Question on Biblical authority

[mathematoons]

I’m a member of DeviantART, and I was considering joining a group for Christians, but I’m not quite sure about the statement of faith: christians.deviantart.com/blog/13206367/

The thing that made me stop is this:

The Holy Scriptures, comprised of Old and New Testaments, are fully and verbally inspired by God and are therefore infallible in the original writings and completely trustworthy in all areas in which they speak. Their central salvation message and essential teachings are clear and accessible to all who follow the standard and self-evident rules of literary interpretation. They are therefore the supreme, unmediated, and final authority of faith and practice for every believer.

Does this exclude Catholics? Does this mean a person must interpret the Bible for him/herself and ignore Sacred Tradition and the Popes (i.e. be a Protestant) in order to be a member? I’m not prepared to make this statement of faith if it excludes Catholics.

 

[Ranp]

I’m a member of DeviantART, and I was considering joining a group for Christians, but I’m not quite sure about the statement of faith: christians.deviantart.com/blog/13206367/

The thing that made me stop is this:

Does this exclude Catholics? Does this mean a person must interpret the Bible for him/herself and ignore Sacred Tradition and the Popes (i.e. be a Protestant) in order to be a member? I’m not prepared to make this statement of faith if it excludes Catholics.

I may be corrected by others but as I understand things the Bible says the Church is the pilar and grounds of the truth, not Scripture. Therefore while the Bible is correct and without error it is not the “…final authority of faith and practice…” for Catholics.

Ran

 

[ctkrcia]

Scripture itself warns of personal or private interpretations. Scripture is only clear when taken as whole (not single verses or “proof texts”) and in light of sacred Tradition.

Remember, not all of which God has chosen to reveal is contained in the Bible. Furthermore, God continues to work in all of today. However, the “deposit of faith” was complete with the death of the last apostle. But the understanding of that deposit takes time. For example, it was several hundred years before the concept of the Trinity was formulated.

To fully understand God to the extent we can in this world means keeping our minds open to teachings beyond Scripture while keeping the teaching of Scripture in full sight. We should be very cautious and suspicious of any teachings that oppose Scripture.

Lastly, we should always look to the church for guidance. As Ran stated, 2 Tim 3:15 states that the church is the pillar and foundation of truth. If we want to know the truth of what Scripture or Tradition, we have to look to the church Jesus founded - the Catholic church.

 

[Krakatoa]

The Bible is not a complete record of the history of the Church, nor does it contain an answer for every conceivable human question. It was never meant to be these things. It is mainly a partial record of the Patriarchs, the Prophets, Christ, and some of the earliest Saints. Much of Church history has been passed down from oral Tradition, as well as from other non-inspired writings, and is not in the Bible. While the Bible is inspired by God, the final authority rests with the (Catholic) Church, and not the Bible.

 

[Iron_Donkey]

Yeah, the “central salvation message and essential teachings are clear and accessible to all who follow the standard and self-evident rules of literary interpretation” part is certainly not true (unless the self-evident rules are “what the Church says”), as demonstrated by the number of denominations that try to interpret scripture and do it differently.

If joining that group meant appearing to agree with that statement, I’d shy away. But if you can join without doing so, it might be worth it.

 

[SonCatcher]

The Holy Scriptures, comprised of Old and New Testaments, are fully and verbally inspired by God and are therefore **infallible in the original writings **and completely trustworthy in all areas in which they speak. Their central salvation message and essential teachings are **clear and accessible to all **who follow the standard and self-evident rules of literary interpretation. They are therefore the supreme, unmediated, and final authority of faith and practice for every believer.

Am I imagining things or does this state that all people are natively fluent in Hebrew and Greek?

Also, what on earth is a “self-evident rule of literary interpretation?” Things that are self-evident are governed by Natural Law. What is the Natural Law of the written word?

 

[Tiberius1701]

Does this exclude Catholics? Does this mean a person must interpret the Bible for him/herself and ignore Sacred Tradition and the Popes (i.e. be a Protestant) in order to be a member? I’m not prepared to make this statement of faith if it excludes Catholics.

I would say that, yes, it is definitely exclusive against Catholics since we believe that Sacred Tradition and the Magisterium hold equal authority with Sacred Scripture.

 

[TimothyH]

Clearly a sola scriptura group. They also have this to say.

qoute Jesus’ death on the cross provided a penal substitutionary atonement for the sins of humanity. In salvation we are rescued from God’s wrath by His unmerited grace alone, through faith alone, on account of Christ alone.

Isn’t “Penal Subsitutionary Atonement” a belief of the Universalists? I know I have heard my Evangelical friends speaking about it.

The OP is right to question whether he should join this group or not.

-Tim-

 

[Tiberius1701]

Am I imagining things or does this state that all people are natively fluent in Hebrew and Greek?

Also, what on earth is a “self-evident rule of literary interpretation?” Things that are self-evident are governed by Natural Law. What is the Natural Law of the written word?

Well, as someone who has watched the English language degenerate over the last 30 years, and who has studied the history of language a bit, I think the self-evident rule of the written word is that, spelling and meaning are fluid and judged only by the individual, thus, if you want to understand, say, the KJV, you don’t need to recognize that it was written in a dialect of English that died out over 500 years ago, you just say, “Huh. We don’t use that word any more, therefore I can make it mean whatever I want!”

See? The natural law of linguistics is the colloquial degredation of language. Thus, applied to the question of being fluent in Koine Greek, we don’t actually have to understand the “infallible original,” we can just say, “that silly word looks like this English word, thus I have determined infallibly that it means what I want it to mean, not what the author said.”

 

[JM3]

Does this exclude Catholics?

Yes, it does.

About Us

The deviantMISSION is made up of those who ‘believe in’ and understand the sacrifice made by Jesus Christ for our sins and uphold the word of God (The Bible) as the supreme and final authority in all matters on which it speaks.

It is necessary that you understand that by adding your name to our group, you are in fact subscribing to our Essentials of Christianity & Statement of Faith. If you do not agree with them, this is not a group for you.*

 

[CountrySteve]

I’m a member of DeviantART, and I was considering joining a group for Christians, but I’m not quite sure about the statement of faith: christians.deviantart.com/blog/13206367/

The thing that made me stop is this:

Does this exclude Catholics? Does this mean a person must interpret the Bible for him/herself and ignore Sacred Tradition and the Popes (i.e. be a Protestant) in order to be a member? I’m not prepared to make this statement of faith if it excludes Catholics.

hey off topic but if you get the chance can you check out my sisters art she thinks she sucks her name is chimerafox on devianart

 

[SonCatcher]

Clearly a sola scriptura group. They also have this to say.

(6) Jesus’ death on the cross provided a penal substitutionary atonement

They’re taking St. Anselm to the extreme.

Well, as someone who has watched the English language degenerate over the last 30 years, and who has studied the history of language a bit, I think the self-evident rule of the written word is that, spelling and meaning are fluid and judged only by the individual, thus, if you want to understand, say, the KJV, you don’t need to recognize that it was written in a dialect of English that died out over 500 years ago, you just say, “Huh. We don’t use that word any more, therefore I can make it mean whatever I want!”

See? The natural law of linguistics is the colloquial degredation of language. Thus, applied to the question of being fluent in Koine Greek, we don’t actually have to understand the “infallible original,” we can just say, “that silly word looks like this English word, thus I have determined infallibly that it means what I want it to mean, not what the author said.”

 

[Tiberius1701]

You know, since this group for Christians doesn’t accept the authentic, traditional beliefs of Christianity as Christ designed it, perhaps you should start a new group that does fit Catholic teaching. An excellent creed you could ask all prospective members to accept is the one that Pope Paul VI promulgated on my birthday (June 30th) in 1968. (I wasn’t born yet, but it was going to be my birthday… in 1981.) His wonderfully circumspect creed can be found here, among many other places. The actual creed part of it starts in paragraph 8. I’d post it here, but it’s quite long…

 

[mathematoons]

Thanks everyone!

I’ll be sure to steer clear of that group.

 

[NHInsider]

**Any **statement of faith that says the Bible is the “final authority” is explicitly rejecting Catholic doctrine - and it’s a pretty common buzz word.

The Church defined, preserved and transmitted Scripture, and is the final authority on both what is Scripture and what it means/how it applies to our lives.

Scripture is part of Tradition. Tradition cannot contradict Scripture, but that doesn’t make Scripture the final authority.