Question on Islam.

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rinnie said:
Now is that not a true quote from the book?🤷
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No, sister. The thirteenth chapter of the Qur’an became corrupted after the death of Muhammad. We can attribute this revision of the text to proto-modernists who denied that miracles were possible and thus edited their holy book to give later generations the impression that Muhammad was not supposed to work miracles*. We have no evidence from either the Qur’anic manuscript tradition or testimony from other contemporary sources indicating that part of the Qur’an was changed beyond all recognition, but why should that stop us?

*I’m not going to enter into the question as to whether or not Muhammad performed signs in spite of verse 13:7–the aim here is to parody the common Islamic argument that the Old and New Testaments became corrupted.
 
Trebor135 said:
No, sister. The thirteenth chapter of the Qur’an became corrupted after the death of Muhammad. We can attribute this revision of the text to proto-modernists who denied that miracles were possible and thus edited their holy book to give later generations the impression that Muhammad was not supposed to work miracles*. We have no evidence from either the Qur’anic manuscript tradition or testimony from other contemporary sources indicating that part of the Qur’an was changed beyond all recognition, but why should that stop us?

*I’m not going to enter into the question as to whether or not Muhammad performed signs in spite of verse 13:7–the aim here is to parody the common Islamic argument that the Old and New Testaments became corrupted.
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Since the original bones, parchment, wood, scraps were destroyed, plus whatever surahs were written which were kept under Aishai’s bed as the goat ate them…

As well as the 7 different readings which existed during Uthmans time…

Ao one really knows the true koran.
 
jakasaki said:
Since the original bones, parchment, wood, scraps were destroyed, plus whatever surahs were written which were kept under Aishai’s bed as the goat ate them…

As well as the 7 different readings which existed during Uthmans time…

Ao one really knows the true koran.
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If I could answer that one, I’d be a rich oil shaykh. 😛

Seriously, I’d like to hear from Muslim posters on the issue. If God let the Bible become corrupted, why not the Qur’an?
 
The irony here is that people who say that they do not believe in the truth of the Qur’an are themselves referring to the Qur’an in order to “disprove” what is recorded in the ahadith regarding the miracles of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

I am curious → How would you know which between the Qur’an and the ahadith is more reliably true since the words written in both scriptures originated from the lips of the same man (pbuh)?
 
hamba2han said:
The irony here is that people who say that they do not believe in the truth of the Qur’an are themselves referring to the Qur’an in order to “disprove” what is recorded in the ahadith regarding the miracles of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

I am curious → How would you know which between the Qur’an and the ahadith is more reliably true since the words written in both scriptures originated from the lips of the same man (pbuh)?
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The self proclaimed prophet of Islam, is no different than the self proclaimed prophet,Joseph Smith.

One produces the Koran and the other produces the Book of Mormon.
 
I might be wrong and off topic, but does anyone else see Islam as being a religion of Force and Punishment rather than that of Peace ?

Granted the Catholic faith had the Crusades at one point, but it does not continue any longer.

and what would the world look life if the Crusades still took place ? Would the media, social entertainment still be quick to mock, insult, and blasphem against Jesus and the Catholic Church, if Crusades still took place or if Catholics reacted in the same manner or worse as Muslims do when someone mocks Islam in a social way for the masses to view.
 
john78 said:
I might be wrong and off topic, but does anyone else see Islam as being a religion of Force and Punishment rather than that of Peace ?

Granted the Catholic faith had the Crusades at one point, but it does not continue any longer.

and what would the world look life if the Crusades still took place ? Would the media, social entertainment still be quick to mock, insult, and blasphem against Jesus and the Catholic Church, if Crusades still took place or if Catholics reacted in the same manner or worse as Muslims do when someone mocks Islam in a social way for the masses to view.
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Muslim crusades of Christian lands… et al … started in the year of 630AD…

It was only on 1095AD when Pope Urban II preaches and authorizes the first crusade

where the Christians capture Jerusalem by 1099AD.

The Christian crusades was the result of over 400 years of muslim invasions and conquests.
 
jakasaki said:
You have 2 posters waiting for an answer…
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I’ll have to get back to you, as I’m not on my usual laptop and so have NONE of my notes, Qur’an or anything with me. To be fair, I’ve been so busy with my Islamic Studies dissertation, I’d forgotten.
 
Kouyate42 said:
I’ll have to get back to you, as I’m not on my usual laptop and so have NONE of my notes, Qur’an or anything with me. To be fair, I’ve been so busy with my Islamic Studies dissertation, I’d forgotten.
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Great! I’ll keep reminding you.
 
Kouyate42 said:
I’ll have to get back to you, as I’m not on my usual laptop and so have NONE of my notes, Qur’an or anything with me. To be fair, I’ve been so busy with my Islamic Studies dissertation, I’d forgotten.
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Kouyate, seriously, what’s going on? You’ve religion hopped more times than I can count. Now in this thread you’ve been talking about being a woman and how Islam treats women, yet for months (longer?) you’ve insisted that you’ve never felt female and are (or will?) be taking hormones and want to eventually hve gender reassignment surgery.
Not to be nosy, but what does your therapist think about your confusion? I’m no shrink but I really think that you should concentrate on that how confused you seem to be and give yourself time to really understand what you want.
 
The Muslims here seem to be running out of excuses and keep beating around the bush.
 
jakasaki said:
Ya… sorry Faith… I forgot about you…

Please keep bumping your inquiry in order to remind her…
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Make that four as I also challenged her produce evidence from the bible that allegedly disproves Christ’s divinity
 
jakasaki said:
Since the original bones, parchment, wood, scraps were destroyed, plus whatever surahs were written which were kept under Aishai’s bed as the goat ate them…

As well as the 7 different readings which existed during Uthmans time…

Ao one really knows the true koran.
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Is this like the dog ate my homework? :rotfl:
 
Trebor135 said:
If I could answer that one, I’d be a rich oil shaykh. 😛

Seriously, I’d like to hear from Muslim posters on the issue. If God let the Bible become corrupted, why not the Qur’an?
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Because Muhammad :saw: is Allah’s last messenger & prophet to mankind.

In the past, when people went astray from the teachings of a prophet, Allah sent them another prophet to guide them back to the truth. But since this is the last revelation, Allah has promised to keep it as it is and without corruption:

“We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).” 15:9

The quran is protected from corruption so that people will always find a way back to the Almighty.

thank you.
 
elwill said:
The quran is protected from corruption so that people will always find a way back to the Almighty.
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By the same argument, a just God would have protected the Old Testament and New Testament. Yet there are textual changes in both, and in the Quran (see Jeffrey, Materials for the history of the Quran).

Quran 15:9 says*** “Truly, it is we who sent down the remembrance, and truly we have preserved it/him.”***

The primary reference is to Muhammad, the remembrance of God. The context is that people are asking why Muhammad does not show them angels, and the answer is, (1) if we sent angels to every unbeliever, the angels would be run off their wings, and (2) if they want to see something spectacular, we have sent Muhammad and kept him safe when the Quraysh and others conspired against him, just as (verse10) we sent apostles in the past.

The secondary reference is to the remembrance of God among the people, which has always been preserved by God, for when people become forgetful, God sends a Warner or a Messenger and revives God-mindfulness.

No textual variants are known in this verse, but in verse 6 and 10 there are small variants. The variants themselves tell us the Quran is not speaking of the words written on a page (which did not even exist when these words were first recited), it is speaking of the person, who was preserved, and the remembrance among us, which – when it fades, as it does – God always restores.
 
Sen_McGlinn said:
By the same argument, a just God would have protected the Old Testament and New Testament. Yet there are textual changes in both, and in the Quran (see Jeffrey, Materials for the history of the Quran).
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what textual changes ! , and how far it affects the meaning if it did
Quran 15:9 says*** “Truly, it is we who sent down the remembrance, and truly we have preserved it/him.”***
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The primary reference is to Muhammad, the remembrance of God. The context is that people are asking why Muhammad does not show them angels, and the answer is, (1) if we sent angels to every unbeliever, the angels would be run off their wings, and (2) if they want to see something spectacular, we have sent Muhammad and kept him safe when the Quraysh and others conspired against him, just as (verse10) we sent apostles in the past.
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The secondary reference is to the remembrance of God among the people, which has always been preserved by God, for when people become forgetful, God sends a Warner or a Messenger and revives God-mindfulness.
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No textual variants are known in this verse, but in verse 6 and 10 there are small variants. The variants themselves tell us the Quran is not speaking of the words written on a page (which did not even exist when these words were first recited), it is speaking of the person, who was preserved, and the remembrance among us, which – when it fades, as it does – God always restores.
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you based your argument in wrong interpretation which dosn’t represent the clear words of the verses

however , we have another verse in chapter 56
77 That this is indeed a qur’an Most Honourable
78 In Book well-guarded
 
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