Question on salvation of non-Catholics

  • Thread starter Thread starter Flack
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
F

Flack

Guest
Hey guys,

I’m looking for some help on this. Is there any official Church teaching that explains what happens to those people who are not Catholic but live their lives helping others and generally being really good, kind people when they die.

Personally, I don’t want to believe that all non-Catholics are sent to Hell straight away, regardless of how they lived their lives, but I could be wrong.

Any help is greatly apprecuated 🙂

-Flack
 
Hey guys,

I’m looking for some help on this. Is there any official Church teaching that explains what happens to those people who are not Catholic but live their lives helping others and generally being really good, kind people when they die.

Personally, I don’t want to believe that all non-Catholics are sent to Hell straight away, regardless of how they lived their lives, but I could be wrong.

Any help is greatly apprecuated 🙂

-Flack
The Catechism does not say, anywhere in it, that any one individual or group of individuals is going to Hell. That judgement is left to the Almighty.

The Catechism does state that baptism is necessary for salvation.
 
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
“Outside the Church there is no salvation”
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337
848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338
Hope that helps! 🙂
 
Hey guys,

I’m looking for some help on this. Is there any official Church teaching that explains what happens to those people who are not Catholic but live their lives helping others and generally being really good, kind people when they die.

Personally, I don’t want to believe that all non-Catholics are sent to Hell straight away, regardless of how they lived their lives, but I could be wrong.

Any help is greatly apprecuated 🙂

-Flack
Well, there is an official Biblical teaching on what happens to those who personally trust (believe) in the Person and work of Jesus Christ (His substitutionary, sin sacrifice on the cross) for their eternal redemption. Which has far greater authority than any opinion of mere men. They are given eternal (everlasting) life and will not perish, i.e., be condemned to Hell (see John 3:14-18). That even though ALL have sinned and fall short of God’s glory, those individuals who trust (personally believe) in Christ’s sacrificial work on their behalf are “justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Chrsit Jesus” (Rom. 3:23-24).

Not entering Hell has nothing to do with how good or kind YOU are, or one’s religious affiliation (“Catholic” or not), but the goodness of God toward all sinners who turn from personal unbelief to personal belief in His Son whom He did not spare “but delivered Him up for us all” and now through Him *freely *gives us all things (Rom. 8:32; cf. Eph. 2:8-10).

Ah, the beauty and simplicity of the Gospel message. 🙂
 
Well, there is an official Biblical teaching on what happens to those who personally trust (believe) in the Person and work of Jesus Christ (His substitutionary, sin sacrifice on the cross) for their eternal redemption. Which has far greater authority than any opinion of mere men.
If I read the OP’s question correctly, he was asking for the teaching of the *Church *that Christ established 2000 years ago for just that purpose, not a recent innovation based on fallible personal interpretation of the Bible. Thanks anyway.🙂
 
If I read the OP’s question correctly, he was asking for the teaching of the *Church *that Christ established 2000 years ago for just that purpose, not a recent innovation based on fallible personal interpretation of the Bible. Thanks anyway.🙂
Ah the beauty and simplicity of the Truth.
 
If I read the OP’s question correctly, he was asking for the teaching of the *Church *that Christ established 2000 years ago for just that purpose, not a recent innovation based on fallible personal interpretation of the Bible. Thanks anyway.🙂
The Scriptures, and their message of salvation by grace through faith in Christ alone, came long before the idea of ecclesiastical salvation and even the idea of an “infallible” magisterium.

Your church cannot provide an answer to his question as to who will enter Hell, but the Scriptures do, unequivocally, provide us with the only way one can enter Heaven (Jn. 14:6; Acts 4:12). And this is the question God Himself answers (infallibly) in His written Word (Acts 16:30-31).John 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."To fully understand who IS going to Heaven, based soley on Biblical revelation (not the opinions of men), helps one to understand who is not, and based on what divine criterion, what divine standard.Phil 3:9 "…and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from {the} Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which {comes} from God on the basis of faith,
 
The Scriptures, and their message of salvation by grace through faith in Christ alone, came long before the idea of ecclesiastical salvation and even the idea of an “infallible” magisterium.
That statement is false, sorry aph.

The infallible Magisterium existed before the bible and before the collections of letters and accounts of Christ’s life were approved by the same infallible Magisterium as scriptural. History proves this without question.

You seem to be adding to the account that salvation is based on God’s grace thru faith. Notice that there is no “alone” in that statement.
 
Your church cannot provide an answer to his question as to who will enter Hell, but the Scriptures do, unequivocally, provide us with the only way one can enter Heaven
I think that Paul would argue with you:

(Phi 2:12) Wherefore, my dearly beloved, (as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only but much more now in my absence)** with fear and trembling work out your salvation**.

That sounds to me like there is more to salvation than Sole Fide. This is EXACTLY why Jesus set up a hierarchy to guide his Church. Peter and his successors…i.e. the Magisterium!
 
Baptism, or the desire for it is required for salvation (the desire can be explicit or implicit.) Basically, if someone truly desires all that is necessary for their salvation and they are not judged at fault for not proclaiming the fullness of the Catholic faith, they may still be saved.

St. Alphonsus Liguouri, who is a Doctor of the Church, explains it well:

**St. Alphonsus Liguori (1691-1787) Moral Theology - (Bk. 6): “But baptism of desire is perfect conversion to God by contrition or love of God above all things accompanied by an explicit or implicit desire for true Baptism of water, the place of which it takes as to the remission of guilt, but not as to the impression of the [baptismal] character or as to the removal of all debt of punishment. It is called ‘of wind’ ‘flaminis’] because it takes place by the impulse of the Holy Ghost Who is called a wind ‘flamen’]. Now it is de fide that men are also saved by Baptism of desire, by virtue of the Canon ‘Apostolicam De Presbytero Non Baptizato’ and the Council of Trent, Session 6, Chapter 4, where it is said that no one can be saved *‘without the laver of regeneration or the desire for it.’” *
 
Sean Boyle:
Quoting Apophasis:

"The Scriptures, and their message of salvation by grace through faith in Christ alone, came long before the idea of ecclesiastical salvation and even the idea of an “infallible” magisterium.
Sean retorts:

That statement is false, sorry aph.

The infallible Magisterium existed before the bible and before the collections of letters and accounts of Christ’s life were approved by the same infallible Magisterium as scriptural. History proves this without question.

You seem to be adding to the account that salvation is based on God’s grace thru faith. Notice that there is no “alone” in that statement.Scripture emphatically teaches that salvation is by sovereign grace (unmerited, divine favor) toward the one who puts his faith/trust in Christ alone. It explicitly teaches, “…not as a result of works, that no one should boast” (Eph. 2:8-9). The saved are “created in Christ Jesus FOR good works” (Eph. 2:10), but never do the Scriptures state that the believer is saved or created in Christ Jesus BY those good works.

No, I add nothing to the Scriptural account of salvation. To the contrary, you who add works (of any kind) to saving faith distort that “gospel” of faith, to which Paul (the champion of divine grace) dedicated a whole letter to refute this notion (the Book of Galatians).
 
Sean Boyle:
The infallible Magisterium existed before the bible and before the collections of letters and accounts of Christ’s life were approved by the same infallible Magisterium as scriptural. History proves this without question.
Actually, history does not bear out nor testify to a so-called “infallible” magesterium existing before the Bible, and which jburgherr states in his message to be “Peter and his successors” (based on RC dogma). To the contrary, history shows us that such a notion was a post-Apostolic, time developed, human assertion, rooted in the struggle for power between the Western and Eastern church.

We know from Scripture that Peter himself was at least twice strongly rebuked, first by Christ Himself and then by Paul.

Right after Peter was called “blessed” by Jesus for his testimony of Christ being the Messiah, Son of the living God, and that this truth was revealed to him directly by God, he blatantly demonstrated his fallibility by contradicting, even rebuking, Christ, and totally not understanding God’s salvation program through the death of the same Messiah God had just revealed to him.

Peter was correct on one point but erred terribly on another (Matt. 16:21-23). Hardly a demonstration of infallibility. And ironically, all within the same context by which Rome claims its Papal Authority over the whole Church.

Paul tells us how he had to publicly rebuke Peter for his blatant hypocrisy regarding the faith, not being straightforward about the truth of the Gospel, even compelling the Gentiles live like Jews, i.e., under the Law (salvation by works, Gal. 2:12-14).

So we see that before Pentecost and after Pentecost (the coming of the Holy Spirit) Peter demonstrated fallibility. So if Peter was certainly fallible, what more could we say for his so-called “successors” who claim their “infallibility” based on him.

As for history:

Calixtus I (218-223) was the first to based his claim on Matt. 16:18. However, there is absolutely no historical evidence that Peter made such a claim regarding his Apostleship. Nor has it has ever been historically proven that Peter ever was “Bishop” of the church at Rome.

The Council of Nicaea (385) accorded the Bishop of Alexandria and Antioch full jurisdiction over their Provinces, as the Roman Bishop has over his. No hint to their being subject to Rome, or its Bishop, at that time.

It was Siricius (385-398) who first claimed Universal Jurisdiction over the Church, but the East never recognized his self-proclamation.

Innocent I (402-417) called himself “Ruler of the Church of God,” and claimed the right to settle the more important matters in the whole Church. But his claim was never recognized by all the churches in the Empire.

Leo I (440-461) made the assertion that he was, by divine appointment, Primate of all Bishops, Lord of the Whole Church, Exclusive Universal Papacy and that resistance to his authority was a sure way to Hell. But the Ecumenical Council of Chalcedon (451) totally ignored those boasts and gave the Patriarch of Constantinople equal prerogatives with the Bishop of Rome.

Leo II (682-683) even pronounced the previous Pope Honorius I a heretic.

Nicolas I (858-867) was the first Pope to wear a crown. He interfered in the affairs of the Eastern church, excommunicated Photius (then Patriarch of Constantinople), who in turn excommunicated him.

Up to A.D. 869 all Ecumenical Councils had been held in or near Constantinople and in the Greek language. But the Roman Bishop’s claim to be Lord of Christendom had become too unbearable and the East definitely separated itself. In fact, to this day the Eastern Orthodox church calls the Roman Pope the first “Protestant.” Hence, the last Ecumenical Council was the Council of Constantinople in 869. From then on the Greek church had its councils and the Roman church its own. And never was the claim to “infallibility” by he Roman Pope or Rome’s “Magesterium” ever unanimously recognized by the whole, visible church - and rightly so. This was strictly a Western development based on the assertions of western Bishops. And the RC dogma of Papal Infallibility did not become official until 1870.

So you see, neither Scripture, Ecumenical Council, or history bears out Rome’s claim to “infallibility” or Authority over the whole Body of Christ. Such was the assertion of mere men, yes, but the Scriptures taught from the beginning that the Church has only one Head - the resurrected and glorified Christ:Col 1:18 “He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.”
 
To the OP’er: I am reading von Balthasar’s Can we hope? right now. It deals specifically with your question. He is a Catholic theologian, and you should be able to find a copy of the book online or at your local library.

-BT
 
I have been having a conversation with a non Catholic about this. I have been told that a non catholic, maybe someone who lives ina small villiage in nowhere who has no knowledge of Jesus can go to heaven through no fault of their own. Is this correct? I know that we are also told that as catholics we are held to a higher standard if you will because we have the truth.

Help me out here.
 
As you can see above many non-catholics believe in the common lie that Catholics somehow earn their way into Heaven.

This is a bald faced lie and contrary to the Bible\Catholic faith. Most commonly the anti-biblical statement of Faith Alone is used, which blasphemes the Word of God and is only slightly useful, if twisted to be understood as a faith which includes an obedience of works. Which, is taking an insufficient statement and twisting it to pretty much teach what Catholics believe, that we are saved by God’s Grace Alone, by faith working through love.

Since our faith comes from Jesus we can understand the Bible by looking at it by the faith that Jesus gave us, not from the Bible to understand Jesus. That is illogical and silly.
(I can explain why that is silly if you like)

Now, by the Scriptures, we can see that very few will actually be saved, probably much fewer than we can imagine, as true faith in Christ involves radically changing your life to follow Him.
Not just professing belief, but seeking and submitting to His will to be done.

It is easy to be Saved, but even easier to reject God and let pride, selfishness and sin prevail in keeping us from staying faithful to Him or even submitting to Him.

In Christ
Scylla
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top