Question on Islam -- round 5

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I got another question too why did Mohammed say that if raise your head before the imam you will get transformed into a donkey?

Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 11, Number 660:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, “Isn’t he who raises his head before the Imam afraid that Allah may transform his head into that of a donkey or his figure (face) into that of a donkey?”

Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 11, Number 685:
Narrated An-Nu’man bin 'Bashir:
The Prophet said, “Straighten your rows or Allah will alter your faces.”

Also why did he say if you pray looking up Allah will snatch out your eyes?

Sahih Muslim Book 004, Number 0863:
Abu Huraira reported: People should avoid lifting their eyes towards the sky while supplicating in prayer, otherwise their eyes would be snatched away.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 12, Number 717:
Narrated Anas bin Malik:
The Prophet said, “What is wrong with those people who look towards the sky during the prayer?” His talk grew stern while delivering this speech and he said, “They should stop (looking towards the sky during the prayer); otherwise their eye-sight would be taken
away.”

thanks hopefully somebody will be able to answer this 😃
 
DeusVult09 said:
I got another question too why did Mohammed say that if raise your head before the imam you will get transformed into a donkey?

Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 11, Number 660:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, “Isn’t he who raises his head before the Imam afraid that Allah may transform his head into that of a donkey or his figure (face) into that of a donkey?”

Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 11, Number 685:
Narrated An-Nu’man bin 'Bashir:
The Prophet said, “Straighten your rows or Allah will alter your faces.”

Also why did he say if you pray looking up Allah will snatch out your eyes?

Sahih Muslim Book 004, Number 0863:
Abu Huraira reported: People should avoid lifting their eyes towards the sky while supplicating in prayer, otherwise their eyes would be snatched away.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 12, Number 717:
Narrated Anas bin Malik:
The Prophet said, “What is wrong with those people who look towards the sky during the prayer?” His talk grew stern while delivering this speech and he said, “They should stop (looking towards the sky during the prayer); otherwise their eye-sight would be taken
away.”

thanks hopefully somebody will be able to answer this 😃
Click to expand...
next time , put some Arabic sources ,it’s hard to find them sometimes
 
Mohamad was obsessed with s.a.t.a.n and hell fire

Mohamad was obsessed with superstition

Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 11, Number 685:
Narrated An-Nu’man bin 'Bashir:
**The Prophet said, “Straighten your rows or Allah will alter your faces.” **

Just this one statement above in bold is stupid on it’s own.
 
jakasaki said:
Mohamad was obsessed with s.a.t.a.n and hell fire

Mohamad was obsessed with superstition

Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 11, Number 685:
Narrated An-Nu’man bin 'Bashir:
**The Prophet said, “Straighten your rows or Allah will alter your faces.” **

Just this one statement above in bold is stupid on it’s own.
Click to expand...
 
DeusVult09 said:
I got another question too why did Mohammed say that if raise your head before the imam you will get transformed into a donkey?

Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 11, Number 660:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, “Isn’t he who raises his head before the Imam afraid that Allah may transform his head into that of a donkey or his figure (face) into that of a donkey?”

Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 11, Number 685:
Narrated An-Nu’man bin 'Bashir:
The Prophet said, “Straighten your rows or Allah will alter your faces.”

Also why did he say if you pray looking up Allah will snatch out your eyes?

Sahih Muslim Book 004, Number 0863:
Abu Huraira reported: People should avoid lifting their eyes towards the sky while supplicating in prayer, otherwise their eyes would be snatched away.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 12, Number 717:
Narrated Anas bin Malik:
The Prophet said, “What is wrong with those people who look towards the sky during the prayer?” His talk grew stern while delivering this speech and he said, “They should stop (looking towards the sky during the prayer); otherwise their eye-sight would be taken
away.”

thanks hopefully somebody will be able to answer this 😃
Click to expand...
I have the Bukhari book (in Arabic)

#660 talks about an imam in Quba city named Salim
#685 is there as you mentioned
#863 says “we used to go early for Friday prayer and take a nap after the Prayer”
#717 is there as mentioned
 
QUOTE=Hadi;5615216]I have the Bukhari book (in Arabic)
Click to expand...
#660 talks about an imam in Quba city named Salim
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Hadi, mine states the same as the poster.

#660
**Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, “Isn’t he who raises his head before the Imam afraid that Allah may transform his head into that of a donkey or his figure (face) into that of a donkey?” **

searchtruth.com/book_display.php?book=11&translator=1&start=10&number=660
#685 is there as you mentioned
Click to expand...
OK
#863 says “we used to go early for Friday prayer and take a nap after the
Prayer”
Click to expand...
This one from the poster is from Sahih Muslim not Sahih Al-Bukhari - I can’t post it because I do not have it, so perhaps the poster can link you.
#717 is there as mentioned
Click to expand...
OK

But on a side note:

I was reading more about the “call to prayer” and now I know why muslims “call” their fellow muslims to prayer.

**#0735
Ibn Umar reported: When the Muslims came to Medina, they gathered and sought to know the time of prayer but no one summoned them.

One day they discussed the matter, and some of them said:

Use something like the bell of the Christians and some of them said:

Use horn like that of the Jews.

Umar said: Why may not a be appointed who should call (people) to prayer?

The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: O Bilal, get up and summon (the people) to prayer. **

‘The Book of Prayers (Kitab Al-Salat)’ of Sahih Muslim.

This in interesting for me because I never knew why the “call” had to be a vioce… 🙂

I keep learning something new each day…
 
Hadi said:
I have the Bukhari book (in Arabic)

#660 talks about an imam in Quba city named Salim
#685 is there as you mentioned
#863 says “we used to go early for Friday prayer and take a nap after the Prayer”
#717 is there as mentioned
Click to expand...
i got them from http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/

so why does mohammad say these strange thigns about satan farting, allah turning people into donkies and snatching out their eyes? any commnets?
 
DeusVult09 said:
i got them from http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/
Click to expand...
so why does mohammad say these strange thigns about satan farting, allah turning people into donkies and snatching out their eyes? any commnets?

perhaps this is off topic, but I certainly find muslims to be more observant about their law. Is it perhaps of this kind of “terror” came from as early as Muhammad and this attitude is carried on by their next generation?
Is observing the law and rules don’t hold up more value to christian? What would make christian becoming more adhere to the needs of expressions of faith such as praying with ultimate respect regularly each day, fasting on lent, etc…etc…
 
Hadi said:
quranic.org/quran_article/10/hadiths_judged_by_hadiths.htm
Click to expand...
This is no way answers my question hadi. Its strange no Muslim ever can answer my questions when I ask them on these “questions about Islam “ threads, perhaps I had better not waste my time on them anymore.

If you are going to argue that these hadith are fake or corrupted you are going to have either produce some manuscripts proving so which is impossible because im pretty sure the original manuscripts Bukhari nd Muslim used don’t exist anymore or you will need to prove they are unreliable through their isnad. Just because these ahadith make Mohammad look rather silly **DOES NOT **constitute proof that they are fake or it does not mean you can just ignore them. Neither does arguing they conflict with the Koran. either prove they are fake or answer my questions about them please!
 
DeusVult09 said:
This is no way answers my question hadi. Its strange no Muslim ever can answer my questions when I ask them on these “questions about Islam “ threads, perhaps I had better not waste my time on them anymore.

If you are going to argue that these hadith are fake or corrupted you are going to have either produce some manuscripts proving so which is impossible because im pretty sure the original manuscripts Bukhari nd Muslim used don’t exist anymore or you will need to prove they are unreliable through their isnad. Just because these ahadith make Mohammad look rather silly **DOES NOT **constitute proof that they are fake or it does not mean you can just ignore them. Neither does arguing they conflict with the Koran. either prove they are fake or answer my questions about them please!
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Especially since there are some earnest truths that modern Muslims ignore:


  1. *]Many early and well known Muslim scholars (such as Ibn Kathir) regularly quoted hadith sources, especially al-Bukhari or Muslim, and especially hadith which so many modern Muslims find either embarrassing or ones that they are quick to ignore.
    *]There are many passages in the Koran which cannot be explained outside of the hadith. How can one read S. 111 and readily know who Abu Lahab was?
    *]If you want to know the history of the early Muslims and what they thought and what they faced, you have to go back to the hadith and early Muslim histories. Otherwise, you’re left with nothing.
 
Byzantine_Wolf said:
Especially since there are some earnest truths that modern Muslims ignore:


  1. *]Many early and well known Muslim scholars (such as Ibn Kathir) regularly quoted hadith sources, especially al-Bukhari or Muslim, and especially hadith which so many modern Muslims find either embarrassing or ones that they are quick to ignore.
    *]There are many passages in the Koran which cannot be explained outside of the hadith. How can one read S. 111 and readily know who Abu Lahab was?
    *]If you want to know the history of the early Muslims and what they thought and what they faced, you have to go back to the hadith and early Muslim histories. Otherwise, you’re left with nothing.
Click to expand...

  1. yes, the ahadiths tell us about history,culture understanding of religion of the early Muslims…but it has no authority over the Quran … you want to know who Abu Lahab was…don’t just read the Hadiths but also read the Sirah…knowing him is not an issue that common Muslims have to go through
 
Hadi said:
yes, the ahadiths tell us about history,culture understanding of religion of the early Muslims…but it has no authority over the Quran … you want to know who Abu Lahab was…don’t just read the Hadiths but also read the Sirah…knowing him is not an issue that common Muslims have to go through
Click to expand...
No one says the hadith have authority over the Koran, but they are good at demonstrating what certain Koranic passages mean. To cite Ibn Kathir again, he presents an early Muslim interpretation of what S. 9:29 means, and quotes hadith to back it up. Many early Muslim scholars did this. The only real change we see from this is in our modern times.

It is also vital to understand the background of any religious belief. For example, one cannot fully understand certain parts of the New Testament or epistles without researching the Jewish faith, the time period and influences of the various gospel writers, and certain theological concepts such as New Temple Judaism. Every sensible Christian knows this. Likewise, one cannot understand the influence behind certain Koranic passages without hadith and Muslim historical sources to verify it. They help us to understand what drove certain revelations and what made the Muslims do what they did.

And certainly, yes, I am aware that there is a scholarly science to which hadith chains are strongs, which ones are weak, and which hadith sources are reliable and which aren’t. I think the main complaint of most Christians on this forum is, when debating Muslims, they don’t receive that kind of scholarly response. Instead the Muslim - many times the exact same Muslim who quotes hadith in another post - will simply issue the blanket statement “You can’t trust all hadith” without demonstrating why those specific hadiths aren’t trustworthy.
 
Hadi said:
you never heard of “Mutazilah” ? these are an early Muslim group
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A small, minor group not always looked well upon by Sunni scholars. 😉 You cannot consider them an example of sincere, popular Muslim belief.
 
Byzantine_Wolf said:
A small, minor group not always looked well upon by Sunni scholars. 😉 You cannot consider them an example of sincere, popular Muslim belief.
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Mutazilah had strong influence on Sunni , Shias schools and even Jewish (Karaites) and Sufis thinkers…see their influence on the famous scholar AlQazali (5th century)… you can also read the introduction of Ibn hanbal’s Musnad about the hadiths of his time …also read on how Imam Shaafi’s dealt with the issues of the changes in society and culture vs the Ahadiths…the point is ,these were Omayyad and Abbasids times , not modern times.
 
Hadi said:
yes, the ahadiths tell us about history,culture understanding of religion of the early Muslims…but it has no authority over the Quran … you want to know who Abu Lahab was…don’t just read the Hadiths but also read the Sirah…knowing him is not an issue that common Muslims have to go through
Click to expand...
I never said they have authority over the koran but simply requested you to answer my questions. Since you still havent answered these questions Hadi I am to assume you cant?
 
DeusVult09 said:
I never said they have authority over the koran but simply requested you to answer my questions. Since you still havent answered these questions Hadi I am to assume you cant?
Click to expand...
it’s like asking you why did Jesus said this and that in a gnostic gospel
 
Hadi said:
it’s like asking you why did Jesus said this and that in a gnostic gospel
Click to expand...
Perhaps I am not as scholarly capable as B. Wolf or D. Volt but I can surely say that the gnostics were never accepted by the church from the beginning, they were products of heretics not the Christian. On the contrary, Hadits were collected by muslims themselves, and they were not supposed to lie about Muhammad, don’t u think? And as u said that there were several criterias to make collection of hadits acceptable, then by labelling that certain collections were sahih, then they must be reliable. And I don’t think that even if other hadits were not accepted, it wasn’t at the base of thinking that the muslim people who contributed narration created lies toward Muhammad, but they were only uncertain whether the story was really true or not due to the memory loss.
But if we see all the collection together as one source supporting each other we can’t escape to see that all those narrations have supported our thinking that Muhammad was not praiseworthy let alone perfect human being!
 
DeusVult09 said:
I got another question too why did Mohammed say that if raise your head before the imam you will get transformed into a donkey?

Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 11, Number 660:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, “Isn’t he who raises his head before the Imam afraid that Allah may transform his head into that of a donkey or his figure (face) into that of a donkey?”
Click to expand...
Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 11, Number 685:
Narrated An-Nu’man bin 'Bashir:
The Prophet said, “Straighten your rows or Allah will alter your faces.”

Also why did he say if you pray looking up Allah will snatch out your eyes?

Sahih Muslim Book 004, Number 0863:
Abu Huraira reported: People should avoid lifting their eyes towards the sky while supplicating in prayer, otherwise their eyes would be snatched away.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 12, Number 717:
Narrated Anas bin Malik:
The Prophet said, “What is wrong with those people who look towards the sky during the prayer?” His talk grew stern while delivering this speech and he said, “They should stop (looking towards the sky during the prayer); otherwise their eye-sight would be taken
away.”

thanks hopefully somebody will be able to answer this 😃

he said said that to prohibit the muslims from raising their heads before the imam in the salat
and to emphasize on straighten our raws in salat
and to not looking up to sky while we are in salat
 
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