Question on Conspiracy Theories

[Natethegreataz]

Hello everyone, this is my first post in these great forums. I have just recently been baptized, last year’s Easter Vigil so yes I’m a newish convert, this year’s EV will be my one year anniversary of being baptized in the church.

With that said, I have always been somewhat of a conspiracy theorist. Now I know what you’re thinking, “Oh one of these guys again, get out the tin foil hats folks.” I am more of a realist conspiracy theorist, I think of things on a more real, close to reality level. To give you an example of who I listen to mostly is Alex Jones, I do listen to his show on and off but more so again lately for some reason. I stopped the conspiracies for awhile before on my journey in RCIA and after I was converted, but for some reason I feel drawn to them again.

Alex Jones is an anti NWO type conspiracy theorist and that’s where I fit in to. He does say a lot of good things that I do agree with, and he does stick more to the reality of things. What I mean by reality, I don’t mean these other types of conspiracies that I would classify as nonsense, like aliens, ufo’s, planet x/nibiru/annunaki/fallen alien angels type stuff, the government is run by a bunch of reptilian aliens ect ect… Those are the kinds of conspiracies I find to be far out in fantasy land. But the NWO type conspiracy theories that leave out the aliens and stuff I find more real, like I said Alex Jones type stuff.

But the things I disagree with him on and this is the only problem with Alex Jones, he’s anti-Catholic, now, I have read a lot of Catholic conspiracies and everything, I used to be anti-Catholic myself, but now I see the truth in the church. I agree with Alex on a lot of things, like how shady the government is, the world governments, the UN, America is becoming a socialist police state, there are evil people in the higher ups, abortion is wrong, if babies don’t have any rights we don’t either, the stuff he goes off on eugenic scientists and stuff like that, the government is poisiong our water and food supplies adding gmo’s and msgs, putting flouride in our water ect ect… I believe this stuff is real, and we as Catholics, I think should be standing up to this more and bringing this stuff out in the open more.

But I was watching a video he posted on youtube, and the thing with Alex is he goes on rants sometimes, he made this anti-Catholic rant saying that the church is filled with nothing but of religious pharisees, the church is a control system, it’s the dirty church on the hill ect and the only thing I could do was facepalm and think “Alex, Alex, Alex, I love ya buddy, I love what you have to say but your views on the church are so wrong.” I would just like to get your all’s opinion on this stuff. Am I right for being a conspiracy theroist, for seeing evil for what it is, but also seeing the truth in the Catholic church for what it is as well? Are these views wrong of me to have as a Catholic? I would love to hear from you all and God Bless. I posted a video I watched recently on one of Alex Jone’s anti-abortion articles and rants he does just to give you an idea of what he’s about if you’ve never heard of him before. Just copy and paste the link in another browser.

youtube.com/watch?list=UUvsye7V9psc-APX6wV1twLg&v=R58SrsWw96o

 

[GEddie]

Large world organizations are easy targets of conspiratism.

The Catholic Church is the largest and the oldest of such entities.

This makes it one of the easiest targets of conspiratorial theories. No biggie.

ICXC NIKA

 

[catholicscot]

Conspiracy theories are undisprovable, any evidence which appears to disprove them can be dismissed as being itself the product of the conspirators. It is, therefore, a very satisfactory way of explaining the world because it has a scapegoat who can be blamed, thus leaving ourselves unblameable, and it is infinitely flexible since any bad thing that happens can be slotted into it without needing to wait for actual evidence.

I find conspiracy theories deeply unconvincing for various reasons-

Firstly, although conspiracies do happen the successful ones only involve a handful of people. The more people involved in trying to keep a secret the less chance there is of it being kept. You tell 20 people in strict secrecy that you have won the lottery and then wait to see how long the story takes to get out.

Secondly, people are often lazy, incompetent or downright stupid when it comes to understanding and following instructions. People at work often fail to carry out the simplest task, waiters bring the wrong order to the wrong table, doctors perform surgery on the wrong patient. Conspirators, being people, are not super humanly efficient and you would expect them to be at least as inefficient as the rest of us but conspiracy theories never take this into account.

Thirdly, conspiracy theories are unnecessary. Catholic doctrine holds that as a result of original sin each person is prone to yield to temptation. This takes lots of forms, accepting bribes, using violence in pursuit of power, killing oneself in a dramatic fashion, being too idle to take the time to do ones job properly and so on. We would expect to see lots of bad stuff happening in the world and we do. I think the sub-text of conspiracy theories is that if we defeat the bad guys the world will be happy. It won’t. Until Jesus comes again the world will be full of sin and suffering foolishness and fighting.

Looking at the bad things that happen in our lives and in the world the first thing we need to consider is not the bad actions of others but those of ourselves. And looking at others the first thing we need to consider is not the wickedness that they might or might not be doing but the fact that they are so loved by God that He died on the cross for them. A programme of examining your conscience and loving your neighbour as yourself is a more productive one than that proposed by the likes of Mr Jones.

 

[Nelka]

Firstly, although conspiracies do happen the successful ones only involve a handful of people. The more people involved in trying to keep a secret the less chance there is of it being kept. You tell 20 people in strict secrecy that you have won the lottery and then wait to see how long the story takes to get out.

This is true.

It would be easier for the G7 although the Bilderberg Group could be up to something.

 

[John_Lazarus]

Of course the Catholic Church is part of a New World Order conspiracy.

Why do you think Catholic children always wrote “JMJ” on their exercise books?

“Jews - Masons - Jesuits”.

 

[frizzgrig]

Having been a part of various “large organizations” for much of my life, I find Hanlon’s razor is often true: “Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.”

Very few times do these large organizations actually have the cohesiveness to pull off the intricate plots attributed to them in the various conspiracy theories. Usually it just boils down to a few people who overlooked something. Subsequent coverups to try and limit exposure/liability are not unheard of, but these are usually exposed because the organization lacks the cohesiveness/discipline to keep the coverup from blowing up.

 

[robwar]

Op, you need to stop watching this guy and focus on Catholic sources and support your faith. I don’t watch anti-Catholic garage and you shouldn’t waste your time on this junk either.

 

[Jim_Baur]

The world is filled with people that conspire.

At my place of employment, people even conspire against other departments.

I suppose one could easily say that conspiracy is a law of human nature.

Some of us conspire to do loving and beautiful actions.

 

[Natethegreataz]

Thanks for all the replies. I get what a lot of you are saying, I guess I should say I don’t 100% support what Alex says sometimes, but he does make a lot of great points about things, these are just things that I feel have some truth in them. Like I said before though I don’t follow every conspiracy theory I hear either, without some personal research and if I feel they’re way out there in fantasy land, I just discredit them as nonsense. I’m not sure if anyone is familiar with the Rockefeller group which many people consider to be the Illuminati and stuff like that. But you have to admit, if you’re a US citizen, how can you look at what this country has become, the declining value of life, the encouraging of gay marriage, the socialist society this country is becoming and wonder “our founding fathers are literally turning over in their graves at how dumbed down and away from the America it once was.” God Bless.

 

[St_Francis]

My theory on conspiracy theories: there is a conspiracy. Look at how evil seems to be so coordinated!

Or, there is no conspiracy. People are not that efficient, nor are they that good at keeping secrets.

So, I think that the actions of sinners are directed in a certain direction, not by people but by Satan. This explains how there can seem to be so much coordination with such fallible participants.

So for me the solution is to increase prayer, both my own and those of others. Catholics used to pray a lot more; there used to be frequent devotions in the church and people prayed more in their families. Imagine if every Catholic in the US prayed for the conversion or reversion of our politicians!

 

[edwest2]

Hello everyone, this is my first post in these great forums. I have just recently been baptized, last year’s Easter Vigil so yes I’m a newish convert, this year’s EV will be my one year anniversary of being baptized in the church.

With that said, I have always been somewhat of a conspiracy theorist. Now I know what you’re thinking, “Oh one of these guys again, get out the tin foil hats folks.” I am more of a realist conspiracy theorist, I think of things on a more real, close to reality level. To give you an example of who I listen to mostly is Alex Jones, I do listen to his show on and off but more so again lately for some reason. I stopped the conspiracies for awhile before on my journey in RCIA and after I was converted, but for some reason I feel drawn to them again.

Alex Jones is an anti NWO type conspiracy theorist and that’s where I fit in to. He does say a lot of good things that I do agree with, and he does stick more to the reality of things. What I mean by reality, I don’t mean these other types of conspiracies that I would classify as nonsense, like aliens, ufo’s, planet x/nibiru/annunaki/fallen alien angels type stuff, the government is run by a bunch of reptilian aliens ect ect… Those are the kinds of conspiracies I find to be far out in fantasy land. But the NWO type conspiracy theories that leave out the aliens and stuff I find more real, like I said Alex Jones type stuff.

But the things I disagree with him on and this is the only problem with Alex Jones, he’s anti-Catholic, now, I have read a lot of Catholic conspiracies and everything, I used to be anti-Catholic myself, but now I see the truth in the church. I agree with Alex on a lot of things, like how shady the government is, the world governments, the UN, America is becoming a socialist police state, there are evil people in the higher ups, abortion is wrong, if babies don’t have any rights we don’t either, the stuff he goes off on eugenic scientists and stuff like that, the government is poisiong our water and food supplies adding gmo’s and msgs, putting flouride in our water ect ect… I believe this stuff is real, and we as Catholics, I think should be standing up to this more and bringing this stuff out in the open more.

But I was watching a video he posted on youtube, and the thing with Alex is he goes on rants sometimes, he made this anti-Catholic rant saying that the church is filled with nothing but of religious pharisees, the church is a control system, it’s the dirty church on the hill ect and the only thing I could do was facepalm and think “Alex, Alex, Alex, I love ya buddy, I love what you have to say but your views on the church are so wrong.” I would just like to get your all’s opinion on this stuff. Am I right for being a conspiracy theroist, for seeing evil for what it is, but also seeing the truth in the Catholic church for what it is as well? Are these views wrong of me to have as a Catholic? I would love to hear from you all and God Bless. I posted a video I watched recently on one of Alex Jone’s anti-abortion articles and rants he does just to give you an idea of what he’s about if you’ve never heard of him before. Just copy and paste the link in another browser.

youtube.com/watch?list=UUvsye7V9psc-APX6wV1twLg&v=R58SrsWw96o

Most conspiracy theories fall apart upon investigation. No evidence, no reliable witnesses or only rumors, speculation and those who enjoy pranks and creating hoaxes. However, some strange clues about an event that can be verified, inconsistencies found during a professional investigation and conflicting reports/testimonies which are judged credible, can and do sometimes lead to more than one individual being involved in an effort to conceal, or hide evidence to avoid capture, or proof that the group was involved in some type of crime or a desire to conceal valuable information from the public. Again, that is a real conspiracy - leads, witnesses, evidence, documents, computer files, etc.

Alex Jones is involved in a business. He is selling conspiracy theories which range from the totally outrageous to the questionable dead end, but, on occasion, something he mentions can be verified. If interested, always do your own research. HOWEVER, if it appears a crime was committed or organized crime or other professionals were involved, it may be best to stay away. In other cases, especially when fraud or corruption is concerned and it affects the public, sometimes records that appear related can be checked. Again, for public health threats, do your own research from reliable sources and references.

Fraud, corruption and hiding things from the people have always been going on. However, you may find very little. In other cases, the information will be classified. And, unless you really know what you are doing, I would avoid trying to find such information. In some cases, the people involved might look at your work as a threat.

Peace,
Ed

 

[edwest2]

Of course the Catholic Church is part of a New World Order conspiracy.

Why do you think Catholic children always wrote “JMJ” on their exercise books?

“Jews - Masons - Jesuits”.

That’s funny. Jesus Mary Joseph.

Ed

 

[GratefulFred]

First, a dictionary definition:

conspiracy
**1. **a planning and acting together secretly, esp. for an unlawful or harmful purpose, such as murder or treason
**2. **the plan agreed on; plot
**3. **the group taking part in such a plan

Planning and acting together secretly is not inherently wrong. See the “especially.”

Yes, most people tend to go directly to the special condition that secret plans and acts are for unlawful or harmful purposes.

But a football team conspires to beat the opposing team. For profit companies keep their business knowledge and plans secret to gain advantage on its competitors. Generally, nothing unlawful in these conspiracies. The “harmful” is seen as normal, within reason, competitive advantage.

A talk show host will use the elasticity of the meaning to extend his show. He can make something sound so much more the wrong by the words he uses. Example: “I am firm. You are stubborn. He is pigheaded. Yet we are all men of conviction.” He can also make something sound so much more the wrong by leaving out key facts and count on our inability to think of them. Many a good novel have become best sellers because the answer is held back to the last few pages. We buy into the story and are surprised to learn it was really something completely different.

Well, yes, there are real conspiracies. Quite often and quite harmful and usually illegal. A California State Senator was arrested today by the FBI. He is accused of conspiring in illegal ways. Guilty? Who knows. Wait and see.

I want to raise a new word related to conspiracy: oligarchy is a form of government in which the ruling power belongs to a few persons.
A typical oligarchy conspires to run an industry or nation in ways that suit them best. Others not connected can suffer. No matter to them. Most Monarchies were, are, oligarchies. The US Constitution was the first and perhaps the best departure from Monarchy. But not oligarchy. For still, today, small groups decide in secret who will be the front for their purposes. Yes, their choice has to stand for election so there is some control by those governed.

An excellent book to read is Rule By Secrecy. It provides a history of secret groups that is enlightening.

 

[mikekle]

Op, you need to stop watching this guy and focus on Catholic sources and support your faith. I don’t watch anti-Catholic garage and you shouldn’t waste your time on this junk either.

I wouldnt exactly call it all garbage…after all, Satan is the ultimate conspiracy theory, he convinced alot of people that he does not even exist, but christians know this is not true…its a conspiracy…right?

I think its very important for a christian, especially living in times like we do, to watch out for things like this, as they are clues about what is happening in the world, Satan and the antichrist will be here eventually and they are banking on alot of people NOT buying into all that ‘crazy religious talk’, so they can win them over, so they dont even realize whats going on, until its too late.

 

[Natethegreataz]

I wouldnt exactly call it all garbage…after all, Satan is the ultimate conspiracy theory, he convinced alot of people that he does not even exist, but christians know this is not true…its a conspiracy…right?

I think its very important for a christian, especially living in times like we do, to watch out for things like this, as they are clues about what is happening in the world, Satan and the antichrist will be here eventually and they are banking on alot of people NOT buying into all that ‘crazy religious talk’, so they can win them over, so they dont even realize whats going on, until its too late.

That is the best response yet, they’re all good and some are pretty funny too. But this is kind of what I’m getting at here, I don’t 100% accept what I’m fed by conspiracy theories, but there is evil in the world and sometimes as one user said it works in harmony with itself, so it gives off the illusion as if these people/groups/organisations ect are working together in harmony. Satan, the ultimate conspiracy theory, I believe conspiracy theorist have a keen sense to detect evil, but they don’t have a direct name or thing of what to call it because most of them don’t even believe in the devil. This is how I see conspiracy theories, there are truth in them but I personally believe they are also misled as I said before.

 

[Honorius]

Of course the Catholic Church is part of a New World Order conspiracy.

Why do you think Catholic children always wrote “JMJ” on their exercise books?

“Jews - Masons - Jesuits”.

But you’re forgetting to explain how the Illuminati, Bilderburg Group, the Lizard People, and the soon to be resurrected inquisition figure in to the New World Order.