Question on Christ's suffering

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When Christ suffered for us on the Cross, did The Father and The Holy Ghost also suffer? They are, after all, One God. Or am I not fully understanding the nature of the Holy Trinity?

The priest was mumbling a little during his homily today :o!

Regards,
JP.
 
God cannot suffer* - at least not the way His creatures do. God is always in a state of bliss, and His “divine suffering”, for lack of a better term, due to His creatures does not change that fact - God does not change (Malachi 3:6).
  • However, by the Word of God becoming flesh - taking on a human nature - He, Jesus Christ, in His human nature, suffered as any other human being suffers - physically, mentally, emotionally.
So the answer is no - the Father and the Holy Spirit did not suffer the way that Christ did. And it is for this reason that the Father has “put all things under” His Son (John 13:3, Ephesians 1:22). The Kingdom of God belongs to Jesus Christ (Ephesians 5:5). It is by the merits of Christ that we can be saved (John 3:17), and it is Christ who will judge us (2 Timothy 4:1). And then, when the Kingdom of God is complete, Christ will “hand over the kingdom to God the Father” (1 Corinthians 15:24).

Does that cover it? 🙂
 
I believe the term Patripassianism is the term for the early church heresy which argued that God the Father suffered in the sufferings of Jesus Christ.
 
Does that cover it? 🙂
Somewhat, Luke. I believe I am misunderstanding the concept of the Holy Trinity, so I am going to flip through some Aquinas to see if he can help more.

Thanks :).
I believe the term Patripassianism is the term for the early church heresy which argued that God the Father suffered in the sufferings of Jesus Christ.
Hey, calm down! I am not trying to promote any heresies. It was just a curious question.

Regards,
JP.
 
Something happens within God which anthropomorphically resembles “suffering.” The “mathematical” answer that “God can’t suffer” is inadequate. Scripture is jammed with references to human-resembling traits within God. Some of these references are just plain shocking. Things like God laughing at the suffering of the damned.

Sometimes, the Thomistic view of God, which tends to reduce Him to a cold divine computer, is too Platonistic, I think.
 
Hey, calm down! I am not trying to promote any heresies. It was just a curious question.

JP.
Hey JP. I think you misunderstood me. I wasn’t accusing you of heresy :confused: I’ve actually pondered exactly what you are posting about. I thought I would do a quick post on the fly as to semantics, and, serves me right. Came across wrong.

Should our paths ever cross in life, please feel free to boot me in my stomach.😛

God Bless! Andrew
 
=Jon Paul;5297946]When Christ suffered for us on the Cross, did The Father and The Holy Ghost also suffer? They are, after all, One God. Or am I not fully understanding the nature of the Holy Trinity?
The priest was mumbling a little during his homily today :o!
Regards,
JP.
The short answer is YES! Very perceptive question. Well done!

But did Jesus "have to suffer?"

Love and prayers,

Pat
 
The short answer is YES! Very perceptive question. Well done!

But did Jesus "have to suffer?"

Love and prayers,

Pat
At Getsamane Jesus said to his Father Almighty God “Father let this cup be taken away from me but if it is thy will let it be done” It was therefor the will of the Father that for the salvation of the people a supreme sacrfise had to be made by the Son.The Son suffered as he took upon himself the Human nature.In the spiritual nature which Jesus manifested after his resurrection he could not have suffered.God is spiritual and cannot suffer.
 
Lord Jesus Christ said in John 10:38 that the Father is in him (the son) and he (the son) is in the Father, so to some extent God the Father did suffer, although his son, Jesus Christ ( the good son) willingly took on the punishment for mankinds sins.
 
At Getsamane Jesus said to his Father Almighty God “Father let this cup be taken away from me but if it is thy will let it be done” It was therefor the will of the Father that for the salvation of the people a supreme sacrfise had to be made by the Son.The Son suffered as he took upon himself the Human nature.In the spiritual nature which Jesus manifested after his resurrection he could not have suffered.God is spiritual and cannot suffer.
Watch out for “false doctrine” like the quote above. Jesus Christ “is” Almighty God not just God the Father and the Holy Spirit. The Spirit of Antichrist denys the Father and Son (i.e. teaches Jesus not God). Another reason the above quote is false is provided in Luke 24:39:

after Jesus was resurrected he still maintained FLESH and BLOOD (Luke 24:39)

Holy Trinity = God
God = Father,Son, Holy Spirit
 
=jofo817;5327027]Lord Jesus Christ said in John 10:38 that the Father is in him (the son) and he (the son) is in the Father, so to some extent God the Father did suffer, although his son, Jesus Christ ( the good son) willingly took on the punishment for mankinds sins.
This is not a FULLY correct statement of Catholic teaching.

CCC # 253 The Trinity is One. We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the “consubstantial Trinity”. The divine persons do not share the one divinity among themselves but each of them is God whole and entire: “The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, i.e. by nature one God.” In the words of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215), “Each of the persons is that supreme reality, viz., the divine substance, essence or nature.”

CCC # 234 The mystery of the Most Holy Trinity is the central mystery of Christian faith and life. It is the mystery of God in himself. It is therefore the source of all the other mysteries of faith, the light that enlightens them. It is the most fundamental and essential teaching in the “hierarchy of the truths of faith”. The whole history of salvation is identical with the history of the way and the means by which the one true God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, reveals himself to men “and reconciles and unites with himself those who turn away from sin”.

**What “One desires” they all desire, what “one experiences” they all experience.
**

Love and prayers,
 
Jesus suffered spiritual death in order for us to be saved. You see, our nature had to be changed. Before salvation, people have the nature of the devil. This is why we need to be born again to enter into heaven. Jesus is called the second Adam. He took upon Himself our sin nature, and if we accept the message of the Gospel, we can be saved by what Jesus did, and not by what we do.
Peace, Golfjack
 
=golfjack;5333278]Jesus suffered spiritual death in order for us to be saved. You see, our nature had to be changed. Before salvation, people have the nature of the devil. This is why we need to be born again to enter into heaven. Jesus is called the second Adam. He took upon Himself our sin nature, and if we accept the message of the Gospel, we can be saved by what Jesus did, and not by what we do.
Peace, Golfjack
***Jcck what you are claiming is antibiblical. Not only not in the bible, but teaching against what the bible says.

So the scouraging at the piller, crowing with thorns and being nailed to a cross are only “a spiritual death?”:/*I]shrug:

OSAS is not biblical***
= ** I know I’m saved because when God sees me, He sees the Blood of the Lamb. **
*** The Reply:***

Romans 3:25 "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;"

Dear friends,

God wants you to know THE TRUTH, and your current understanding is neither biblical, nor is it even logical. PLEASE read on.

I’m going to list a series of Bible passages that disagree with your present understanding.

Do yourself a huge favor and look them up. It is what God would want you to do.

Jn. 3:5, Jn. 3:36, 2 Tim. 3:16, 2 Cor. 9:13, Mt. 19:16- 17, Phil. 2: 12-13, Lk. 10:16,Mt.16:19 [Speaking to St. Peter], 2 Thes.2:9-12, 1 Tim. 2: 3, 2 Cor.13:8, 2 Tim. 4: 3-5, Jn. 16:12-13, Jn. 17: speaking about the Apostles; 14-19, Jn. 14: 15,Jn.12:34 [please keep in mind the bible was the exclusive property for 1,600 years!] Thess 5: 9-11,
1 Jn. Chapter 5, Jn.20:23-24.

No doubt I can find more but here in super-abundance is Biblical evidence that your position is seriously flawed. For the sake of salvation, take the time to look these up.

*** God can be briefly described as “all, and only all good, perfectly.”***

The second issue is the lack of common-sense and logic for your position. Because God is, must be Fair and Just, in order to be “all-good,” God simply cannot, as in its impossible for God to judge everyone’s life decisions the same.

If your a “petty thief” and die with unrepented and unconfessed sins on your soul, you will still eventually get to heaven, so long as there are no Mortal sins on your soul, that are unconfessed and unrepented. [1 Jn. chapter 5]

If I’m a cold bloodied serial killer and die with these Mortal sins on my soul, unconfessed and unrepented, I’m going to hell. Even if I “know Jesus.” If this is “human justice” how much more fair and just must be our Lord? ***

Friend, you don’t “know Jesus if you don’t know and obey what He teaches.” Amen!

**
 
PJM, You are the one who is wrong my friend. Man is a spirit living in a body, and can be reborn. His nature can be changed. HHe can become a new creature in Christ Jesus.

It doesn’t matter how well ecucated man becomes, how good a social worker he is, nor how religious he is, he cannot stand in the presense of God. His nature is wrong. Man is lost today, not because of what he does, but because of what he is. ( what he does is the result of what he is). Man needs life from God , because he is spiritually dead. Thanks be to God, Christ has redeemed us from spiritual death.

The new Man, Jesus Christ had no death in Him. He was not born as we are born, and He didn’t have the spiritual nature of death, the devil, in Him. Yet the Bible says in Heb. 2:9 that He tasted death for every man.

Jesus Christ took upon Himself our sin nature. Heb. 9:26 says He… put away sin ( not sins) by the sacrifice of Himself. He took upon Himself our sin nature, the nature of spiritual death, that we might have Eternal Life. 👍👍
Peace, Golfjack
 
=golfjack;5333751]PJM, You are the one who is wrong my friend. Man is a spirit living in a body, and can be reborn. His nature can be changed. He can become a new creature in Christ Jesus.
It doesn’t matter how well ecucated man becomes, how good a social worker he is, nor how religious he is, he cannot stand in the presense of God. His nature is wrong. Man is lost today, not because of what he does, but because of what he is. ( what he does is the result of what he is). Man needs life from God , because he is spiritually dead. Thanks be to God, Christ has redeemed us from spiritual death.
The new Man, Jesus Christ had no death in Him. He was not born as we are born, and He didn’t have the spiritual nature of death, the devil, in Him. Yet the Bible says in Heb. 2:9 that He tasted death for every man.
Jesus Christ took upon Himself our sin nature. Heb. 9:26 says He… put away sin ( not sins) by the sacrifice of Himself. He took upon Himself our sin nature, the nature of spiritual death, that we might have Eternal Life. 👍👍
Code:
    Peace,    Golfjack
Jack my friend,

your over thinking the topic which is leading you to a conclusion, which I have clearly identified as being anti -biblical. Not only not in the bible, but actaully contrary to what the bible actaully says, and what Christ actually teaches.

IF you desire to refute my claims, it seems reasonable to attempt to do so by posting the bible verses I shared, and then sharing with us why they are wrong, or I am wrong for accepting them.

Short of doing that friend I’m dealing with Biblical FACTS, while you respond with your persoanl philosophy. NOT GOOD ENOUGH :rolleyes:

Love and prayers Jack,
Pat
 
My friend, interpretation is our disputes with each other. I could interpret every one of the scriptures you gave me, but it all boils down to who is right, doesn’t it?
Peace, Golfjack
 
My friend, interpretation is our disputes with each other. I could interpret every one of the scriptures you gave me, but it all boils down to who is right, doesn’t it?
Code:
    Peace,   Golfjack
Actually the solution is simple. Rely ONLY on the ONES Christ choose to do that very task, the RCC, and you’ll never be wrong.

19 “I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” This is clear, specific an unambigious.

Romans 10: 17 So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes by the preaching of Christ." As is this. Notice it does not say “reading” rather it specifies hearing. Amen! 👍


Love and prayers,

Pat
 
The problem is Christ did not chose your church to interpret scriptures. You guys just assume that is true. Every born again Christian is a member of Christ’s Church, and not just a bunch of Catholics. Actually, the church has no human head of the body of Christ.
Peace, Golfjack
 
The problem is Christ did not chose your church to interpret scriptures. You guys just assume that is true. Every born again Christian is a member of Christ’s Church, and not just a bunch of Catholics. Actually, the church has no human head of the body of Christ.
Code:
     Peace,    Golfjack
OK Jack,

Keep your head down and swing through the ball!

:blush:Have a great life 🤷
 
My money is on Tiger this week. Have a great day in the Lord.
Peace, Golfjack
 
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