Question on Islam.

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Because Muhammad :saw: is Allah’s last messenger & prophet to mankind.

In the past, when people went astray from the teachings of a prophet, Allah sent them another prophet to guide them back to the truth. But since this is the last revelation, Allah has promised to keep it as it is and without corruption:

“We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).” 15:9

The quran is protected from corruption so that people will always find a way back to the Almighty.

thank you.
I’ve asked this many times and have not received an answer.

Out of the 124,000 prophets of Allah, which includes, Abraham, Moses, David, Jacob… etc… etc… Allah was not able to the protect his message with so many thousands and thousands of prophets.

But now comes Mohamad and the message is preserved

Why is that…?
 
Because Muhammad :saw: is Allah’s last messenger & prophet to mankind.

In the past, when people went astray from the teachings of a prophet, Allah sent them another prophet to guide them back to the truth. But since this is the last revelation, Allah has promised to keep it as it is and without corruption:

“We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).” 15:9

The quran is protected from corruption so that people will always find a way back to the Almighty.
So why didn’t he just protect the first Revelation from the beginning so that people would always find a way back like he has now done with Qur’an? Why send so many messengers when he can just protect the revelation from the beginning? 🤷
 
So why didn’t he just protect the first Revelation from the beginning so that people would always find a way back like he has now done with Qur’an? Why send so many messengers when he can just protect the revelation from the beginning? 🤷
:amen:

No muslim that I have asked this to has been able to answer this question. I would like to see how our Muslim compatriot responds to this 🍿
 
**How is Islam the fastest growing religion? What do people see in Islam that attracts them more then Christianity? Are they now the worlds biggest religion and bigger than the Catholic Church?

God Bless**
I can’t answer the first two questions, but for the last one, there are more Muslims than Catholics; there are 1.2 billion Catholics in the world, but 1.5 Muslims in the world. However, the number of overall Christians in the world is 2.1 billion (including Protestants, Eastern Orthodox, etc.).
 
Because Muhammad :saw: is Allah’s last messenger & prophet to mankind.

In the past, when people went astray from the teachings of a prophet, Allah sent them another prophet to guide them back to the truth. But since this is the last revelation, Allah has promised to keep it as it is and without corruption:

“We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).” 15:9

The quran is protected from corruption so that people will always find a way back to the Almighty.

thank you.
In order for the Qur’an to have any claim to legitimacy, Muslims absolutely must allege that the prior holy books became corrupted.

Can you provide any historical or archaeological evidence demonstrating that all of God’s previous revelations were changed to the point where they contained teachings that sent billions of souls to hell?
 
I’ve asked this many times and have not received an answer.

Out of the 124,000 prophets of Allah, which includes, Abraham, Moses, David, Jacob… etc… etc… Allah was not able to the protect his message with so many thousands and thousands of prophets.

But now comes Mohamad and the message is preserved

Why is that…?
i think that my answer was clear , we believe that God sent the other prophets for specefic nations and specific time
it was a plan from God to send specefic prophets to specific nations , only mohammed (pbuh) according to our beliefs was sent as a final prophet for all mankind

it wasn’t necessery to protect early scriptures for a next generations if it was in his plan to send other prophets for them

God have the ability to do whatever he want , but it was his plan to sent Mohammed as a final prophet and save his massage from the corruption .
f he wanted to make mohammed (pbuh) not exist , it’s easy for him
and if he wanted to reserve the revelation of jesus (pbuh) , it’s easy for him
and if he wanted for all of people to be rightious believers to him without sending any prophet at all , it 's easy for him

so , i will not argue why he choose this plan for us , i can just argue to prove my beliefs by telling facts

i can’t argue the reasons of God to let bible corrupted , i can proof directly that’s it’s corrupted

arguing about why God reserved the quran isn’t more important than arguing proofs of it
 
In order for the Qur’an to have any claim to legitimacy, Muslims absolutely must allege that the prior holy books became corrupted.

Can you provide any historical or archaeological evidence demonstrating that all of God’s previous revelations were changed to the point where they contained teachings that sent billions of souls to hell?
nowadays , you don’t need from a muslim to inform you about authenticity of the bible , scholars of the bible have knowledge about that than muslims .
 
i think that my answer was clear , we believe that God sent the other prophets for specefic nations and specific time
it was a plan from God to send specefic prophets to specific nations , only mohammed (pbuh) according to our beliefs was sent as a final prophet for all mankind
Yet he chose to allow his revelation to these “specific nations” to be corrupted? Why? What’s the use? God giving out messages and refusing to protect them? Did he desire that people be mislead? Was he not interested that people should know the truth? If he had no such interest to have the people know the truth, then why bother with sending the revelation at all? If Moh’d was planned to be the last one for all mankind, why did the previous messages have to be corrupted? Indeed preserving them would allow all the “the people of the the book” to recognize Moh’d and his prophet-hood when he came, and accept the last revelation, no?
it wasn’t necessery to protect early scriptures for a next generations if it was in his plan to send other prophets for them
Why then not the same for the Qur’an? After all, there’s nothing stopping God from sending more prophets if Muslims corrupt the message. :shrug:Was God not interested that all the people to whom he gave a revelation had access to the truth? Why allow others to be corrupted and many people to read false messages until another prophet came? It seems Islam’s whole logic for prophet-hood depends on corrupting revelations, so that the purpose of a prophet-hood is not to give truths to people that they might otherwise not know, but to just correct previously corrupted messages- not only that, you correct previously corrupted messages fully expecting your “correction” to also be corrupted and to need a later correction from another prophet-hood- a merry-go-round. It makes no sense! God does not engage in futility or redundancy.

If the revelation is his work, he will protect it as he does every other work of his. If it gets corrupted, then Satan has triumphed over the work of God himself, corrupting his words and his truth!- No way! Would be another thing if you told us that satan convinced people to reject the truth of God, to teach false things about it, but to actually change the work of God himself from heaven such that the work of God is actually lost and replaced by a corruption of men? No way- That’s the work of humanity not the work of God like “revelation” is.
 
what textual changes ! , and how far it affects the meaning if it did
Thousands of small variants, almost all of them having no effect on the meaning, but very significant since they show that there is not one text of the Quran that has been miraculously preserved from change over time, and it shows that those ‘scholars’ who do arithmetical acrobats with the abjad of whole surahs and the whole Quran, and find patterns in it, are fooling themselves. The abjad calculations depend on the exact lettering of the text, and there are thousands of variants at the very small level (variant spellings, or synonyms), so such calculations are meaningless.

These variations were known in the classical Islamic age, but fell out of sight as Islamic scholarship declined, due to the Mongol invasion and the normal decline of any human institution. Jeffrey based himself largely on the Kitab al-Masahif of Ibn Abi Dawud, in the Zahiriya Library in Damascus. This is the only intact example of a number of books by Islamic scholars in the classical period who collected citations in the early Islamic literature from variant manuscripts. When the pre-Uthmanic Quran collections were order to be destroyed, many scholars concealed theirs and in any case remembered what was in them, and eventually some scholars, like Ibn Abi Dawud, systematized the study of the Quran variants.

The most important of the early codices, differing from the Uthmanic version, are those of Ibn Mas’ud, Ubai b, Ka’b, Ali, Ibn Abbas, Abu Musa, Hafsa, Anas b. Malik, Umar, Zaid b. Thabit, Ibn az-Zubair, Ibn Amr, Aisha, Salim, Umm Salama, and Ubaid b. `Umair.

Not all the variants come from after the time of Muhammad. Some show the development of the text during the mission of Muhammad. For example, Sura 103 in Ali's version has two extra words in verse one, so it reads (**by the age** (asr), and the ups and downs of time (dahr), verse 2 is the same as the Uthmanic text (“verily man is at a loss.”

However verse three is completely different in meaning to the Uthmanic text. It says “and he remains in it to the end of time.” In the Uthmanic text verse three reads, “except those who believe and do good deeds and enjoin one another in what is right, and enjoin one another to be steadfast.”

There’s another version recroded by Ibn Mas’ud, which begins, “By time, Truly we have only created man for his loss, except for such as have faith and enjoin one another to piety…” This looks like an intermediary between the earlier bleak version of `Ali, and the later Uthmanic version. It has “except…” and gives the believers an escape clause, but it does not have the “good deeds” which is more a Medinan theme than a Meccan one.
you based your argument in wrong interpretation which dosn’t represent the clear words of the verses
An assertion is not an argument. What actually happened is that you based yourself on a translation, without checking the original.

I did check, and what I said does rest on the clear words of the verses. I saw that there was no word for “message” in the Arabic. Rather I found the word dhekr (remembrance). And I checked the verses before and after, and saw that this remembrance must be a person, since it is parallel to the angels before, and because the following verse says “we have sent X before you.” The X is unspecified, but the implication is “the one/thing sent” (hence the usual translation, “we have sent apostles before you”.)
however , we have another verse in chapter 56
77 That this is indeed a qur’an Most Honourable."
78 In Book well-guarded
This is an early Meccan surah. At that time, the Qur’an meant recitation, not a particular book collected together, and Book likewise did not mean a collected Quran like the Uthmanic version or the earlier collections that Uthman ordered replaced. There were no such collections. The words quran and kitab were used, but they did not mean what we mean today by “the Quran.” In the same way, “the gospel” in the New Testament does not mean the New Testament, because when the New Testament was collated, it did not exist. “Gospel” means the preaching, the good news, not the book.

Verse 79 gives us a typical example of the variant versions. Ibn Mas’ud (who died about the year 33 of the Islamic calendar, so his is a very early collection) begins the verse with Ma rather than La. They are both negatives, preceding the verb, and the meaning is not affected. But we have no way of knowing which is the one Muhammad used, or whether he sometimes said one and sometimes the other. In the same verse, Ibn Mas’ud and Aban b. Taghlib have a variant spelling of “the pure”, al-mutaTahhiruna. Such variants put paid to any idea of adding up the numerical value of the letters and discovering a secret code.

On top of the early text variants, there are later ones. These have been largely obscured by the great success of the Egyptian edition prepared on the orders of King Fu’ad. His version is used almost everywhere in the Arab world today. But I sat in a tafsir class with Moroccan students, and their Qurans were slightly different because they were printed in Morocco. Before the Egyptian edition, there were big variants and a lot of confusion, as you would expect when a text is copied by thousands of different scribes in different parts of the world. This led King Fu’ad to order one authorised edition to be prepared in 1923. And it’s that edition, spread all over the world, that gives the impression that the text has been consistently preserved from variations.
 
Asalaamu ‘aleikum wa rahmahtullah wa barukatah everyone! Just to let you know that at some point, I’m going to create a new thread on the subject of Jesus’ divinity, in keeping with the promise I made to discuss this.

Masr’ al-khayr!
 
Asalaamu 'aleikum wa rahmahtullah wa barukatah everyone!
Wa `alaykum al-salaam wa raHmat Allah wa barakaat.
Just to let you know that at some point, I’m going to create a new thread on the subject of Jesus’ divinity, in keeping with the promise I made to discuss this.
Post a link when you get the chance to start the thread. 🙂
Masr’ al-khayr!
Do you mean masaa’ al-khayr? 🙂
 
If the revelation is his work, he will protect it as he does every other work of his. … Would be another thing if you told us that satan convinced people to reject the truth of God, to teach false things about it, but to actually change the work of God himself from heaven such that the work of God is actually lost and replaced by a corruption of men? …
Good questions Marybeloved. What could be the basis for Islamic exceptionalism, that their revelation does not get corrupted and others do? I even have a proof text for you:

“This was (our) way with the ones we sent before you, the apostles, you do not find any change in our ways.” (17:77)

Muhammad does not teach that Islam is an exception, that is one of the ideas that have developed over time.

I like you suggestion that the “corruption” verses in the Quran refer to people teaching false things about the revelation, rather than to changing the text (which also happened, but it’s of secondary importance). This explanation is also in the Quran (2:75) where some contemporaries of Muhammad are said to have perverted the message of God, knowingly. Since they did not have the written text of the Quran, obviously they had not changed the text; they must have twisted the meaning in some way.

Baha’u’llah, the founder of the Bahai Faith, gave the same explanation, in his Book of Certitude, also know and the Kitab-e Iqan.

the text is online here:
reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/KI/ki-3.html
from paragraph 91.

Briefly, he says that the authority of the religious texts (in this case the Bible) speaks for itself. But Muslims have not understood what is meant by “corrupting the text.” While there are some specific changes that have been noticed, the example of the Jews of Khaybar shows what is really meant. There was a dispute among the Jews about the penalty for adultery between a married man and a married woman, and Muhammad was asked to adjudicate (it was an actual case not a theoretical argument). Muhammad gave judgement according to the Torah: death by stoning. Some protested, saying that that was not the Jewish law, and Muhammad summoned their top Rabbi, Ibn Suriya, who said that death by stoning was indeed the law. Muḥammad asked why it was not practiced among the Jews and Ibn Suriya said the religious scholars of the time after Nebuchadnezzar’s conquest decided not to practice it because so few of the nation had survived (in Jerusalem). At that point “Gabriel inspired Muḥammad’s illumined heart with these words: “They pervert the text of the Word of God.”” (Quran 4.45)

The “context of revelation” for the verse tells us that it was not about changing the text of the Torah literally, but about assuming authority over it, and perverting the message (kalemeh means both a word, and a message). Moreover, Baha’u’llah says, this is just what the Islamic scholars are doing today: “the interpretation of God’s holy Book in accordance with their idle imaginings and vain desires. And as the Jews, in the time of Muḥammad, interpreted those verses … in this day, the people of the Qur’an have perverted the text of God’s holy Book, … and interpreted it according to their inclination and desires.”

Islamic exceptionalism is the outcome: other religions were for a time and place but Islam is for all time and the best.

Another good question is why God would send a religion for the whole world, to Arabia at a time when the Americas and Euro-Asia were not even in contact, not to mention the people of Papua New Guinea. Until modern times, all religion, culture, science etc… – everything – was local. Global was not in the realms of possibility.

== == ==

Q 46:12 before this, was the Book of Moses as a guide and a mercy; and this Book confirms (it) in the Arabic tongue; to admonish the unjust, and as Glad Tidings to those who do right. ((Yusuf Ali tr))

13:37. Thus have We revealed it to be a judgment of authority in Arabic. …
38. We did send Messengers before thee, … For each period is a Book (revealed).
 
i think that my answer was clear , we believe that God sent the other prophets for specefic nations and specific time
it was a plan from God to send specefic prophets to specific nations , only mohammed (pbuh) according to our beliefs was sent as a final prophet for all mankind

it wasn’t necessery to protect early scriptures for a next generations if it was in his plan to send other prophets for them

God have the ability to do whatever he want , but it was his plan to sent Mohammed as a final prophet and save his massage from the corruption .
f he wanted to make mohammed (pbuh) not exist , it’s easy for him
and if he wanted to reserve the revelation of jesus (pbuh) , it’s easy for him
and if he wanted for all of people to be rightious believers to him without sending any prophet at all , it 's easy for him

so , i will not argue why he choose this plan for us , i can just argue to prove my beliefs by telling facts

i can’t argue the reasons of God to let bible corrupted , i can proof directly that’s it’s corrupted

arguing about why God reserved the quran isn’t more important than arguing proofs of it
This makes no sense to me. By saying If God did not want Muhammad to exist he could just have not created him?:confused: God warned us that many false prophets would come and try to sway us from the truth.

You claim that our word of God is corrupt but yours is not, Then why is it, the Bible our word of God lines up in perfect balance with the O.T. then and your does not?
 
Here is something else.

Where did Muhammad ever teach HE was the way the truth and the light? Never!!

Christ said he was A door, Christ said he is THE DOOR.

He never said his teaching or his example was the door. but that he Personally was the Unique entrance to the fulness of the Godlife!!

He stand apart from ALL of the other prophets. Where did Moses say that? And Muhammad never said it.

No One comes to the Father except through me. John 14:6

If Muhammad was a true Prophet he would never deny the true word of the Son of God.
 
Here is something else.

Where did Muhammad ever teach HE was the way the truth and the light? Never!!

Christ said he was A door, Christ said he is THE DOOR.

He never said his teaching or his example was the door. but that he Personally was the Unique entrance to the fulness of the Godlife!!

He stand apart from ALL of the other prophets. Where did Moses say that? And Muhammad never said it.

No One comes to the Father except through me. John 14:6

If Muhammad was a true Prophet he would never deny the true word of the Son of God.
Actually it stated in the Qur’an that Islam is the ONLY religion accepted by Islam.

‘‘If anyone desires a religion other than Islam, never will he be accepted of God; and in the next life, he will be in the ranks of those who have lost themselves’’. (Qur’an 3:85)

Muhammad (saw) was sent only as a human prophet, but with a mission to bring all the world to Islam and the worship of the true God. Being a Muslim involves belief in Qur’an, but also emulation of the Prophet in behavior, worship and manner as he was the best example of humanity and a perfect example of true devotion to Allah.

And that last sentence is wrong. The bolded bit is the problem here, as Islam takes 'Isa or Jesus to be a human prophet only, and NOT the Son of God. Nothing that Muhammad (saw) said or did is in contradiction to what Jesus really taught (and not the corrupted Bible that Christians still insist on teaching as ‘truth’) in the Injil.
 
And that last sentence is wrong. The bolded bit is the problem here, as Islam takes 'Isa or Jesus to be a human prophet only, and NOT the Son of God. Nothing that Muhammad (saw) said or did is in contradiction to what Jesus really taught (and not the corrupted Bible that Christians still insist on teaching as ‘truth’) in the Injil.
Without circular reasoning (i.e., “If it lines up with the Qur’an, the Injil is correct on this point; if it contradicts the Qur’an, the Injil is incorrect on that point”), how do we distinguish the parts of the text that became corrupted from those that did not?
 
Because Muhammad :saw: is Allah’s last messenger & prophet to mankind.

In the past, when people went astray from the teachings of a prophet, Allah sent them another prophet to guide them back to the truth. But since this is the last revelation, Allah has promised to keep it as it is and without corruption:

“We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).” 15:9

The quran is protected from corruption so that people will always find a way back to the Almighty.

thank you.
Christ left the Aposltes to keep the true teaching’s in the Catholic Church. Christ said I am with you always until the end of age.

Why would God come to this earth, in the name of Jesus, leave us a Church, promise to be with us until the end of age, and then send another prophet.

Can you not see that Jesus is not a prophet, he never called himself a prophet. He told us who he was I AM. He is God.

What authority does Muhummad have over Jesus Christ the Son of God.

God told us there would NEVER be another prophet. He said he could come back as he left through the sky.

The O.T. and the N.T. tie into one another perfectly. You are trying to say that Muhammad is the Advocate the Holy Spirit.

If Muhammad was the Advocate the Holy Spirit he would have come to the Church at the day of Pentecost as promised. But the Holy Spirit is the Advocate the Holy Spirit who came at the day of Pentecost and is still here leading the CC.

You claim Muhammad is the one that is written about in the N.T. There if this were true what took him 600 years. The Pentecost was promised right after Christ left. Not 600 years later.

Nothing you say even lines up with the N.T or the O.T.
 
Actually it stated in the Qur’an that Islam is the ONLY religion accepted by Islam.

‘‘If anyone desires a religion other than Islam, never will he be accepted of God; and in the next life, he will be in the ranks of those who have lost themselves’’. (Qur’an 3:85)

Muhammad (saw) was sent only as a human prophet, but with a mission to bring all the world to Islam and the worship of the true God. Being a Muslim involves belief in Qur’an, but also emulation of the Prophet in behavior, worship and manner as he was the best example of humanity and a perfect example of true devotion to Allah.

And that last sentence is wrong. The bolded bit is the problem here, as Islam takes 'Isa or Jesus to be a human prophet only, and NOT the Son of God. Nothing that Muhammad (saw) said or did is in contradiction to what Jesus really taught (and not the corrupted Bible that Christians still insist on teaching as ‘truth’) in the Injil.
God is human and Divine. Jesus Christ was human and divine. Tell me how is sin taken away?

How can you enter heaven by a human prophet who commited the sin of adultery. Had sex with a 9 year old child. Taught the world to hate others who are different from you. Taught the world to beat their wives.

I know you reject Christ as God. But just because you reject Christ as God does not make it so.

We are taught to judge someone by their fruits. I thinl just the few fruits of Muhammad I mentioned would be enough.

Do you agree that it is okay to have sex with a nine year old child? You must accept this teaching correct? Because if you accept every single word that he taught and action he did, being from God you have to be okay with it right?

How me ONE sin that was commited by Jesus. Just one. You can’t because they could not even find one thing at his trial! Simply because he was telling the truth.
 
And that last sentence is wrong. The bolded bit is the problem here, as Islam takes 'Isa or Jesus to be a human prophet only, and NOT the Son of God. Nothing that Muhammad (saw) said or did is in contradiction to what Jesus really taught (and not the corrupted Bible that Christians still insist on teaching as ‘truth’) in the Injil.
As the Christian Monk said to the Muslim in the 12th century dialogue :

"Do not say something you can’t prove, because, in the end, you will be ashamed, like that one who prefers to cover the sunlight.

Let us suppose that some people in the
West had altered their Gospels. So, how did they reach
those who are at the end of the earth in the East? Same
thing for those who are in the North towards the South.
It’s impossible. If that was possible you were, then,
founding the apocryphal Gospels with a part of
Christians. While if you pay for a trip over the whole
world, you will find the Gospels in various languages
analogous to those received from the Apostles of our
Lord the Christ. No difference between any of them,
even in one letter, except the particular traits of each
language. I, hereby, give you an example which lets you
believe me: If someone comes and shows a Koran
different from that known to you now, and says, " this is
the Koran inspired by the Prophet," while it is not, will
you accept it?"

I doubt you will accept it. In the same logic, why would the early Christians accept a false gospel knowing that what they had was the truth?
🤷

I ask 6 simple questions :
  1. Who corrupted the Bible?
  2. When was it corrupted?
  3. Why was it corrupted?
  4. Where was it corrupted?
  5. How did the corrupters of the Bible manage to get the early christians to leave their true gospel, (which they knew was true) which stated Jesus was a mere prophet, for a false gospel which has Jesus claiming to be the Son of God (Mark 14:60-62) ?
  6. Were the early christians so naive as to not realize how this new gospel(which teaches Jesus’ divinity) taught contradictory doctrines to those which they received from the Apostles?
 
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