Question on homesexuality

[Azazelle]

A 1996 article published by the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality, an organization committed to the treatment of homosexuality, musters the arguments against interpretation of animal behavior as sanctioning homosexuality.[4] It notes that “homosexual scientist Simon LeVay” stated that the evidence pointed to isolated acts, not to homosexuality:

Let me take a wild guess: that’s a catholic or at least very, very Christian organization. The ‘treatment’ of homosexuality? Come on, people don’t even know what causes it in the first place, how the hell would you cure it? by showing homosexuals pictures/porn? electroshocks? force them to have sex with the other gender?

Seriously, this organizations sounds like a cheap try to make prejudice ‘scientific’. Just like all those ‘scientific research’ Creationism tried to come up with.

 

[Polaris]

Let me take a wild guess: that’s a catholic or at least very, very Christian organization. The ‘treatment’ of homosexuality? Come on, people don’t even know what causes it in the first place, how the hell would you cure it? by showing homosexuals pictures/porn? electroshocks? force them to have sex with the other gender?

Seriously, this organizations sounds like a cheap try to make prejudice ‘scientific’. Just like all those ‘scientific research’ Creationism tried to come up with.

And you would be absolutely right. I have to say is was actually organizations like Narth and Exodus that convinced me that Homosexuality is a perfectly natural variation in humans. I once used them as a source, like many here than I reviewed them. The amount of poor science they have done is shocking, I seriously sometimes wonder if they even know what a simple p-value means and God they truly have no concept of a representative sample. As for even the meaning of peer reviewed, again an epic fail. Then you have the distortions of good science, so much there are websites where the original investigators explaining how the assumption they made are completely nonsensicle from what they studied. Then the plain outright lies this organization promote will knock you dead. When an organization does this its clear, that it is based purely on prejudice. Really nothing gets me so mad as baseless prejudiced opinion trying to act like Science.

 

[Corki]

The ‘treatment’ of homosexuality? Come on, people don’t even know what causes it in the first place, how the hell would you cure it?

I am not making any judgements about the effectiveness of therapy as recommended by NARTH. But be very careful about statements such as these. There are many disorders, physical, mental and emotional, for which the cause is not known. It is inhumane to say that until the cause of something is determined, we should not try to treat a disorder. Doctors have been treating cancer for decades and many people have been cured without an understanding of the cause of the cancer.

If you don’t see your homosexuality as a disorder, you would not seek treatment. But many people with SSA would dearly love to find an effective treatment. Treatment, even if success rates are low should not be distained just because a segment of those affected don’t want it.

 

[Azazelle]

And you would be absolutely right. I have to say is was actually organizations like Narth and Exodus that convinced me that Homosexuality is a perfectly natural variation in humans. I once used them as a source, like many here than I reviewed them. The amount of poor science they have done is shocking, I seriously sometimes wonder if they even know what a simple p-value means and God they truly have no concept of a representative sample. As for even the meaning of peer reviewed, again an epic fail. Then you have the distortions of good science, so much there are websites where the original investigators explaining how the assumption they made are completely nonsensicle from what they studied. Then the plain outright lies this organization promote will knock you dead. When an organization does this its clear, that it is based purely on prejudice. Really nothing gets me so mad as baseless prejudiced opinion trying to act like Science.

Thank God, I already feared that I was the only one how noticed how biased those ‘facts’ are. good to know I’m not alone out there^^

 

[CarlaOLS]

How sad so few understand the contributing factors to same sax attraction disorder - ( yes it is disordered and yes it can be helped.)

PLEASEcheck out this page, as a starting point to educating yourself honestly on the subject of homosexuality.

sorrowfulhearts.com/same-sex_attraction_education.html

IF YOU ARE CATHOLIC YOU HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO ALIGN YOUR UNDERSTANDING WITH THAT OF THE CHURCH. Furthermore just telling SSA sufferers to remain chaste with no other illumination as to why they have the attraction and what can be done to lessen and even eliminate it is cruel.

The testimonies of ex-gays are the most powerful testament to God’s plan, to His Glory and Mercy. They clearly prove that SSA is more about healing emotional wounds and becoming whole in Christ, and has nothing to do with any natural or inborn inclination.

Join me in saying the St. Michael prayer for those suffering SSA. It takes only 15 seconds to say.
Once a day for SSA!

 

[CarlaOLS]

*St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle. Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray. Do thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host, by the power of God, thrust into hell Satan and all evil spirits who prowl about the world seeking the ruin of souls. Amen. *

You can get a St. Michael magnet for free for your refrigerator to remind you to say the prayer every day. Just write to:
Sorrowful Hearts for SSA,
Box 201
Johnson City NY 13790

They will send you one free.

 

[LittleBits]

Homosexuality is NOT a sin. Gay people did NOT choose to be gay. I am gay, and I am Catholic. I did NOT choose to be gay anymore than any of you chose to be straight, or any of us chose our gender. My love is just as valid and good as anyone else’s. I should be able to express my love physically to the one person I am committed to as well. Lour love can’t produce offsrping (neither can sex between an infertile couple), but it definitely can be an expression of love…

 

[onmyknees]

Homosexuality is NOT a sin. Gay people did NOT choose to be gay. I am gay, and I am Catholic. I did NOT choose to be gay anymore than any of you chose to be straight, or any of us chose our gender. My love is just as valid and good as anyone else’s. I should be able to express my love physically to the one person I am committed to as well. Lour love can’t produce offsrping (neither can sex between an infertile couple), but it definitely can be an expression of love…

Hi Little Bits,

The CatholicChurch teaches that we should love everyone but hate the sin and the homosexual acts are sinful. The Church teaches this. My son is SSA and we are very close and I have told him that I love him unconditionally but I cannot approve of the practice of homosexual sex. Like you said it is not procreative. The marital act between infertile couples is still open to life and is a natural act. The old as well as the new testament teaches that this is a sin.

"Romans
Chapter 1

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel. It is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: for Jew first, and then Greek.
17 For in it is revealed the righteousness of God from faith to faith; as it is written, “The one who is righteous by faith will live.”
18 The wrath of God is indeed being revealed from heaven against every impiety and wickedness of those who suppress the truth by their wickedness.
19 For what can be known about God is evident to them, because God made it evident to them.
20 Ever since the creation of the world, his invisible attributes of eternal power and divinity have been able to be understood and perceived in what he has made. As a result, they have no excuse;
21 for although they knew God they did not accord him glory as God or give him thanks. Instead, they became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless minds were darkened.
22 While claiming to be wise, they became fools
23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for the likeness of an image of mortal man or of birds or of four-legged animals or of snakes.
24 Therefore, God handed them over to impurity through the lusts of their hearts for the mutual degradation of their bodies.
25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and revered and worshiped the creature rather than the creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural,
27 and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity.
28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God handed them over to their undiscerning mind to do what is improper.
29 They are filled with every form of wickedness, evil, greed, and malice; full of envy, murder, rivalry, treachery, and spite. They are gossips
30 and scandalmongers and they hate God. They are insolent, haughty, boastful, ingenious in their wickedness, and rebellious toward their parents.
31 They are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless.
32 Although they know the just decree of God that all who practice such things deserve death, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them. "
__
I know of many SSA people who have chosen to join “courage” a Catholic group to support them in living chaste lives and they have been successful! Single Catholics also are called to live in chastity.

---

 

[ipwnuathalo]

Wow, a lot of misconceptions in this thread.

Little bits wrote:

Homosexuality is NOT a sin.

There are two potential authorities who might make a pronouncement on this matter, God Himself, or The Church. There really aren’t any other possible authorities who might make this decision. So, you posting that sentence means nothing, you are not either one of those authorities.

Gay people did NOT choose to be gay.

Yeah, so? Sinners, in general, do not choose to be sinners. They are born sinners and this colors their entire life. That’s what happened to me, to you, and to everyone. You have a particular temptation that I don’t, I’m sure I have some that you don’t. SO? What of it? Being born having a pre-disposition to some particular temptation has nothing to do with that action being a sin or not. What makes you think that it does?

I am gay, and I am Catholic. I did NOT choose to be gay anymore than any of you chose to be straight, or any of us chose our gender.

Again, so? I didn’t choose any of my temptations, either, but it does me no good to pick one of them and say “I did not choose to be a liar, I was born this way, so it is not a sin”. Fact is, you can make it through one day without committing a homosexual act, and I can make it through one day without lying, and this is what the Church calls us both to do, every day.

My love is just as valid and good as anyone else’s.

Radcial misunderstanding of “love”. I’m married. I might, as part of a mid-life crisis “fall in love” with some other woman and I might have very, very strong emotional feelings for her. Does not in the least affect the sinfulness of having sex with this new girl. Feelings don’t make something sinful into something right. Deny this, and you have denied Catholicism.

I should be able to express my love physically to the one person I am committed to as well.

Translation “I want to!”. I hear you. I want to do lots of things I’m not allowed to do. It’s my decision to do the hard work of being Catholic, or not. If I want to be Catholic, every day I have to do the hard work of denying myself some things I want very badly on the basis that these things are sinful. No one is forcing me to do this, it’s totally up to me.

Lour love can’t produce offsrping (neither can sex between an infertile couple), but it definitely can be an expression of love…

Yeah, so?

It’s really simple. You have a choice to be Catholic or not. It’s totally up to you. Nobody in the world will force you to. Being Catholic means agreeing with the Church about its moral code, and living according to this code. If you don’t want to do that, then at least be minimally honest and don’t call yourself “Catholic”.

Also, you may consider that there are other people who have worse temptations than you do. I have heard just about every behavior rationalized. It’s always the same. People want to bend reality to fit their particular desires. Why bother to bend reality? Either be Catholic, or don’t.

 

[joannazenobia]

I was going to say the same thing (from pp). That being Catholic means you accept all its teachings or none of it.

For example, my husband and I are working to have a Catholic Marriage sacrament, since we were married in a Protestant church. Until then, I asked my non-practicing husband for us to remain chaste until then and I feel that chastity has deepend our love more so, but mostly because I do not want to offend God more than I already have and until we are properly married, I cannot observe Confession or the Eucharist (that is my punishment).

To follow the Catholic teachings is to love God as I would obey my parent’s rules in their home even though i may not agree or understand their intentions because God is for more wiser and sees things much more clearly then we do.

Bottom line is…to me, premarital sex is wrong wether you are homosexual or heterosexual and homosexual acts are not just limited to homosexuals, but they are as equally grave for heterosexuals.

 

[CarlaOLS]

NOONE CHOOSES TO BE ATTRACTED TO THE SAME SEX!
This is so true and painful. A better understanding of the causes and development of homosexual desires in persons is needed to bring a more compassionate response to our brothers and sisiters in Christ who live with SSA (same sex attraction.) This same understanding can help those who suffer unwanted SSA as well. THERE IS HOPE.

Please visit: SSA HOPE.COM

Little Bits, I beg you to investigate the entire site - you didn’t choose your condition, but it is just that, and your true happiness lies in healing and wholeness. Do not trust your own feelings and desires. Such has always betrayed mankind. Humbly seek to align yourself with God’s will and have courage. God has great plans for you and through you for those your love and touch. Every ex-gay friend I know and every SSA conversion testimony I read bears this out.

God bless you and if you want prayers - PM me and I will add you to a special prayer list for those with SSA.

Peace in Jesus,
Carla

 

[Lynxdk]

Wow, a lot of misconceptions in this thread.

Yeah, and some of the worst ones are yours. Being a Catholic takes time. You’re telling people that are trying to be Catholic that they have to accept it and be it, as if that happens all at once, and if they don’t like it they should just leave. You have ~no~ idea where they are on their own path to Christ, but instead of trying to find a way to help them and guide them, you would tell them to give up and go elsewhere.

 

[Ne_OrangeKnight]

until we are properly married, I cannot observe Confession or the Eucharist (that is my punishment).

As long as you are living chastely (I assume that you were Catholic at the time of your Protestant marriage?), you are completely aloud to go to Confession, and then receive the Eucharist. In fact, you should never deny yourself the sacramant of Penance, no matter how grave your sins. The graver they are, the sooner you should go!

Sam, the Neon Orange Knight

 

[ipwnuathalo]

pfft, whatever. No one with those misconceptions is going to make any progress, they have to at least be pointed in the right direction first. SO many people here are just wishing and hoping that somehow they can figure out a way to have gay sex and still be somehow Catholic. I’m pointing out that this is not even a rational desire in the first place. No one, nobody, nowhere, no how gets to pick and choose what is and what is not sinful. This is 1st day of RCIA stuff.

Quit being so worried that someone is going to cry, and get with the program. Man up, for goodness sake. Gay people can be just as resolved and courageous as any other people, and they don’t need any more sugar-coating on the truth than anyone else.

---

Little Bits:

Stop sending me private messages and keep the discussion in this thread. All you did was repeat all of your same wrong-headed notions anyway. Apparently you are not willing to engage actual Catholicism and prefer your private, virtual reality in which the Catholic Church does not consider homosexual sex a sin.

If you prefer a private world in which you get to decide what is and what is not a sin, so be it, but at least have the minimal decency and consistency not to attach the word “Catholic” to it.

I think the root of the debate between you and I is that you haven’t defined what it means to be “Catholic” with any adherence to reality. You want two exceptions made for yourself, apparently, 1.you don’t want to believe the scriptures are inspired and 2.you want homosexuality not to be a sin. Sorry, those exceptions don’t exist. You can choose not to believe, but in doing so, you cut yourself off from being Catholic as you go forward. You can repent at some point, but that repentance will have to include professing that you believe what the Church teaches on these foundational issues.

---

Also, you repeated your objection that an infertile couple and a homosexual couple are analgous and this was somehow proof of your position. There’s only one thing to know about that: the Church says you are wrong. Therefore, it really, really doesn’t matter if you think that is a cool argument. It’s not Catholic.

Now, if you have something sensical to respond given the actual teaching of the Church as opposed to your fairy-tale version, I’ll be glad to discuss.

 

[Lynxdk]

pfft, whatever.

Quit being so worried that someone is going to cry, and get with the program. Man up, for goodness sake.

Some people have a longer, and different, road to follow to get to Christ than others. Throwing stones doesn’t help them.

 

[camerong]

Some people have a longer, and different, road to follow to get to Christ than others. Throwing stones doesn’t help them.

There is a difference between walking on the road to Christ with a long way to go, and taking an expressway to sin and the devil while claiming it to be the road to Christ. If this chap had said “I’m a homosexual Catholic, and I’m trying not to have homosexual sex but keep finding myself doing it,” the response would be different. That person would be on the road to Christ, as far as Catholics see it. That is not the case here.

 

[ipwnuathalo]

Exactly.

 

[Lynxdk]

There is a difference between walking on the road to Christ with a long way to go, and taking an expressway to sin and the devil while claiming it to be the road to Christ. If this chap had said “I’m a homosexual Catholic, and I’m trying not to have homosexual sex but keep finding myself doing it,” the response would be different. That person would be on the road to Christ, as far as Catholics see it. That is not the case here.

I wasn’t referring to Little Bits.

 

[Lynxdk]

Exactly.

If you were actually interested in helping people you might consider exploring narth.com/ to gain a better understanding of the situation from the point of view you claim, and follow Carla’s lead. She, at least, has a great deal of compassion and understanding about the subject and is trying to help people without pushing them away.

 

[ipwnuathalo]

What a load.

What a lot of people appear to do on this forum would, in another context, be called “enabling”. I’m not an enabler, and I’ll be very glad to fight you fiercely on that point. It’s apparently the MO of the liberals around here to tear down anyone who succinctly answers questions with the teaching of the Church. You won’t get me to back down.