) and so the Septuagint, which is a Greek translation, was used in the synagogues. The Septuagint is the same as the Catholic OT.
 
PixieDust is absolutely correct we can go to the web pages that I,or any that other people suggested.If you don’t trust them,you can go to your local library and research the historical "facts"yourself.If your interested,the NT.does quote from some of the missing books from the Protestant Bible.A few examples are Sirach 28:2 Forgive your neighbor’s injustice;then when you pray,your own sins will be forgiven.Compare this to Mt.6:14.There are others you can easily find. But there is also a direct prophecy concerning the Passion of our Lord in Wisdom 2:12-20 as is recorded in Mt.27:41-44.Ask yourself why Christians for 1800 yrs.accepted these books as inspired,then less than 200 yrs ago they decided they were not.Why is the abomination of desolation, That Jesus referred to ,also recorded in the Maccabees can be denied as inspired is beyond me.We should not study Holy Scripture to prove “ourselves right”,but rather to know the TRUTH.Peace.
 
merrill249 said:
to say there was no fixed cannon is not exactly true. there was a Hebrew scripture which was fixed. this is what Christ himself quoted from and the Hebrew scripture NEVER included and of the extra books. note that the Hebrew scripture contained the very same books as the protestant bible.
Click to expand...
Just what I figured from your OP…trying to bait us into the usual tired arguments…if you are honestly interested in the truth of the history of Scripture, read one or more of the books listed or search out the miriad of threads on the subject on this site.
If you just want to argue with no real basis for your OPINION, then go elsewhere.
 
wardrandolph said:
PixieDust is absolutely correct we can go to the web pages that I,or any that other people suggested.If you don’t trust them,you can go to your local library and research the historical "facts"yourself.If your interested,the NT.does quote from some of the missing books from the Protestant Bible.A few examples are Sirach 28:2 Forgive your neighbor’s injustice;then when you pray,your own sins will be forgiven.Compare this to Mt.6:14.There are others you can easily find. But there is also a direct prophecy concerning the Passion of our Lord in Wisdom 2:12-20 as is recorded in Mt.27:41-44.Ask yourself why Christians for 1800 yrs.accepted these books as inspired,then less than 200 yrs ago they decided they were not.Why is the abomination of desolation, That Jesus referred to ,also recorded in the Maccabees can be denied as inspired is beyond me.We should not study Holy Scripture to prove “ourselves right”,but rather to know the TRUTH.Peace.
Click to expand...
Also Tobit 4 is the basis of many of Jesus’s teachings. Jesus just improves them as Tobit says to help the righteous needy, Jesus says to help all the needy
 
merrill249 said:
Just some questions about the origins of the Bible:
Click to expand...
When, where, and by whom were the books selected?

Why the differences b/w protestant & Catholic?

Thanks–

Actually, the Holy Scripture of the New and everlasting Covenant was declared inerrant by and as a result of the Decree of Pope St. Damasus 1 at the Council of Rome in 382 A.D.

The Decree of Pope St. Damasus I, Council of Rome. 382 A.D…

ST. DAMASUS 1, POPE, THE DECREE OF DAMASUS:

***It is likewise decreed: Now, indeed, we must treat of the divine Scriptures: what the universal Catholic Church accepts and what she must shun. ***
***The list of the ******Scriptures of the New and Eternal Testament, which the holy and Catholic Church receives: of the Gospels, one book according to Matthew, one book according to Mark, one book according to Luke, one book according to John. The Epistles of the Apostle Paul, fourteen in number: one to the Romans, two to the Corinthians, one to the Ephesians, two to the Thessalonians, one to the Galatians, one to the Philippians, one to the Colossians, two to Timothy, one to Titus one to Philemon, one to the Hebrews. Likewise, one book of the Apocalypse of John. And the Acts of the Apostles, one book. Likewise, the canonical Epistles, seven in number: of the Apostle Peter, two Epistles; of the Apostle James, one Epistle; of the Apostle John, one Epistle; of the other John, a Presbyter, two Epistles; of the Apostle Jude the Zealot, one Epistle. Thus concludes the canon of the New Testament. ***
Likewise it is decreed: After the announcement of all of these prophetic and evangelic or as well as apostolic writings which we have listed above as Scriptures, on which, by the grace of God, the Catholic Church is founded, we have considered that it ought to be announced that although all the Catholic Churches spread abroad through the world comprise but one bridal chamber of Christ, nevertheless, the holy Roman Church has been placed at the forefront not by the conciliar decisions of other Churches, but has received the primacy by the evangelic voice of our Lord and Savior, who says: "You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it; and I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you shall have bound on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you shall have loosed on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

The Council of Hippo in 393 reaffirmed the canon put forth by Pope Damasus I…

AD 393:
***Council of Hippo. “It has been decided that besides the canonical Scriptures nothing be read in church under the name of divine Scripture ***
***.” ***
(canon 36 A.D. 393).

The Third Council of Carthage reaffirmed anew, the Canon put forth by Pope Damasus I…

***AD 397: ***
***Council of Carthage III. “It has been decided that nothing except the canonical Scriptures should be read in the Church under the name of the divine Scriptures. ******” ***
(canon 47 A.D. 397).

Why the differences b/w protestant & Catholic?

The list of the books of the Old Testament where identical until the 19th century. Some of the reformers began to question the OT canon, but they did not mess with it until the 19th century?

Now I have a question for you, by what authority did the Protestants change the bible 1900 years after it was passed on through the Apostles? Did some guys at that time know more than the Apostles who were comissioned and given Authority directly by Jesus? Just doesn’t seem right to me. That is one of the major reasons why I left Protestantism, there is really no justification for this.
 
merrill249 said:
to say there was no fixed cannon is not exactly true. there was a Hebrew scripture which was fixed. this is what Christ himself quoted from and the Hebrew scripture NEVER included and of the extra books. note that the Hebrew scripture contained the very same books as the protestant bible.
Click to expand...
Yeah…and do you know when the Hebrew Scriptures were officially fixed? A.D. 90, nearly 60 years after the death and resurrection of Jesus. I find it very interesting and odd that Protestant Bibles follow the Jewish canon decreed by that Jewish council.

Here’s a question for you then: If the Hebrew Scripture was fixed during Jesus’ time, then why was the Council of Jamnia even held in A.D. 90?

Anyhow, there are many quotes in the New Testament that reference the deteuros, proof of the Septuagint being widely used and accepted during Jesus’ time. Case closed.
 
merrill249 said:
also how did Pope Damasus make uninspired writings become divine ??
Click to expand...
He didn’t. Neither did the Church. Inspired writings are inspired when they are written. What the Church did, over a 300 year period, was PROVE what books were inspired and which were not. They did not assume they were inspired. For example, there were 15 “books of acts” circulating. The real book of Acts did not announce itself as inspired, it did not float in the air with a glowing light for individual believers to see. One criteria, out of 4 main ones, was the so-called inspired text had to measure up with Apostolic Teaching, and if didn’t, it was rejected. Real people on planet earth had to have been given divine authority to prove inspiration. The Church does not get this authority from mere men.

This is what Protestants can’t accept. The divine meeting the human. The historical facts of the origins of the bible favor the Catholic position, therefore it is necessary for Protestants to make their own “facts” to support, not the truth, but an agenda.

A Visual Diagram of the History of the New Testament Canon
 
there was a Hebrew scripture which was fixed. this is what Christ himself quoted from and the Hebrew scripture NEVER included and of the extra books. note that the Hebrew scripture contained the very same books as the protestant bible.
Click to expand...
That is just false, but fundies do not like to deal with facts.
There was no Jewish canon until after Jesus has left the scene.
 
The modern Jewish masoretic canon is based on list of books made by Pharisees rabbis.
Between 200Bc and the 700AD. Do they have any binding power over Christianity?
 
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