Question on Byzantine deacons

[malphono]

I seem to recall a thread here a while back that mentioned Byzantine liturgy in the absence of a deacon. I can’t seem to find it at the moment, so I’ll ask our Byzantine bretheren : (a) when an ordained deacon is not present, who takes the deacon’s parts? (b) does a priest ever take the deacon’s role, and if so, how does he vest? (c) is it the same for a hierarchical liturgy?

If it makes a difference (and it well may), the question comes up from a telecast that I very recently saw of a Melkite bishop presiding at DL with two priest-concelebrants but absent a deacon. The priest-concelebrants took the deacon’s parts which just struck me as a little strange (NB: there were servers and a cantor present), particularly at a hierarchical DL. Other than that, the DL seemed (to this non-Byzantine, at least) to have been flawless.

 

[Mgthesixth]

If i remember right, there are certain parts that are omitted if there is no deacon present and the priest takes over certain aspects of the liturgy that the deacons do, like incensing the church for example.

 

[RyanBlack]

When I was in the OCA (was a very brief time), when there was no deacon for the liturgy and only one priest, the priest took the part of the deacon as well. When there was no deacon and two priests, the priest who was not the pastor would take the part of the deacon, but would vest as a priest. I’ve never been to a hierarchical liturgy in the Orthodox Church.

In my Byzantine Catholic parish, we have two deacons, so we are rarely without a deacon, but when we are, the priest takes the role of the deacon as well. In those instances when we’ve had more than one priest present for liturgy, but no deacon, the pastor, unlike my experience in the OCA, still would take the role of the deacon, while the concelebrating priest(s) would take certain parts of the priestly prayers at the direction of the pastor. Like my experience in the OCA, our priests always vest as priests, never as deacons. In my Byzantine Catholic parish, I’ve attended four hierarchical liturgies, and I believe all four had at least one deacon present.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I seem to recall a thread here a while back that mentioned Byzantine liturgy in the absence of a deacon. I can’t seem to find it at the moment, so I’ll ask our Byzantine bretheren : (a) when an ordained deacon is not present, who takes the deacon’s parts? (b) does a priest ever take the deacon’s role, and if so, how does he vest? (c) is it the same for a hierarchical liturgy?

If it makes a difference (and it well may), the question comes up from a telecast that I very recently saw of a Melkite bishop presiding at DL with two priest-concelebrants but absent a deacon. The priest-concelebrants took the deacon’s parts which just struck me as a little strange (NB: there were servers and a cantor present), particularly at a hierarchical DL. Other than that, the DL seemed (to this non-Byzantine, at least) to have been flawless.

We do not have a Deacon in our parish although one may visit from time to time. The priest will take the Deacon’s parts and say all audible prayers. I don’t know how he can say all the inaudible parts although my guess is he still pretty much gets to say most of those as well.

If there is more than one priest or if the Bishop is there with the priest, those celebrating would alternate the audible parts, but mostly whoever is the main celebrant who will lead most of the audible prayers usually assigned to a Deacon.

The priests will be vested as priests and the bishop will be vested as a bishop. No one vests as a deacon.

At least thats how we do it at my parish.

 

[5Loaves]

I seem to recall a thread here a while back that mentioned Byzantine liturgy in the absence of a deacon.

I don’t recall there being a thread here on that topic, could have been and I’m just not recalling it. Byzcath did have a thread “Should priests vest as deacons and serve as such?” which went on for a long period.

 

[LosCampanas]

I seem to recall a thread here a while back that mentioned Byzantine liturgy in the absence of a deacon. I can’t seem to find it at the moment, so I’ll ask our Byzantine bretheren : (a) when an ordained deacon is not present, who takes the deacon’s parts? (b) does a priest ever take the deacon’s role, and if so, how does he vest? (c) is it the same for a hierarchical liturgy?

If it makes a difference (and it well may), the question comes up from a telecast that I very recently saw of a Melkite bishop presiding at DL with two priest-concelebrants but absent a deacon. The priest-concelebrants took the deacon’s parts which just struck me as a little strange (NB: there were servers and a cantor present), particularly at a hierarchical DL. Other than that, the DL seemed (to this non-Byzantine, at least) to have been flawless.

A second priest would not take the place of a deacon – although he might well concelebrate as a priest.

 

[ciero]

In the Byzantine Liturgy (both Catholic & Orthodox), in the absence of a deacon the priest would take most if not all of his parts. The priest would do the incensations the deacon would normally do and take all the litanies the deacon would normaly do as well. The priest would vest as a priest. If there is more then one priest they would both vest as priests and concelebrate, usually splitting the litanies up between them. A priest should NEVER vest as a deacon in the Byzantine Rite.
When a priest does take the deacons part the priest takes the litanies standing at his place at the alter and not on the ambon where the deacon would usually stand.

 

[Vico]

I seem to recall a thread here a while back that mentioned Byzantine liturgy in the absence of a deacon. I can’t seem to find it at the moment, so I’ll ask our Byzantine bretheren : (a) when an ordained deacon is not present, who takes the deacon’s parts? (b) does a priest ever take the deacon’s role, and if so, how does he vest? (c) is it the same for a hierarchical liturgy?

If it makes a difference (and it well may), the question comes up from a telecast that I very recently saw of a Melkite bishop presiding at DL with two priest-concelebrants but absent a deacon. The priest-concelebrants took the deacon’s parts which just struck me as a little strange (NB: there were servers and a cantor present), particularly at a hierarchical DL. Other than that, the DL seemed (to this non-Byzantine, at least) to have been flawless.

I’m not showing it all because it is several pages long. Basically some parts are omitted, the celebrant takes some parts, and concelebrants may take some parts. I believe vesting is the same as usual for a priest.

In the Celebrants 2006 book of the Divine Liturgy for the Byzantine Church (USA), it states:

“Certain texts are not recited by all concelebrants. These are texts connected with specific actions during the Liturgy proper to the main celebrant and include: …”

“Whenever a priest celebrates the Divine Liturgy in the absence of a deacon, the priest omits the following parts proper only to the deacon …”

“In the absence of a deacon, concelebrants, if present, say all the other formulas proper to the deacon except the following that are always intoned by the celebrant: …”

“Concelebrants may intone: …”

"Regarding litanies, in the absence of a deacon:
· Each litany is an integral unit to be intoned by one priest.
· The Litany of Peace, together with its prayer and doxology, may be intoned by a concelebrant.
… "

“Ritual actions, in the absence of a deacon:
• The celebrant performs the initial incensation, saying the Troparion “When your body was in the tomb” and Psalm 50.
• The celebrant opens and closes the holy doors.
• The celebrant carries the holy gospel in the Little Entrance.
• The celebrant incenses during the “Alleluia” before the Gospel and he then proclaims the reading of the Gospel.
• The celebrant incenses during the Chreubikon, saying Psalm 50.
• The celebrant blesses the diskos with the asterisk while intoning, “Singing, shouting.”
• The celebrant elevates the diskos and chalice at the words, “Offering you, your own.”
• The celebrant pours the hot water into the chalice while saying, “The fervor of faith.””

 

[Aramis]

I seem to recall a thread here a while back that mentioned Byzantine liturgy in the absence of a deacon. I can’t seem to find it at the moment, so I’ll ask our Byzantine bretheren : (a) when an ordained deacon is not present, who takes the deacon’s parts? (b) does a priest ever take the deacon’s role, and if so, how does he vest? (c) is it the same for a hierarchical liturgy?

If it makes a difference (and it well may), the question comes up from a telecast that I very recently saw of a Melkite bishop presiding at DL with two priest-concelebrants but absent a deacon. The priest-concelebrants took the deacon’s parts which just struck me as a little strange (NB: there were servers and a cantor present), particularly at a hierarchical DL. Other than that, the DL seemed (to this non-Byzantine, at least) to have been flawless.

The prompts to the celebrant by the deacon are omitted. Most of those you’d not notice anyway…
The Deacon’s instructions to the people are done by a concelebrant, or, lacking concelebrants, the celebrant.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

In the Byzantine Liturgy (both Catholic & Orthodox), in the absence of a deacon the priest would take most if not all of his parts. The priest would do the incensations the deacon would normally do and take all the litanies the deacon would normaly do as well. The priest would vest as a priest. If there is more then one priest they would both vest as priests and concelebrate, usually splitting the litanies up between them. A priest should NEVER vest as a deacon in the Byzantine Rite.
When a priest does take the deacons part the priest takes the litanies standing at his place at the altar and not on the ambon where the deacon would usually stand.

The only time I have seen a priest take the deacon’s part and do it from where the deacon would do it is when he takes the place of the Archdeacon in introducing the candidate (deacon) to be ordained to the priesthood, both times I saw this the priest vested as a priest and concelebrated from within the iconostasis. This priest also happened to be the rector of the seminary.

As for the implied question,

The priest-concelebrants took the deacon’s parts which just struck me as a little strange (NB: there were servers and a cantor present)

In the Byzantine Tradition, as well as the Latin Tradition, I do not believe it is right for a lower order to take the parts of a higher order. Which I fully understand and think is correct. How can a minor order fulfill the duties of a major order they do not have? At least a priest is a deacon (technically speaking as he was necessarily ordained a deacon before being a priest) so does a priest stop being a deacon because he is now a priest?

But how can a sub-deacon, or a cantor, or a server, fill the role of a deacon when they have never been ordained to such? (Actually, unless the servers are ordained as acolytes or the cantors are ordained as such they are not even ordained (I do not believe that our bishops are ordaining acolytes and cantors except for the steps to the diaconate or priesthood, same goes for sub-deacons.))

After having said all this I must go back. I do recall an instance where two priests served Compline at the All-Night Vigil in the Crypt Chapel at the Shrine of the Immaculate Conception the night before the March for Life. Bishop Andrew of Passaic (whose Eparchy covers DC) was vested as a bishop but the two priests helping him vested as deacons (which I and many other Byzantines thought was wrong, they may act as deacons but they should have vested as priests). I do not know if Bishop William is still doing this or if he even was the celebrant at the Byzantine Compline since he has taken over the Eparchy of Passaic.

I apologize for the rambling nature of this reply.

 

[Vico]

…

does a priest stop being a deacon because he is now a priest?

But how can a sub-deacon, or a cantor, or a server, fill the role of a deacon when they have never been ordained to such? (Actually, unless the servers are ordained as acolytes or the cantors are ordained as such they are not even ordained (I do not believe that our bishops are ordaining acolytes and cantors except for the steps to the diaconate or priesthood, same goes for sub-deacons.))

…

My pastor said he is also a deacon. The pastor approves the servers at the altar that will handle the incense, candles, hold the gospel, etc., so they have not been ordained in minor orders. Perhaps canon 327 (below) is an ideal that will be achived in the future.

I believe the subdeacon role is the hierarchical Divine Liturgy (specifically assisting the bishop).

From the Byzantine Particular Law (Archeparchy of Pittsburgh).

Canon 327
§1. Men who are properly prepared can be ordained to the offices of acolyte, lector cantor and subdeacon, who are minor clerics.
§2. Minor clerics will be governed by proper statute issued by competent authority.

 

[malphono]

In the Byzantine Liturgy (both Catholic & Orthodox), in the absence of a deacon the priest would take most if not all of his parts. The priest would do the incensations the deacon would normally do and take all the litanies the deacon would normaly do as well. The priest would vest as a priest. If there is more then one priest they would both vest as priests and concelebrate, usually splitting the litanies up between them. A priest should NEVER vest as a deacon in the Byzantine Rite.
When a priest does take the deacons part the priest takes the litanies standing at his place at the alter and not on the ambon where the deacon would usually stand.

The prompts to the celebrant by the deacon are omitted. Most of those you’d not notice anyway…
The Deacon’s instructions to the people are done by a concelebrant, or, lacking concelebrants, the celebrant.

Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut and the information. I kind of expected it would be something along those lines, but I wanted to pose the question to those who are intimately familiar with Byzantine practice.

I suppose I should have been clearer in my original question, though: given that the telecast was of a hierarchical DL in an eparchial cathedral, I found the absence of a deacon strange in itself. But then again, maybe it was just a matter of logistics.

FWIW, in the Syriac Churches, (and I think I’ve said this before), where a deacon is not present, the deacon’s parts are usually split up: certain things are taken by the celebrant (or a concelebrating priest) while others are given to a sub-deacon (if present) or the cantor. I’ve also seen where a non-celebrating priest takes some of the deacon’s parts from choir. (In that case, the priest is in choir dress, either with or without a priestly stole.) AFAIK, the same is true among the Chaldeans as well.

 

[malphono]

Speaking of Byzantine deacons (in particular Melkite), do they normally wear the kamilavkion?

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Speaking of Byzantine deacons (in particular Melkite), do they normally wear the kamilavkion?

In my Melkite parish back home they do.

 

[malphono]

In my Melkite parish back home they do.

Thanks.