Question on Dogmas

[fakename]

Some things that are infallibly defined by the Magisterium are also knowable by reason, like the existence of God. So are we supposed to both know and have faith in God’s existence? Or does it suffice to just know God exists? Or is it that knowledge implies faith? Does faith imply knowledge?

Thanks

 

[ahs]

I may be misunderstanding what you are asking, so if I fail to answer your concern, I apologize…perhaps someone else can shed more light on this.

Knowing something can require faith, but you can also know something because you simply know it, or have proof, which may not always require faith. In that instance, your knowledge may be the source of your faith. “I know, and so I believe.”

When you don’t “know” something (“know” in this instance being belief without a doubt, no uncertainty whatsoever), yet the Church Magesterium has proclaimed it as a Truth from God, you will need to excercise your faith as you strive for understanding so that you can then know. You have faith, and you work toward understanding so that you can know. “I believe (have faith) so I can know.”

Did I make it more confusing?

 

[fakename]

I may be misunderstanding what you are asking, so if I fail to answer your concern, I apologize…perhaps someone else can shed more light on this.

Knowing something can require faith, but you can also know something because you simply know it, or have proof, which may not always require faith. In that instance, your knowledge may be the source of your faith. “I know, and so I believe.”

When you don’t “know” something (“know” in this instance being belief without a doubt, no uncertainty whatsoever), yet the Church Magesterium has proclaimed it as a Truth from God, you will need to excercise your faith as you strive for understanding so that you can then know. You have faith, and you work toward understanding so that you can know. “I believe (have faith) so I can know.”

Did I make it more confusing?

I think you answered it, all knowledge implies belief (faith). So if you have proof of something you implicitly have faith in it.

 

[fred_conty]

Some things that are infallibly defined by the Magisterium are also knowable by reason, like the existence of God. So are we supposed to both know and have faith in God’s existence? Or does it suffice to just know God exists? Or is it that knowledge implies faith? Does faith imply knowledge?

Thanks

Knowledge is based on reason or faith. You can know something by reason and faith.
Jesus can be known historically, and also known thru our faith.

 

[yablabo]

Some things that are infallibly defined by the Magisterium are also knowable by reason, like the existence of God. So are we supposed to both know and have faith in God’s existence? Or does it suffice to just know God exists? Or is it that knowledge implies faith? Does faith imply knowledge?

Thanks

One has faith in articles of belief based upon the fact that they come from an authority (that is not meaning someone who calls himself expert, but a person who has an actual office in a hierarchy ultimately having God at its summit, e.g., from God to the Pope and Bishops to priests, from God to the Pope and sovereign princes to civic governors, from God to fathers and mothers). Faith is a virtue. It disposes a person to believe in an easy, pleasant and quick fashion the articles of belief which come from an authority. Natural faith is the faith that we have in those who have a natural authority over us, such as our fathers and mothers or our civic governors, priests and Bishops, etc. Supernatural faith is the faith that we have in God and the Church (the Church in specific capacities) and by which we believe what he reveals to us not by the natural light of reason, but because God in His authority has revealed it (Who can neither lie nor be deceived).

That being said, if you know something by the light of reason, you cannot any longer hold it by the supernatural virtue of faith. This doesn’t mean that you are necessarily doing something wrong knowing this article by the light of reason which is also revealed by God.

We would have faith in God’s existence if we came to believe in it by God’s direct revelation alone.

It is more meritorious to believe by faith than by the light of reason, but it is not sinful to believe by the light of reason.

Knowledge in general does not imply faith due to the hierarchy of truths. There are truths (i.e., articles which form our intellects upon what is real and true) which only come from sense knowledge (i.e., from the five senses; the color of a rose), or only come from second-hand knowledge (i.e., from credible and moral witnesses; the time of one’s birth), or only come from natural authorities (i.e., from the Ordinary Magisterium), or only come from supernatural authority (i.e., directly from God or through the divinely protected means which he left us on earth). Then, there is also the fact that one can hold error. This shows that knowledge in general does not imply faith, but only specific knowledge MAY imply faith.

Faith, of course, implies knowledge due to the fact that one could not have faith unless he had an article of belief to hold BY faith. A friend of mine contends that at the very least, in order to have faith personally, one must have the rule of true faith. I agree with that as well.

– Nicole