Question on Homosexuality

[Mirdath]

Mird, don’t you read my posts? Of course I make this distinction. Usually when word wrestling with beloved goofyjim, who, apparently like you, doesn’t understand that I am not equating disordered inclinations with sinful behaviors. I am pretty sure that my compulsion to drink to unconsciousness is, while VERY disordered, not sinful. However, getting hammered certainly is.

What I don’t understand is why you’re wrestling with Jim, because as far as the Church is concerned, he’s correct! That inclination is his cross to bear, just as your alcoholic tendency is yours – and just as my various delinquencies, deviancies, and decadencies are all supposed to be mine

The Church doesn’t say you have to get straight to ‘overcome’ one’s attractions; just like a single heterosexual, you only have to remain chaste – just as an alcoholic only has to stay sober. If one doesn’t give in to that tendency, one isn’t doing any wrong.

I would never call you ignorant. I do believe you are book smart (sometimes) when it comes to the faith. But you are not heart smart. Somehow, your heart has been hardened (for now) to the truth. Which is why I am still happy always to see you here. And why I still pray for you!

I don’t have faith. Uh, sorry, I guess? I just don’t swing that way! It’s fine if you do and all, that’s great, but not everybody does

 

[blessedtoo]

The Church doesn’t say you have to get straight to ‘overcome’ one’s attractions; just like a single heterosexual, you only have to remain chaste – just as an alcoholic only has to stay sober. If one doesn’t give in to that tendency, one isn’t doing any wrong.

One more time. I have never asserted that one must change one’s orientation. Never. I have never said that the orientation itself is a sin. Never ever. I have said that the Church teaches that homosexual inclinations are “intrinsically disordered.” Some folks refuse to accept that the inclination is disordered. Take me, for example. Let’s say I don’t accept my inclination to drink to unconsciousness is disordered. Ain’t nothing wrong with it. It’s just okey dokey to obsess about alcohol, to dream about alcohol, to yearn for alcohol, to structure my life around alcohol. All that is just fine. What would ever stop me from drinking if I believed that? And even if I did succeed in putting down the drink, what would keep me stopped? The first step in overcoming any sinful behavior is to accept that one is inclined to it and that the inclination itself is a problem. You CAN’T CHANGE the inclincation. I can’t lobotomize the alcohol lovin’ part of my brain, but I must accept that it is disordered if I expect the behavior to change.

I don’t have faith. Uh, sorry, I guess? I just don’t swing that way! It’s fine if you do and all, that’s great, but not everybody does

Hence, the prayers.

 

[LBJ]

Urban myth. Pre Vat2 Catholic here. Catholic Grammar and High School. Two sisters, both attended all Catholic Schools, pre Vat 2. Never, never did such a thing occur. Absurd.

Ignorant statement. Ridiculous.

Perhaps your school was more progressive in the Vat2 direction.

The Catholic Church was not responsible for Salem. Do some research.
I didn’t see anyone level such a charge here.

I never said the Church was. However, it’s a comparison to the beleif on left-handedness.

Or abortion, or pedophilia, or incest or many other things.

Why don’t you do a search on the threads as a research project. There are probably 1000 threads on masturbation, fornication, and receiving the Eucharist unworthily.

Anyway, I got carried away and went into an area that was mostly off the topic. Please forgive me. Peace.

Where did Paul say that in the Bible? What would you tell Paul to enlighten him? This?

you can see it in first commandment;of anything…heaven above or in the earth beneath…in the water under the earth. The earth was flat, they believed, and was suspended on water beneith it. The sky above the clouds was dome, above where, God and the Angelic beings habitated. This remained belief true unitl, I think, a few centuries before Columbus. Correct me if I’m wrong.

That’s interesting. Both of your posts are full of ignorance of the Catholic Church. Absolutely chock full of myth and propaganda. Such as:

Is that a headline you read in some newspaper? Perhaps before you make a completely false statement like this you might actually read what the Pope said. You won’t look so silly.

The New York Post 7/26/07.
For a Theologian it’s a confirmation. That dosn’t mean there is no creator, just no real first couple.

How would you know? There is no reasoning involved when you are basing your conclusions on falsehood.
I disagree. The more educated you THINK you are, the farther from the truth you get.

In order to claim something a falehood, you have to have evidence to the contrary. The truth is that we are only one percent geneticly different from Chimps, with testoserone. Religion must, and tries to, help us overcome our primitive instincs. The problem is our still unresolved tribalism, which sin acts on, and manifests in war, hatrid, opression, and murder; ask Jesus, as well as nationalism, and religious surpremiscim.

 

[goofyjim]

I, for one, will go down in defiance of the idea that the attrraction is a disorder. I don’t care anymore. This has caused too much irreparable harm to those who never even acted on the attraction. Throwing around words like disorder cause someone to feel unwanted and attempt suicide. I’ve seen it far too often. It’s got to stop. A harmless attraction if not acted upon should be left alone.

 

[brotherjoe]

I, for one, will go down in defiance of the idea that the attrraction is a disorder. I don’t care anymore. This has caused too much irreparable harm to those who never even acted on the attraction. Throwing around words like disorder cause someone to feel unwanted and attempt suicide. I’ve seen it far too often. It’s got to stop. A harmless attraction if not acted upon should be left alone.

Jim:

If anything, I would expect it to be the other way around. Surely the presence of a disorder will inspire more compassion and sympathy than rejection on the part of true Christians. When I told my believing friends about my SSA, they spent more time with me rather than next, they took time to pray with me and encourage me, they eagerly took it upon themselves to provide me with the support and wholesome affection that made it possible for me to move beyond…or was that just a dream(?).

 

[Abira]

I, for one, will go down in defiance of the idea that the attrraction is a disorder. I don’t care anymore. This has caused too much irreparable harm to those who never even acted on the attraction. Throwing around words like disorder cause someone to feel unwanted and attempt suicide. I’ve seen it far too often. It’s got to stop. A harmless attraction if not acted upon should be left alone.

I’m with goofyjim…I didn’t even reply to this thread as I was too upset by the last one with OtherEric or whoever it was that upset me,

I see that we are all called to carry our crosses, not discard them. An inclination that is not acted upon is not sinful… just keep it plain and simple and avoid all the bad feeling that the word ‘disorder’ brings into these talks again and again!

To a certain extent it does not even matter what you define as a disorder… it matters that the people that this inclination effects are hurt by this word… please remember that the church teaches you to accept those with SSA with: accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity.

It’s not sensitive to constantly be nagging about a cross they have to bear when they are celibate… this inclination, more than any other (drinkng, violence, lying etc) is addressed and debated over and does no good to either party, it just hurts their feelings.

 

[Julian_Peters]

Thank you to all who have participated. This thread is now closed.