Question on Eastern Catholic Theology

[Peter_J]

If there is a differentiation between Eastern Catholics and Eastern Orthodox, then we should stop pretending we are “Orthodox in communion with Rome”

Question is, are you taking that phrase literally?

and we should stop telling Roman Catholics who are interested in Orthodoxy to “try Eastern Catholic parishes because they are the same thing.”

I agree that, if you’ve been saying that, you should stop.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Question is, are you taking that phrase literally?

Is there any other way to take it? We either are the same as the Orthodox or we are not.

I agree that, if you’ve been saying that, you should stop.

I have, and every time I see someone who makes this suggestion, it frustrates me. Especially that usually it is someone who is not Eastern Catholic who is making this suggestion. They know absolutely nothing about the Eastern Catholic Churches, yet they lead someone into it. Then they wonder later on why Latins who translate to Eastern Catholic Churches end up Orthodox.

If one is looking for Orthodoxy, one should go to an Orthodox Church. There is no ifs and buts there. They won’t find what they are looking for in an Eastern Catholic Church.

 

[Peter_J]

Is there any other way to take it?

Well consider this: if you call yourself “Orthodox in communion with Rome”, does it follow that when you speak of the Orthodox you need to qualify it as “the Orthodox not in communion with Rome”? If so, you’re definitely taking “Orthodox in communion with Rome” literally.

I’ve used this analogy before, but I hope no one will mind if I use it again … Suppose I like Paris so much that I call it “my home away from home”. Does that mean that I should start calling my regular home “my home not away from home”?

We either are the same as the Orthodox or we are not.

I have, and every time I see someone who makes this suggestion, it frustrates me. Especially that usually it is someone who is not Eastern Catholic who is making this suggestion. They know absolutely nothing about the Eastern Catholic Churches, yet they lead someone into it. Then they wonder later on why Latins who translate to Eastern Catholic Churches end up Orthodox.

If one is looking for Orthodoxy, one should go to an Orthodox Church. There is no ifs and buts there. They won’t find what they are looking for in an Eastern Catholic Church.

But it *could *happen that someone thinks he/she is looking for Orthodoxy, but is really looking for Eastern Catholicism.

 

[ConstantineTG]

But it *could *happen that someone thinks he/she is looking for Orthodoxy, but is really looking for Eastern Catholicism.

Then there is no harm to send them to an Orthodox Church as they will not find what they are looking for there.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

Then there is no harm to send them to an Orthodox Church as they will not find what they are looking for there.

Out of genuine curiosity, and I realize this may be a hypothetical, do you think you might have travelled the path to Orthodoxy directly had you not found a home first with the UGCC?

 

[Vico]

…
But it could happen that someone thinks he/she is looking for Orthodoxy, but is really looking for Eastern Catholicism.

And a Catholic must recommend the fullness of faith. Catholics should avoid indifferentism and proselytism so cannot in good conscience, per the instuctions of the Magisterium, recommend other non-Catholic religions. It is both indifferentism and proselytism to recommend that a Catholic change religions (such as to become Orthodox).
Catechism of the Catholic Church has:

904 "Christ . . . fulfills this prophetic office, not only by the hierarchy . . . but also by the laity. He accordingly both establishes them as witnesses and provides them with the sense of the faith [sensus fidei] and the grace of the word"438

To teach in order to lead others to faith is the task of every preacher and of each believer.439

905 Lay people also fulfill their prophetic mission by evangelization, “that is, the proclamation of Christ by word and the testimony of life.” For lay people, "this evangelization . . . acquires a specific property and peculiar efficacy because it is accomplished in the ordinary circumstances of the world."440

This witness of life, however, is not the sole element in the apostolate; the true apostle is on the lookout for occasions of announcing Christ by word, either to unbelievers . . . or to the faithful.441

 

[ConstantineTG]

Out of genuine curiosity, and I realize this may be a hypothetical, do you think you might have travelled the path to Orthodoxy directly had you not found a home first with the UGCC?

I was always curious about Orthodoxy even from the time I hardly knew anything about them. Had I known there was an Orthodox Church in the Philippines before I left, I would have gone there. I probably would have converted then.

 

[mardukm]

Out of genuine curiosity, and I realize this may be a hypothetical, do you think you might have travelled the path to Orthodoxy directly had you not found a home first with the UGCC?

That’s a great point, brother ByzCathCantor. Whatever else may be said, the Eastern Catholic Churches present a rather comprehensive introduction to EO’xy.

The fact is, a lot of people want to have the fruits of the East WITHOUT having to leave communion with the bishop of Rome. And they really can get that in the Eastern Catholic Churches (sans the Latinizations ).

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[mardukm]

Well consider this: if you call yourself “Orthodox in communion with Rome”, does it follow that when you speak of the Orthodox you need to qualify it as “the Orthodox not in communion with Rome”? If so, you’re definitely taking “Orthodox in communion with Rome” literally.

I’ve actually used that term “Orthodox not in communion with Rome” here in CAF, but it was always in the context of a discussion on a particular point wherein some EO believed there was a dramatic contrast with the Latins, but there was evidence in the patristic era of either (1) the Easterns holding to the same belief or praxis, or (2) the Latins holding to the same belief or praxis but it did not break communion. In the context of matters that have developed in each Church after the first millenium, I am careful to distinguish between Orthodox and Catholics, or the Oriental, Eastern, and Latin Traditions.

But it *could *happen that someone thinks he/she is looking for Orthodoxy, but is really looking for Eastern Catholicism.

Indeed. There are several Latins who have come here to the ECF in the past who have expressed interest in the Eastern Traditions, but at the same time, leaving communion with the bishops of Rome was not an option conceiveable to them.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[Jerry-Jet]

I’m a convert from Protestantism to Roman Catholicism on Easter 2011.

Nowadays I go to confession most every Saturday at a Maronite Catholic Church–do my penance there–and then receive communion there by intinction.

I really love my Maronite confessor and other Maronite lay people there and the Maronite deacon.

I love learning Maronite hymns that I do not know.

Am I Roman Catholic in communion with Lebanon?

I would be honored if my Maronite brothers and sisters would consider me as such.

 

[lssanjose]

I’m a convert from Protestantism to Roman Catholicism on Easter 2011.

Nowadays I go to confession most every Saturday at a Maronite Catholic Church–do my penance there–and then receive communion there by intinction.

I really love my Maronite confessor and other Maronite lay people there and the Maronite deacon.

I love learning Maronite hymns that I do not know.

Am I Roman Catholic in communion with Lebanon?

I would be honored if my Maronite brothers and sisters would consider me as such.

Maronites never seceded from Rome. Eastern Catholics were from Orthodoxy, who at first, split from Rome officially in 1054. In the 1500s, some of these churches within Orthodoxy saw the desire, or need, for communion with Rome.

 

[Jerry-Jet]

I like Lebanon–is that OK?

 

[lssanjose]

Liking Lebanon is fine

 

[tdgesq]

Interestingly enough, there is relatively little dogmatic theology out there on the final things (heaven, hell, purgatory) in the Latin Church. Even more so for ECs. You will find a plurality of opinions from the Orthodox on these matters. The bottom line is you really have to be trying hard to find any true conflict between Eastern and Western Catholics on purgatory. In my opinion, this is also the case between most Orthodox formulations and Catholic dogma.