Question on St. Augustine quote

[coolcatholicguy]

I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church. - St. Augustine

Isn’t this a little backwards, and maybe even a sinful thing to say? For the very existence of the Catholic Church is in and through the Gospel. The Catholic Church’s very authority comes from the Gospel I saw this quote on the Catholic Answers website and am a little disturbed.

Your thoughts?

 

[joanofarc2008]

Am I correct in believing that you are talking about “Roma locuta est, causa finita est.” This is a bit different from the way you have explained - but if this is what you are thinking of this may be a good place to start the discussion.

“Roma locuta est, causa finita est.” -St Augustine

 

[Aelred_Minor]

I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church. - St. Augustine

Isn’t this a little backwards, and maybe even a sinful thing to say? For the very existence of the Catholic Church is in and through the Gospel. The Catholic Church’s very authority comes from the Gospel I saw this quote on the Catholic Answers website and am a little disturbed.

Your thoughts?

The point is, how would you know what the Gospel is except by the authoritative teaching of the Catholic Church? It is from the authority of the Catholic Church that we know what is Apostolic Tradition, and what it means to be Apostolic Tradition, including what books are Sacred Scripture, what it means for them to be Sacred Scripture. And it is through this same Church authority that we know how Scripture and Tradition should be interpreted. Without all that, what is there that could be believed?

 

[coolcatholicguy]

No, I am not talking about that, here is the full verse:

“If you should find someone who does not yet believe in the gospel, what would you [Mani] answer him when he says, ‘I do not believe’? Indeed, I would not believe in the gospel myself if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so”

 

[joanofarc2008]

No, I am not talking about that, here is the full verse:

“If you should find someone who does not yet believe in the gospel, what would you [Mani] answer him when he says, ‘I do not believe’? Indeed, I would not believe in the gospel myself if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so”

OK something you need to remember - there were many different Books written for the Bible. Not all of them were Canonized into the Bible. Some were repetitive. Some were downright heretical. (Frankly lets not be gnostic about it.) It was the Catholic Church that took this oral tradition and did Canonize the Bible. It was not that the Bible existed before the Church - with the exception of parts of the Old Testament such as the Torah.

This is one of the reasons that Protestants have seven less books in the Bible. But this may be a story for another day.

It was the authority of the only Christian Church - the Catholic Church (which the Orthodox would later split off of at the Council of Nicea (I may be wrong on this exact Council)) through a series of Councils which Canonized the exact Bible as we know it today.

I hope this makes part of this quote clear whereas I think some others with more experience will make it even more clear.

God bless.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church. - St. Augustine

Isn’t this a little backwards, and maybe even a sinful thing to say? For the very existence of the Catholic Church is in and through the Gospel. The Catholic Church’s very authority comes from the Gospel I saw this quote on the Catholic Answers website and am a little disturbed.

Your thoughts?

Hmm, it seems to me that you are trying to say that the Church is a product of the Bible.

This is backwards. The Bible is the product of the Church.

Without the authority of the Catholic Church we would not know what the Gospel is.

 

[joanofarc2008]

Hmm, it seems to me that you are trying to say that the Church is a product of the Bible.

This is backwards. The Bible is the product of the Church.

Without the authority of the Catholic Church we would not know what the Gospel is.

OK that is what I was trying to say - man I need to go back to Franciscan 101 when a Carmellite can outdo me for simplicity. LOL.I went way over-complicated.

 

[holstein21]

I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church. - St. Augustine

Isn’t this a little backwards, and maybe even a sinful thing to say? For the very existence of the Catholic Church is in and through the Gospel. The Catholic Church’s very authority comes from the Gospel I saw this quote on the Catholic Answers website and am a little disturbed.

Your thoughts?

The existence of the Catholic Church is through Jesus. Jesus founded the Church. St. Augustine is merely pointing out that the Gospels, as well as all the books of the Bible, are considered inspired and infallible, and therefore to be taken as the Word of God, because the Church declared it so. The authority of the Catholic Church Augustine speaks of was given to the Church from Jesus. Remember, the first generations of the Christians did not even have a Bible because the Church was founded before the books of the New Testament were even written. Also remember that Church set the Biblical Canon, so therefore, the Bible did not produce the Church, the Church produced the Bible.

 

[Dale_M]

The quote seems to come from St. Augustine’s Against the Letter of Mani Called 'The Foundation, which is a response to a Manichean document.

Here is a bit more of the quote, which puts the sentence into context.

[T]here are many other things which most properly can keep me in [the Catholic Church’s] bosom. The unanimity of peoples and nations keeps me here. Her authority, inaugurated in miracles, nourished by hope, augmented by love, and confirmed by her age, keeps me here. The succession of priests, from the very see of the Apostle Peter, to whom the Lord, after his resurrection, gave the charge of feeding his sheep [John 21:15-17], up to the present episcopate, keeps me here. And last, the very name Catholic, which, not without reason, belongs to this Church alone, in the face of so many heretics, so much so that, although all heretics want to be called ‘Catholic,’ when a stranger inquires where the Catholic Church meets, none of the heretics would dare to point out his own basilica or house”

If you should find someone who does not yet believe in the gospel what would you [Mani] answer him when he says, “I do not believe”? Indeed, I would not believe the gospel myself if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.

books.google.com/books?id=rkvLsueY_DwC&pg=PR12&lpg=PR12&dq=augustine+%22Against+the+Letter+of+Mani+Called+%27The+Foundation%22&source=bl&ots=hinjYdUoxK&sig=tBNiqFqzZJJGG4cCCK0flvrARZQ&hl=en&ei=_YgWTsHdDOqnsAL7lulG&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CGcQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=augustine%20%22Against%20the%20Letter%20of%20Mani%20Called%20%27The%20Foundation%22&f=false
(page 51)

As others have pointed out, the Gospels did not fall out of the sky. They were crafted and selected by the Church. So, no, St. Augustine doesn’t have it backwards.

 

[coolcatholicguy]

So basically Acts and the letters of Paul tell the coming about of the Catholic Church, and from there the Church selected the four Gospels that would best proclaim their message and were absolutely true with no mistakes.

Do I have it right?

 

[joanofarc2008]

So basically Acts and the letters of Paul tell the coming about of the Catholic Church, and from there the Church selected the four Gospels that would best proclaim their message and were absolutely true with no mistakes.

Do I have it right?

That is a very, very basic way of putting it.

Start here

History of the Old Testament

History of the New Testament

Notice that within these links there are links so if you have any questions feel free to click and search - I think you will find what you are looking for.