Question on posture

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Many parishes across the country have taken up the practice of reciting the Prayer to St. Michael after the final blessing and before the final hymn. Our parish follows the example of our pastor to kneel when reciting the St. Michael prayer. However, when we have a visiting priest, depending on the priest, some remain standing. So in such cases, the Deacon and altar servers also remain standing. Most of the congregation (with the exception of one or sometimes up to about 10 or so) will kneel because that is what our pastor does- or because that is how it is usually done in our parish. My question is: What is the* proper *posture for the congregation to follow in situations like this, when the presiding priest and those in the sanctuary remain standing? This is not a “What would you do” question. My question is an attempt to get at the proper posture to follow.
 
Since this is prayer outside of a liturgical function (the Mass is over after the final blessing), I am not sure there is any proper posture.

Common courtesy as I have been taught is to stand if Father is standing and kneel if he is kneeling. No harm, no foul either way.
 
In our diocese in the US, the norm was to kneel for those prayers after the Low Mass {1962 Missal}. We still do kneel for such at the EF form - but do not have those prayers said after the OF.
 
M-Dent said:
In our diocese in the US, the norm was to kneel for those prayers after the Low Mass {1962 Missal}. We still do kneel for such at the EF form - but do not have those prayers said after the OF.
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The question is referring to what do you do when the presiding priest , deacon and altar servers remain standing.
 
TheDoctor said:
Since this is prayer outside of a liturgical function (the Mass is over after the final blessing), I am not sure there is any proper posture.

Common courtesy as I have been taught is to stand if Father is standing and kneel if he is kneeling. No harm, no foul either way.
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Thank you for your comment.
 
TheDoctor said:
Since this is prayer outside of a liturgical function (the Mass is over after the final blessing), I am not sure there is any proper posture.

Common courtesy as I have been taught is to stand if Father is standing and kneel if he is kneeling. No harm, no foul either way.
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^^^^
This, follow the Priest’s lead.
 
Nelka said:
I would love it if they prayed that prayer after Mass in my Parish.
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ditto! I want this in my parish!

to the OP - do what the priest does.

During Mass, you follow the Deacon or server’s leads, but outside Mass you follow the priest’s lead.

Rule of thumb - if someone at the altar is kneeling, you kneel too

God Bless.
 
M-Dent said:
In our diocese in the US, the norm was to kneel for those prayers after the Low Mass {1962 Missal}. We still do kneel for such at the EF form - but do not have those prayers said after the OF.
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It is prayed after the Low Mass OF in my Parish.
 
We pray the Saint Michael prayer following Mass on Sunday as well as weekdays and Holy Day’s (Washington state). I have been to Mass in Missouri where this was also done. And recently we attended several Masses at different churches in Washington D.C and the St. Michael prayer was prayed there as well.
 
Customarily, the Leonine prayers (including the St Michael Prayer) were prayed with priest, servers, and congregation kneeling after Low Mass (throughout which all save priest and servers knelt except at the Gospel). I don’t believe the 1970 Missal addresses the Leonine prayers at all, so thus previous law or custom stands. Nonetheless, it’s likely best not to stand out too much in this; it’s not a matter of grave importance.
 
bardegaulois said:
Customarily, the Leonine prayers (including the St Michael Prayer) were prayed with priest, servers, and congregation kneeling after Low Mass (throughout which all save priest and servers knelt except at the Gospel). I don’t believe the 1970 Missal addresses the Leonine prayers at all, so thus previous law or custom stands. Nonetheless, it’s likely best not to stand out too much in this; it’s not a matter of grave importance.
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This thread is not about Leonine prayers or about what was done after the Low Mass or Latin Mass. My question is only in reference to following the Mass in Ordinary Form. It may not be a matter of grave importance and it is not a matter of wanting or not wanting to stand out. It is simply a question of what is the proper rule to follow.

Let me give this example. For many years, it was proper for men to remove their hats when they entered a building. But today it is acceptable unless one is going to court where he may be asked not so nicely to remove his hat. So the rule is still in place even though it may be ignored in many places. Children are just not taught that rule of etiquette any more. So occasionally we will even see a boy or young man wear his hat in church. Today many see this as not being that important. We are just glad that he has come to church. But is there anything wrong with wanting to know what is the proper rule to follow? Now, this example is not intended to open another bag of worms. I’d just like to know what the proper thing to do is even if it is not a matter of grave importance.
 
kkollwitz said:
When in Rome-
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I would echo this or perhaps rephrase it “when in Rome follow the lead of the emperor or in his absence, the visiting emperor.” 😃

Seriously though,I think the polite and proper thing in this case would be to do whatever the celebrant of that Mass does. Some common sense and a little flexibility in some of these matters could put off the need for GIRM 2 or Vatican 3 for quite some time.
 
zab said:
This thread is not about Leonine prayers or about what was done after the Low Mass or Latin Mass. My question is only in reference to following the Mass in Ordinary Form. It may not be a matter of grave importance and it is not a matter of wanting or not wanting to stand out. It is simply a question of what is the proper rule to follow.
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Whoa, no need to get so defensive there, guy. I gave you the answer here; because the 1970 Missal (yes, that’s the Ordinary Form) does not address the posture used for the Leonine Prayers, then the rubrics of previous missals still hold the force of law. And yes, a prayer to St Michael after Mass is a Leonine Prayer. Present law no longer obliges us to use all of them or any of them. But if you are to use one of them, then kneeling is the proper posture if you want to be rubrically strict about it, as it has been since the Leonine Prayers were first mandated over a century ago.
 
bardegaulois said:
Whoa, no need to get so defensive there, guy. I gave you the answer here; because the 1970 Missal (yes, that’s the Ordinary Form) does not address the posture used for the Leonine Prayers, then the rubrics of previous missals still hold the force of law. And yes, a prayer to St Michael after Mass is a Leonine Prayer. Present law no longer obliges us to use all of them or any of them. But if you are to use one of them, then kneeling is the proper posture if you want to be rubrically strict about it, as it has been since the Leonine Prayers were first mandated over a century ago.
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Well, you are wrong on more than one thing. First of all, I am not a guy. Second: I was not on the defensive. I was pointing out that I was not referring to Mass in the Extraordinary Form. (Sorry about the bold print. It was only meant to highlight not to shout 🙂 ) As others have stated, I also have been taught from my childhood to follow the example of the priest and altar servers. If the priest presider kneels and the altar servers kneel, then we would kneel. If the priest and altar servers remain standing then we should stand. Thanks for your opinion. Looks like you are outnumbered 🙂
 
bardegaulois said:
Whoa, no need to get so defensive there, guy. I gave you the answer here; because the 1970 Missal (yes, that’s the Ordinary Form) does not address the posture used for the Leonine Prayers, then the rubrics of previous missals still hold the force of law. And yes, a prayer to St Michael after Mass is a Leonine Prayer. Present law no longer obliges us to use all of them or any of them. But if you are to use one of them, then kneeling is the proper posture if you want to be rubrically strict about it, as it has been since the Leonine Prayers were first mandated over a century ago.
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In the Ordinary Form,*the Liturgy ends with the Final Blessing, so there are no rubrics, one way or the other.

The rubrics of one form do not cross over into the other. Nor do the rubrics of the 1970 Missal apply, as a new General Instruction was issued in 2002.
 
zab said:
Well, you are wrong on more than one thing. First of all, I am not a guy. Second: I was not on the defensive. I was pointing out that I was not referring to Mass in the Extraordinary Form. (Sorry about the bold print. It was only meant to highlight not to shout 🙂 ) As others have stated, I also have been taught from my childhood to follow the example of the priest and altar servers. If the priest presider kneels and the altar servers kneel, then we would kneel. If the priest and altar servers remain standing then we should stand. Thanks for your opinion. Looks like you are outnumbered 🙂
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OK, I see; you’re not asking about the proper rubric, but instead about what you should do in this situation. That said, understand clearly that when the 1970 Missal is silent, the 1962 Missal – or the most recent Roman Missal to address this topic – still holds the force of law. Whether we’re talking EF or OF doesn’t matter; it’s still the Roman Rite. And whether you are calling this a Leonine Prayer or not doesn’t matter; it is a Leonine Prayer. A good case in point is Benediction and Exposition. Recent liturgical books have not addressed it, and thus the proper form is still one dating from before Vatican II. That council and the work of its aftermath, contrary to popular belief, did not rescind all that came before it.
 
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