Question on gift giving to homosexual couples

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From the Catholic Catechism:
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

Homosexuality is no different than any other sin. Do you call out everyone’s sin? Ask yourself why are you so concerned about homosexuality or others sin than your own.

A Woman Caught in Adultery. [*]
John 8

1 And Jesus went unto mount Olivet.

2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple: and all the people came to him. And sitting down he taught them.

3 And the scribes and Pharisees bring unto him a woman taken in adultery: and they set her in the midst,

4 And said to him: Master, this woman was even now taken in adultery.

5 Now Moses in the law commanded us to stone such a one. But what sayest thou?

6 And this they said tempting him, that they might accuse him. But Jesus bowing himself down, wrote with his finger on the ground.

7 When therefore they continued asking him, he lifted up himself and said to them: He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

8 And again stooping down, he wrote on the ground.

9 But they hearing this, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest. And Jesus alone remained, and the woman standing in the midst.

10 Then Jesus lifting up himself, said to her: Woman, where are they that accused thee? Hath no man condemned thee?

11 Who said: No man, Lord. And Jesus said: Neither will I condemn thee. Go, and now sin no more
 
Tony5522 said:
From the Catholic Catechism:
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

Homosexuality is no different than any other sin. Do you call out everyone’s sin? Ask yourself why are you so concerned about homosexuality or others sin than your own.

A Woman Caught in Adultery. [*]
John 8

1 And Jesus went unto mount Olivet.

2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple: and all the people came to him. And sitting down he taught them.

3 And the scribes and Pharisees bring unto him a woman taken in adultery: and they set her in the midst,

4 And said to him: Master, this woman was even now taken in adultery.

5 Now Moses in the law commanded us to stone such a one. But what sayest thou?

6 And this they said tempting him, that they might accuse him. But Jesus bowing himself down, wrote with his finger on the ground.

7 When therefore they continued asking him, he lifted up himself and said to them: He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

8 And again stooping down, he wrote on the ground.

9 But they hearing this, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest. And Jesus alone remained, and the woman standing in the midst.

10 Then Jesus lifting up himself, said to her: Woman, where are they that accused thee? Hath no man condemned thee?

11 Who said: No man, Lord. And Jesus said: Neither will I condemn thee. Go, and now sin no more
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Who are you responding to?
 
The short answer? Yes. Acknowledge your own sins, so that you CAN help others in theirs. If no one ever tells them they’re doing wrong, how will they ever know? Also, homosexuality is one of the sins that cries out to Heaven for justice. So yes, there are different degrees of sin (though every sin is bad) but some are WORSE than others.
 
When you sell something, you are not responsible for how the person who buys it chooses to use it. You are not responsible for finding out how they will use it and in nearly every case, it would be impossible to do so and in very poor taste to attempt to. If someone asked you to personalize something in a way that is distasteful, then you would be fine to refuse to do so, but if were talking bathrobes with petnames on them, I have no idea how you would be able to guess this with any accuracy. So no, I don’t think you should be worried about this. If you are in a position to speak to someone about homosexuality in a charitable and effective way, then do so. But you are not expected to grill the intentions of every customer, nor could you without being incredibly offensive to many innocent people.
 
roamingitalian said:
But since we’re divided, here’s my outlook: True charity is letting the person know that they’re in very, very grave sin. True charity is calling the person out in order TO save them from eternal damnation
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This is the motivation behind 90 percent of the threads on this forum about gay people.
Here are my thoughts:
  1. You are unlikely to make them think twice about their action by “calling them out”. More likely they’ll just decide Catholics are bigots who don’t like them. You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, try being kind instead.
  2. Unless the person is your close friend and family member, you don’t know all the details of their situation, so best to not assume and also best to not go minding the business of relative strangers. The potential for misunderstanding is great and again, if this isn’t your close friend or family member, you’re crossing personal boundaries.
  3. Furthermore, unless you are also going to “call out” all heterosexual couples who might be committing a sin of fornication, adultery, or other hetero impurity, you’re being a huge hypocrite. When a woman buys a man’s bathrobe and has it embroidered “Darling”, do you quiz her on whether it’s for her husband or her male lover? Do you ask if it’s her first husband or second husband and was she divorced and remarried? Etc
  4. Finally, you might remember the Bible verse about the speck in your brother’s eye vs the plank in your own.
One reason I’ve always been happy to be a Catholic is that we are generally taught to respond to people with love and not judge, unlike some of the Protestant churches I’ve encountered (not all, but some) where the focus was on pointing out everybody’s sins all the time and telling them they were going to Hell if they didn’t shape up.

As a fellow Catholic, if I heard someone “calling out” a gay person, or someone they just suspected was gay, I’d be tempted to step in, say I’m a Catholic too, apologize on behalf of my fellow Catholic, and tell them we aren’t all judgmental like that.

Just my 2 cents.
 
I agree that to call someone out in their sin in an aggressive, angry manner is not the way to go about it, but I do believe that doing so gently can help them open their eyes to their error. If I was doing something wrong, I’d want someone telling me so. And actions do speak louder than words, which is why, refusing to provide a service (like gay robes, or baking a wedding cake) could make them see their sin, and maybe it won’t make them change, but then again, it just MIGHT. My motto is “lead by example”. Usually, you don’t have to say a word for others to understand where you’re coming from.
 
How far are you willing to take this sense of “looking out” for others? Would you be open to the checker at the grocery store scrutinizing your purchases and telling you that you shouldn’t be eating so much junk food? And would that get you to change your eating habits? Or just change grocery stores to one that will sell you the products they claim to sell?
 
Come, come. Let’s not be ridiculous. My discussion is on MORTAL sin. Sin that destroys all grace in your soul, not venial.
 
Remember, there are three requirements for mortal sin. Do you screen your customers for all three of them?
 
Ok, suppose the checker saw you buying 6 bottles of wine and asked you if you were having a party or did you have an alcohol problem, and did anyone in your family have an alcohol problem? Alcohol abuse can certainly be grave matter.

How about if you were working as a checker at the drugstore and a guy came to the register with a few packs of condoms? If he’s fornicating with those, it’s grave matter. If he’s using them at home with his wife, it’s also grave matter. Would you refuse to sell those to him?
 
Objectively speaking, you can judge if someone is commiting a mortal sin in action. Whether they’re aware of the severity of their actions is another thing. I’m not saying they are commiting a mortal sin intentionally, especially if the 3 above steps are not all present, but, again, if you never tell them otherwise, how will they ever know and by the Grace of God, come to Him. We are suppose to be disciples of Christ. Somehow, I don’t think any of the great saints would’ve just stood back and done/said nothing. Padre Pio is an excellent example.
 
Did Padre Pio or others instruct people who were looking for advice, or go up to people who were minding their own business, just buying a Christmas gift, for example, and start telling them that they’re committing sins and should repent?
 
Padre Pio was a saintly priest. He could read hearts. He was also generally dealing with people who’d come to see him for confession, help, advice or out of curiosity. In other words they had come to him looking for help. He didn’t just go out and meet people at random and start lecturing them.

It’s a priest’s job to give spiritual counsel to people. Moreover, because of Padre Pio’s charism, he had a much better knowledge of a person’s spiritual state than those of us who judge from the outside, and therefore it was highly unlikely he would misunderstand a situation. The Lord probably also gave him some guidance on what he should say and how firm he should be. In some instances he was very kind. He was also a holier person than the vast, vast majority of people who have ever lived, certainly holier than either you or me.

I think it’s prideful for us to equate ourselves to Padre Pio.

Anyway, I’m going to mute this now as I think I have contributed enough and I doubt I will change your mind. It seems that you aren’t really open to discussing how your approach might not be the best one; rather, you seem quite convinced it’s the way to go, and are looking for people to affirm your view. I’m sure you will find some on this forum, but I do not agree.
God bless.
 
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Fair enough. You’re not seeing my point of view, and I’m not seeing yours.
God bless!
 
roamingitalian said:
And I agree with not providing robes to adulterous heterosexual couples as well. Again, if I know beyond doubt, I would refrain from going through with the transaction.
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In my country this would be a criminal act for a merchant.
 
I would not give robes or anything of that nature to someone who isn’t a family member, regardless of the person’s sexual preference.
 
So let me get this straight (so I’m on the same page as your thinking). If you saw someone about to commit murder, steal a car, sexually assault someone. Hurt someone in general - would you stand by and do nothing? The same goes for any other sin. It LITERALLY HURTS our Lord! He DID NOT die on the cross so that we could just keep sinning and allowing others to sin. If you saw two men or women kissing each other in a way that only lovers do, I’m pretty sure it is safe to say they are commiting a very grave and offenses act towards Jesus. Don’t you see? God said to take the beam out of your own eye FIRST so that you can remove the speck out of your brother’s. He didn’t say to allow them to continue in their sin without at least attempting to help them. He also said if you see your brother doing wrong, correct him. If that doesn’t work, get other friends involved. If that doesn’t work, go to the Church and ask her to step in. We are suppose to spread God’s Word, and in order to to that, you HAVE to speak up or lead by example - be a sign of contradiction. Otherwise, we’re back to fence sitters and the lukewarm. And I don’t mean to attack or judge anyone on this forum. I’m merely trying to make God proud, so that one day when I have to look Him in the eye, I don’t have to shamefully explain to Him why I wouldn’t stand up for Him. I’m just disheartened so few actually agree with me.
 
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