Question on Sheep

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demerzel85

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Well in class this week, my Prof brought up the point about there being gay sheep to illustrate that when someone brings out an argument that something is ‘natural’ or ‘unnatural’ its an ideological argument. He also joked about the Sheperd and Sheep concepts held by the Catholic Church.

How should one respond?
 
Sheep, dogs, cats and other animals can also have many other diseases that humans do (diabetes, epilepsy, heart disease, etc). That does not make these disorders any less disordered.
 
I have bred horses and dogs for a number of years. Male animals
that show no interest in females usually have been very strongly
disciplined as young animals for their natural interest. They
will then show fear or no interest at all. However, good handling
and careful training usually brings back their natural feelings.
Any animal that was truely not interested in the opposite sex
would, of course, die out. It is not natural in animals. Although,
young animals may try to breed with same sex partners in an
attempt to learn what it is all about. Mature animals rarely do
that even in play. Females covering females is seen in cows
and some sheep but it may be a domant things more than a
sex thing. I’d say your professor has the problem, not the sheep.
 
Well I wanted itto be just one of those nonsensical attack, but checked up wikipedia and it had this…

“Homosexual behaviour in male sheep (found in 6–10% of rams) is associated with variations in cerebral mass distribution and chemical activity. A study reported in Endocrinology concluded that biological factors are in play; this study replicated similar findings in humans. It shows that approximately 10% of males exhibit male sexual preference, and that the brains of these males are different.”

The scientific study is found here: endo.endojournals.org/cgi/reprint/145/2/478.pdf

Surely there must be some way to do apologetics on this that the secular world can engage in.
 
Well in class this week, my Prof brought up the point about there being gay sheep to illustrate that when someone brings out an argument that something is ‘natural’ or ‘unnatural’ its an ideological argument. He also joked about the Sheperd and Sheep concepts held by the Catholic Church.

How should one respond?
A physical inclination to something does not make it right. Ethics and morals are some of what seperates us from the animal kingdom. Having said that, though, there are also many animal parents who do a better job than some of their human counterparts!
 
“Homosexual behaviour in male sheep (found in 6–10% of rams) is associated with variations in cerebral mass distribution and chemical activity. A study reported in Endocrinology concluded that biological factors are in play; this study replicated similar findings in humans. It shows that approximately 10% of males exhibit male sexual preference, and that the brains of these males are different.”
The study seems suspect to me, or at least the conclusions it makes about humans. From what I’ve seen I seriously doubt 1 in every ten males deals with same sex attraction.
 
Well I wanted itto be just one of those nonsensical attack, but checked up wikipedia and it had this…

“Homosexual behaviour in male sheep (found in 6–10% of rams) is associated with variations in cerebral mass distribution and chemical activity. A study reported in Endocrinology concluded that biological factors are in play; this study replicated similar findings in humans. It shows that approximately 10% of males exhibit male sexual preference, and that the brains of these males are different.”

The scientific study is found here: endo.endojournals.org/cgi/reprint/145/2/478.pdf

Surely there must be some way to do apologetics on this that the secular world can engage in.
Yeah, and I bet if scientists did a study of the brains of serial killers, there would be evidence that their brains work differently, too (actually I think there was a study that comfirmed that)! Murder and homosexual behavior are both sins, it doesn’t matter what science may say.

Not to jump on you or anything, I know the info you found wasn’t what you hoped it would be.
 
If I were you I’d write your professor a nice note explaining how he is simply wrong to cite the behaviors of sheep (or any other animal) to demonstrate how human beings ought to act (as the other posters have pointed out so well). Also, I’d remind him that prejudice is not acceptable against any group of people even if he thinks so, and that tasteless jokes have no place in modern education.
 
I’d contact academic affairs and let them know about your professor’s comments about Catholics. Imagine if he would make a comment about Muslims.
 
The other posters have hit the nail on the head. Just because something occurs “naturally” doesn’t mean that it’s “natural”, strictly speaking. Down’s Syndrome occurs naturally, but it’s not “natural” – it’s a genetic defect, that we’re right in trying to eliminate. (Granted, there are many moral objections to which methods are permissible, but that’s beside the point.)

Naturally, the olfactory system is used for smelling. Can you receive nutrition through the nasal cavity? Sure! But that’s not “natural” - it’s a deviation from the norm, or “abnormal”. Naturally, the digestive system is used for digestion and the reproductive system is used for…wait for it…reproduction. Big surprise. To use our natural systems in ways they’re not designed to operate is to mis-use the systems. It’s not unlike bulimia (or the Roman vomitoriums of old) - the proponents want to use the digestive system to give you the pleasure of eating but without the nutrition. It’s rightly condemned, because it’s not the function for which the digestive system was designed. Similarly, using the reproductive system (combined with segments of the digestive tract) in a way for which they’re not designed is to **mis-**use them. It’s rightly called “unnatural”, even if there are naturally occurring disorders which pre-dispose the adherents to the contrary.

Need an atheist to say it? How about this:

Sigmund Freud, who had little sympathy for religion of any kind, wrote: “. . . it is a characteristic common to all the perversions that in them reproduction as an aim is put aside. This is actually the criterion by which we judge whether a sexual activity is perverse - if it departs from reproduction in its aims and pursues the attainment of gratification independently… Everything that… serves the pursuit of gratification alone is called by the unhonored title of ‘perversion’ and as such is despised.”

Part of what you need to understand is the difference between nature and Natural Law (which is not necessarily religion-based, BTW). Natural Law describes how humans naturally and properly interact, as governed by reason and morals. Nature describes the state in which we find things without reason or morals. Be clear on your terms; Natural Law condemns homosexual acts, while nature simply shows what happens to animals/plants divorced from reason/morality.

From the sound of it, your professor is either a subjectivist or a relativist. You might ask him if the Holocaust was “wrong”, or if it’s “wrong” to cheat on your wife. If you can establish that objective morality exists, Natural Law holds sway and the homosexual acts are rightly condemned. If he refuses objective morality, ask again if it’s okay to torture innocent children for fun – to be consistent, he has to say that there’s nothing “wrong” with it.

Further reading: Homosexuality.

Hope that helps.

God Bless,
RyanL
 
It seems this professor has a low opinion of homosexuals by likening them to beasts of the field. Asserting that because a sheep cannot control it’s actions means that a human can do likewise is a childish argument for an educated person. 🙂
 
It seems this professor has a low opinion of homosexuals by likening them to beasts of the field. Asserting that because a sheep cannot control it’s actions means that a human can do likewise is a childish argument for an educated person. 🙂
Just FYI, I’m going to have to steal that quote from you 🙂
 
Part of what you need to understand is the difference between nature and Natural Law (which is not necessarily religion-based, BTW). Natural Law describes how humans naturally and properly interact, as governed by reason and morals. Nature describes the state in which we find things without reason or morals. Be clear on your terms; Natural Law condemns homosexual acts, while nature simply shows what happens to animals/plants divorced from reason/morality.

From the sound of it, your professor is either a subjectivist or a relativist. You might ask him if the Holocaust was “wrong”, or if it’s “wrong” to cheat on your wife. If you can establish that objective morality exists, Natural Law holds sway and the homosexual acts are rightly condemned. If he refuses objective morality, ask again if it’s okay to torture innocent children for fun – to be consistent, he has to say that there’s nothing “wrong” with it.
Its a bit difficult to gauge the exact personal views of the Prof at times, as they do cloak their statements with a level of ambiguity that allows it to go both ways. Yet part of the problem is because the Prof is teaching ‘Cultural Theory’ and in context he was teaching about the advantages and disadvantages that ‘hierarchists’ have and how they operate.

The thing about sheep being gay and the Church using Sheperd-Sheep terminology was a passing remark with regard primarily to a top-down approach not being 100% effective or efficient. Then came the joke about if the followers are termed sheep, then its natural that some are gay since some sheep naturally are gay.

Its true that an occurance in nature does not necessarily equate to it being natural. Yet the problem is in context, it was only a very minor point that he’s making. My personal gut feeling that he’s a relativist.
 
Original sin has affected the whole of God’s creation. When humans fell, we brought the rest of the world into a fallen state as well. So, the animal kingdom may well be acting, at times, in a manner that is unnatural for them.
But sheep (or whatever animals) cannot control their behaviour; we can.
I just think it’s pretty sad that someone would make this kind of remark. Teachers ought,IMHO, to know better. (But, of course, they were affected by sin as well…)
 
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