Question on judgement

[ccmnxc]

Does this: But I now write to you not to associate with anyone named a brother, if he is immoral, greedy, an idolater, a slanderer, a drunkard, or a robber, not even to eat with such a person.h
12
For why should I be judging outsiders? Is it not your business to judge those within?
13
God will judge those outside. “Purge the evil person from your midst.”
(1 Corinthians 5:11-13)

Contradict this: Ezekiel 3:18-19

18
If I say to the wicked, You shall surely die—and you do not warn them or speak out to dissuade the wicked from their evil conduct in order to save their lives—then they shall die for their sin, but I will hold you responsible for their blood.
19
If, however, you warn the wicked and they still do not turn from their wickedness and evil conduct, they shall die for their sin, but you shall save your life.

 

[jmjconder]

Does this: But I now write to you not to associate with anyone named a brother, if he is immoral, greedy, an idolater, a slanderer, a drunkard, or a robber, not even to eat with such a person.h
12
For why should I be judging outsiders? Is it not your business to judge those within?
13
God will judge those outside. “Purge the evil person from your midst.”
(1 Corinthians 5:11-13)

Contradict this: Ezekiel 3:18-19

18
If I say to the wicked, You shall surely die—and you do not warn them or speak out to dissuade the wicked from their evil conduct in order to save their lives—then they shall die for their sin, but I will hold you responsible for their blood.
19
If, however, you warn the wicked and they still do not turn from their wickedness and evil conduct, they shall die for their sin, but you shall save your life.

This is something that has always bothered me. No man can judge - only God judges. Man can criticize based on facts. Judgment is God’s role. Yet many people - including me - judge people - I am reminded again and again of this part of our faith.

 

[Ruthie_again]

It’s easy to get confused about the meaning of “judge.”

If you think about it, we make judgements all the time. Should I exceed the speed limit to get to Mass on time? Should I have the burger or the salad? Should I go out with Friend, when I know she’ll get me to stay out too late? Is this a good buy? What time should I go to bed? If So-and-so tells me something is good/bad/stupid, should I believe it? We answer questions like that every few minutes.

We cannot judge someone as going to hell. We can’t even decide if someone else’s sin is mortal, only whether it is grave. (Whether or not it is mortal is between that person and Jesus. Jesus is the one who judges that - only Jesus. (For which I am devoutly grateful!)

But we are expected to use our prudential judgement. How many times have we heard to avoid occasions of sin? Wouldn’t you, if you are trying to quit smoking, stay away from that one friend who says, “C’mon! have one! It won’t kill ya!” That is a prudential judgement.

And remember, Paul isn’t speaking to seasoned saints here. He is speaking to new converts:

But I, brethren, could not address you as spiritual men, but as men of the flesh, as babes in Christ. I fed you with milk, not solid food; for you were not ready for it; and even yet you are not ready, for you are still of the flesh.
1 Cor 3:1-3 (RSV)

And he’s telling these babes in Christ to stay away from so-called “brothers” who don’t practice what they preach. The ones who call themselves Christians but are still “immoral, greedy, an idolater, a slanderer, a drunkard, or a robber.” The ones who are occasions of sin.

In the meantime, from a different letter…

Have no anxiety about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God, which passes all understanding, will keep your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is gracious, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.
Phil 4:6-8 (RSV)

Still working on it, :getholy:

 

[Huiou_Theou]

Does this: But I now write to you not to associate with anyone named a brother, …

Contradict this: Ezekiel 3:18-19

They are not in contradiction.
I think your translation’s a little misleading, but the point of 1Cori 5:13 is to remove perversion from the body of Christ. I might translate:

1Cori 5:13 – "It is for you to pass judgement within your own number, leaving God to judge those who are without. Execrate the perverted ones of yours, out!

St, Paul, if you think about it – is writing to other priests who are in control of a community. It is the priest who has the power of judging those inside the church – eg: The sacrament of Confession may only be applied to those already baptized. It has no meaning to a pagan, etc.

In order for a priest to “judge” someone, there has to be an encounter or a public scandal where the crime is made manifest. I’d also like to comment that 1Cori 5:13, does not talk about purging which brings to mind the idea of a cleansing by “burning”; That would be “witch” hunting and a bad translation – rather that passage speaks of casting them out of the body of Christ – and most importantly, letting God judge them for what they do once outside. It is only while a pervert publicly pretends to be a Christian (with no repentance/confession) that they are to extra-ordinarily shunned by the Christian community.

The passage doesn’t preclude the possibility of working with them toward reconciliation once they acknowledge their failure to act as a Christian.

The passage in Ezekiel is fulfilled by 1Cori 5:13 by the edict to execrate them. It’s not possible for perverts to be dis-allowed in a congregation/assembly without a confrontation. Hence, they must be told of their sin in order to be rejected from the church.

 

[ccmnxc]

Thank you for your replies.