Question on Pslam 69

[dnar]

Tonight at Mass Psalm 69 was read…

It is read during Holy Week as if it refers to Jesus passion. With this in mind how does the Church reconcile the following passages about Christ?

Psalm 69:5 speaks of sins committed…

If not Jesus, who is this referring to, and if not Jesus why is it read during Holy Week?

Responsorial Psalm Ps 69:8-10, 21-22, 31 and 33-34
R. (14c) Lord, in your great love, answer me.
For your sake I bear insult,
and shame covers my face.
I have become an outcast to my brothers,
a stranger to my mother’s sons,
because zeal for your house consumes me,
and the insults of those who blaspheme you fall upon me.
R. Lord, in your great love, answer me.
Insult has broken my heart, and I am weak,
I looked for sympathy, but there was none;
for consolers, not one could I find.
Rather they put gall in my food,
and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink.
R. Lord, in your great love, answer me.
I will praise the name of God in song,
and I will glorify him with thanksgiving:
“See, you lowly ones, and be glad;
you who seek God, may your hearts revive!
For the LORD hears the poor,
and his own who are in bonds he spurns not.”
R. Lord, in your great love, answer me.

 

[PrincepsAuguste]

Let’s say you were adopted by a woman, or were the son of a man who remarried to another woman. Would you consider your father’s new wife your mother, and would she consider you her son? I heard the psalm tonight too, but I don’t think that line causes any particular problems.

 

[dnar]

Let’s say you were adopted by a woman, or were the son of a man who remarried to another woman. Would you consider your father’s new wife your mother, and would she consider you her son? I heard the psalm tonight too, but I don’t think that line causes any particular problems.

So you think Joseph had other children with a different woman, and this was referring to the adopted children of Mary?

 

[bmullins]

According to Augustine it’s more about Jerusalem and the synagogue. The people there didn’t recognize Jesus even though he was not only one of them, but God himself.

“12. An alien I have become to My brethren, and a stranger to the sons of My mother Psalm 68:8. To the sons of the Synagogue He became a stranger…Why so? Why did they not acknowledge? Why did they call Him an alien? Why did they dare to say, we know not whence He is? Because the zeal of Your House has eaten Me up: that is, because I have persecuted in them their own iniquities, because I have not patiently borne those whom I have rebuked, because I have sought Your glory in Your House, because I have scourged them that in the Temple dealt unseemly: John 2:15 in which place also there is quoted, the zeal of Your House has eaten Me up. Hence an alien, hence a Stranger; hence, we know not whence He is. They would have acknowledged whence I am, if they had acknowledged that which You have commanded. For if I had found them keeping Your commandments, the zeal of Your House would not have eaten Me up. And the reproaches of men reproaching You have fallen upon Me. Of this testimony Paul the Apostle has also made use (there has been read but now the very lesson), and says, Whatsoever things aforetime have been written, have been written that we might be instructed. Romans 15:4 …Why You? Is the Father reproached, and not Christ Himself? Why have the reproaches of men reproaching You fallen upon Me? Because, he that has known Me, has known the Father also: John 14:9 because no one has reviled Christ without reviling God: because no one honours the Father, except he that honours the Son also. John 5:23”

 

[jcrichton]

Tonight at Mass Psalm 69 was read…

It is read during Holy Week as if it refers to Jesus passion. With this in mind how does the Church reconcile the following passages about Christ?

Psalm 69:5 speaks of sins committed…

If not Jesus, who is this referring to, and if not Jesus why is it read during Holy Week?

Responsorial Psalm Ps 69:8-10, 21-22, 31 and 33-34
R. (14c) Lord, in your great love, answer me.
For your sake I bear insult,
and shame covers my face.
I have become an outcast to my brothers,
a stranger to my mother’s sons,
because zeal for your house consumes me,
and the insults of those who blaspheme you fall upon me.
R. Lord, in your great love, answer me.
Insult has broken my heart, and I am weak,
I looked for sympathy, but there was none;
for consolers, not one could I find.
Rather they put gall in my food,
and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink.
R. Lord, in your great love, answer me.
I will praise the name of God in song,
and I will glorify him with thanksgiving:
“See, you lowly ones, and be glad;
you who seek God, may your hearts revive!
For the LORD hears the poor,
and his own who are in bonds he spurns not.”
R. Lord, in your great love, answer me.

5 God, you know how foolish I am, my offences are not hidden from you. (NJB)

5 You, God, know my folly;
my guilt is not hidden from you. (NIV)

…both of the renditions above do not demonstrate that there’s a committed sin; rather they basically express that God can see to that person’s innermost being and can know if he has committed any transgressions against Him.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[PrincepsAuguste]

So you think Joseph had other children with a different woman, and this was referring to the adopted children of Mary?

That is what I believe. Otherwise, Mary wouldn’t be a virgin.

 

[Nita]

Tonight at Mass Psalm 69 was read…

It is read during Holy Week as if it refers to Jesus passion. With this in mind how does the Church reconcile the following passages about Christ?

Psalm 69:5 speaks of sins committed…

If not Jesus, who is this referring to, and if not Jesus why is it read during Holy Week?

Responsorial Psalm Ps 69:8-10, 21-22, 31 and 33-34
R. (14c) Lord, in your great love, answer me.
For your sake I bear insult,
and shame covers my face.
I have become an outcast to my brothers,
a stranger to my mother’s sons,
because zeal for your house consumes me,
and the insults of those who blaspheme you fall upon me.
R. Lord, in your great love, answer me.
Insult has broken my heart, and I am weak,
I looked for sympathy, but there was none;
for consolers, not one could I find.
Rather they put gall in my food,
and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink.
…

Since you bolded only one line, I’m going to assume that’s the line you would like explained – that is, how it can be understood in a way that does not contradict Church teaching regarding Mary’s virginity.

1. “Mother” could be referring to the Jewish nation/religion. Therefore, “mother’s sons” would be referring to Our Lord’s fellow Israelites (eg. Mt. 8:12) - and perhaps in a special way, to their spiritual leaders.
2. In Psalm 69, some words are applicable to the specific time of the crucifixion (eg. gall and vinegar). On the cross, Jesus gave Mary to John as his mother. The Church has always interpreted this as applying not only to John, but to all disciples of Jesus. Mary is mother of the Church - mother to all the members, but most especially to the priests.

On the cross, Jesus had been abandoned by all the apostles except John; and there were only a few others of His followers who remained with Him.

Psalm 45 is a psalm I’ve always found very meaningful in regards to the role God appointed for Mary in the New Covenant. Psalm 45 is seen as applying to both Mary and the Church.

Ps 45:9-17 … at your right hand stands the queen in gold of Ophir. Hear, O daughter, consider, and incline your ear; forget your people and your father’s house; and the king will desire your beauty. … ** Instead of your fathers shall be your sons; you will make them princes in all the earth. I will cause your name to be celebrated in all generations; therefore the peoples will praise you for ever and ever. **
(Recall that the Jews called Abraham their “father”. (eg. Mt. 3:9; Lk 16:30)

 

[chosen_people]

Tonight at Mass Psalm 69 was read…

It is read during Holy Week as if it refers to Jesus passion. With this in mind how does the Church reconcile the following passages about Christ?

Psalm 69:5 speaks of sins committed…

If not Jesus, who is this referring to, and if not Jesus why is it read during Holy Week?

Responsorial Psalm Ps 69:8-10, 21-22, 31 and 33-34
R. (14c) Lord, in your great love, answer me.
For your sake I bear insult,
and shame covers my face.
I have become an outcast to my brothers,
a stranger to my mother’s sons,
because zeal for your house consumes me,
and the insults of those who blaspheme you fall upon me.
R. Lord, in your great love, answer me.
Insult has broken my heart, and I am weak,
I looked for sympathy, but there was none;
for consolers, not one could I find.
Rather they put gall in my food,
and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink.
R. Lord, in your great love, answer me.
I will praise the name of God in song,
and I will glorify him with thanksgiving:
“See, you lowly ones, and be glad;
you who seek God, may your hearts revive!
For the LORD hears the poor,
and his own who are in bonds he spurns not.”
R. Lord, in your great love, answer me.

Psalm 69:9
מוּזָר, הָיִיתִי לְאֶחָי; וְנָכְרִי, לִבְנֵי אִמִּי
I became a stranger to my brothers, and an alien to my mother’s sons

This refers to Ishmael and Esau and their descendants