Question on Muslim? Doctrine

[isu]

Hello everyone,

I hope my following question doesn’t break the forum rules. I did read them but I fear this may be borderline.

I am not trying to be rude, I am only trying to understand. Unfortunately, with a 1 year old I don’t have time to dig deeply and so I am hoping someone here can help point me to exactly where the information can be found.

My question is: Where does it say that non-muslims (I hope I am using the correct term, if not please correct me) should be killed? Then also, where does it say that this practice (if it is in the book) is abolished?

My thinking is how things where in the old testament and then Jesus changed the rules to the ones we have now. Which is why Christians no longer prescribe to those laws. I would like to know who…which prophet stopped it, etc.

I hope my question is understandable and in no way being disrespectful or generalizing. I just want to try to understand the issue and why there are peaceful and non-peaceful groups who follow the same book. I am NOT suggesting that other religions don’t have this problem. I just know next to nothing about this matter.

If this is too rude then please let me know and delete it or I’ll delete it.

Thank you for your time and knowledge.

 

[Hatikvah]

I am not trying to be rude, I am only trying to understand. Unfortunately, with a 1 year old I don’t have time to dig deeply and so I am hoping someone here can help point me to exactly where the information can be found.

My question is: Where does it say that non-muslims (I hope I am using the correct term, if not please correct me) should be killed? Then also, where does it say that this practice (if it is in the book) is abolished?

I’m aware that this is a hot-button issue. I’m glad that you’re not being rash and you are using cautious language. There are quite a few Muslim posters on here who can corroborate or fix my answer. I think that we should go to a Muslim source, first and foremost. Chapter 9 of the Qur’an is often used against Islamic doctrine or practice on this matter.

[Verses in chapter 9 are] often used as evidence that Islam allows killing of non-Muslims, but what is not recognized is the context and history behind these verses.

The history of this verse is that when Prophet Muhammad began preaching the unity of God he was persecuted for 13 years, much as Prophets Abraham and Jesus were. Since Muslims who are being persecuted are encouraged to leave for safer areas, rather than create disorder, Muhammad and his followers migrated to Medina. After they left, the Meccans attacked them in Medina on and off for a period of nine years until Chapter 9 was revealed.

Point: Sometimes, violence was used by Muslims in self-defense or in anticipation of future attacks.

Looking at the context of the verses, it becomes obvious that **the commandment of this verse only relates to those tribes who continued hostilities against the Muslims even after they had migrated.

**In particular, reference is made to 5 tribes… that did not honor the treaties they made with Muslims. It is also important to remember that the preceding verses give these people respite for 4 months to reconsider their behavior and cease hostilities.

Point: Sometimes, treaties were violated by either side (e.g., Treaty of Hudaybiyyah).

I will give you three sources with different perspectives just so you can decide for yourself.

• Islam and violence (secular source)
• The Qur’an and violence (non-Muslim source)
• Killing of non-Muslims (Muslim source)

My thinking is how things where in the old testament and then Jesus changed the rules to the ones we have now. Which is why Christians no longer prescribe to those laws. I would like to know who…which prophet stopped it, etc.

We might want to avoid saying that the Law was “changed.” The Law was never abolished, and yet it was fulfilled (Matthew 5:17). It will never pass away (Matthew 5:18, Luke 21:33, Matthew 24:35).

I hope my question is understandable and in no way being disrespectful or generalizing. I just want to try to understand the issue and why there are peaceful and non-peaceful groups who follow the same book. I am NOT suggesting that other religions don’t have this problem. I just know next to nothing about this matter.

I know you’re not trying to be disrespectful, so don’t worry too much over this. In my experience, users of all backgrounds here are generally understanding and kind.

 

[isu]

Hatikvah,

Thank you very much for the sources and context in relation to parts of the Quran that was quoted. It is near impossible to understand writings/events without the context. This is exactly what I was looking for in an answer.

Hopefully, I’ll get the chance to start looking at the links you provided tonight.

Also, thank you for correcting me on my last paragraph. I will try to keep it in mind that it was fulfilled rather than changed.

 

[Hatikvah]

Hatikvah,

Thank you very much for the sources and context in relation to parts of the Quran that was quoted. It is near impossible to understand writings/events without the context. This is exactly what I was looking for in an answer.

Hopefully, I’ll get the chance to start looking at the links you provided tonight.

Also, thank you for correcting me on my last paragraph. I will try to keep it in mind that it was fulfilled rather than changed.

You’re welcome! I’m always open to talking about things and I keep my eye on the Non-Catholic Religions forum above the others.

Good luck to you and your family.

 

[drac16]

It’s OK to ask with sincerity. That’s not a problem, so there’s no need to apologize.

It kind of sounds like you are referring to surah 9:29, which says to fight those who reject Allah and the Last Day. That description can only refer to the Qur’aysh, who were mostly pagan. This can be proven just by a careful exegesis. Do jews reject Allah and the Last Day? no, they believe in Allah. The Qur’an never accuses jews of worshiping a false deity. Do christians reject Allah and the Last Day? no, they believe in the Last Day. The Qur’aysh believed that Allah had physical offspring [daughters, in fact] and they did not believe in an afterlife (meaning that they rejected the concept of a Last Day). So, who fits the description of those who reject Allah and the Last Day? the Qur’ayshi pagans.

The concept of killing someone simply for being a non-muslim is a concept that appears nowhere in the Qur’an. I’m confident that just reading through the first 28 verses of surah 9 will be clear enough to show the context of verse 29. It was time to do the Hajj pilgrimage and the muslims wanted to do so, but they had to go to Mecca to do it. Mecca, at the time, was ruled by the Qur’aysh, who largely wanted to kill the muslims. Permission was given to the muslims to defend themselves if they needed to.

Remember, Mecca is sacred ground, so you were not allowed to fight (and that continues on even today). The muslims had reason to believe that some of the Qur’aysh had broken a peace treaty, so permission was given to the muslims to defend themselves during the Hajj pilgrimage. For any other member of the Qur’aysh, though, the peace treaty was still binding, meaning that the muslims were forbidden to attack them in any way (see surah 9:4).

So, what does surah 9:29 mean when it says to fight those who reject Allah and the Last Day? it means to defend yourself against the pagans who broke the peace treaty [between muslims and pagans] and wanted to kill the muslims during the Hajj pilgrimage. They had the right to fight the pagans that broke the treaty and wanted to kill them.

Life is sacred. One cannot take a life just because someone happens to not be a muslim. If that had been the case, Islam would have died in its infancy.

 

[isu]

Drac16,

Thank you for that beautiful response. I have never heard of the Hajj pilgrimage. It gives me a point in history to read more about along with the verses that connect to it.

In relation to your first paragraph, it sounds like Jews and Christians also believe in Allah but they just call Him by a different name. Is this correct?

That is a very good point you brought up that if it was okay to murder then the religion would have died long ago. It makes a lot of sense.

 

[drac16]

Drac16,

Thank you for that beautiful response. I have never heard of the Hajj pilgrimage. It gives me a point in history to read more about along with the verses that connect to it.

In relation to your first paragraph, it sounds like Jews and Christians also believe in Allah but they just call Him by a different name. Is this correct?

That is a very good point you brought up that if it was okay to murder then the religion would have died long ago. It makes a lot of sense.

You’re welcome. I am convinced that jews believe in Allah, but christians do not. Christians believe in the Trinity, which is very different from what muslims and jews believe. Muslims and jews both believe that God is a single divine Person and that He has no physical image.

 

[JimmyDFG]

You’re welcome. I am convinced that jews believe in Allah, but christians do not. Christians believe in the Trinity, which is very different from what muslims and jews believe. Muslims and jews both believe that God is a single divine Person and that He has no physical image.

The three Abrahamic religions are Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Abrahamic religions, emphasizing and tracing their common origin to the tribal patriarch Abraham

We see in John 8:54-58
54 Are you greater than our father Abraham,who died? Or the prophets, who died? Who do you make yourself out to be?”

54 Jesus answered, “If I glorify myself, my glory is worth nothing; but it is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God.

55 You do not know him, but I know him. And if I should say that I do not know him, I would be like you a liar. But I do know him and I keep his word.g

56 Abraham your father rejoiced to see my day; he saw it and was glad.h

57 So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old and you have seen Abraham?”

58 Jesus said to them,i “Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham came to be, I AM.”

Jesus spoke of Abraham and the connection between the two. Jesus also said in John 14:9 “… Whoever has seen me has seen the Father…” Christians have a connection with the Old Testament as it says in the Catechism of the Catholic Church…

129 Christians therefore read the Old Testament in the light of Christ crucified and risen. Such typological reading discloses the inexhaustible content of the Old Testament; but it must not make us forget that the Old Testament retains its own intrinsic value as Revelation reaffirmed by our Lord himself. Besides, the New Testament has to be read in the light of the Old. Early Christian catechesis made constant use of the Old Testament.As an old saying put it, the New Testament lies hidden in the Old and the Old Testament is unveiled in the New

 

[SalamKhan]

You’re welcome. I am convinced that jews believe in Allah, but christians do not. Christians believe in the Trinity, which is very different from what muslims and jews believe. Muslims and jews both believe that God is a single divine Person and that He has no physical image.

Ash`ari Islam, which is now widely considered orthodox, taught the seven sifat of essence. There were Muslims who initially reacted negatively to this teaching, saying:

“The Christians believe in three, you believe in seven…”

Christians do not believe that God has a physical image. In Christian doctrine, Christ’s humanity is not God Himself, but is substantially united to the Word of God. Christ’s humanity and divinity are united, similar to how our own spiritual souls are united to our matter (flesh).