Question on the appointment of the pope

[queenofpeace]

I WAS IN A DIALOGUE W/ A N-C ON ANOTHER BOARD AND OUR DISCUSSION WENT LIKE THIS:

*N-C: Who appointed the pope?

ME: THE 1ST POPE WAS PETER, APPOINTED BY JESUS (MT 16: 15-19)…& & SO ON & SO FORT…HOW ABOUT YOURS…WHO APPOINTED YOUR HEAD or WHATEVER YOU CALL YOURS!?

N-C: Ephesians 4:11So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. DID YOU SEE ANY POPE OR PRIEST ON A LIST?*

DID I GIVE A RIGHT ANSWER & HOW AM I GOING TO RESPOND?

 

[DavidFilmer]

DID YOU SEE ANY POPE OR PRIEST ON A LIST?

Is he looking for the word “pope” or the “word” priest, or is he looking for their job description? Because that’s what Paul gave us - a job description, not a title. What we call these people is irrelevant (and has changed over time - the word “Pope” does not mean now what it meant in the early days).

 

[queenofpeace]

Is he looking for the word “pope” or the “word” priest, or is he looking for their job description? Because that’s what Paul gave us - a job description, not a title. What we call these people is irrelevant (and has changed over time - the word “Pope” does not mean now what it meant in the early days).

He’s looking for the word “pope & priest”…

 

[MrSnaith]

I WAS IN A DIALOGUE W/ A N-C ON ANOTHER BOARD AND OUR DISCUSSION WENT LIKE THIS:

*N-C: Who appointed the pope?

ME: THE 1ST POPE WAS PETER, APPOINTED BY JESUS (MT 16: 15-19)…& & SO ON & SO FORT…HOW ABOUT YOURS…WHO APPOINTED YOUR HEAD or WHATEVER YOU CALL YOURS!?

N-C: Ephesians 4:11So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. DID YOU SEE ANY POPE OR PRIEST ON A LIST?*

DID I GIVE A RIGHT ANSWER & HOW AM I GOING TO RESPOND?

Of course you did.

The simple answer is that the word “pope” comes from the Greek papas, which originally meant “father,” but came to mean “Bishop” or “Patriarch,” and wasn’t initially a designate of the Petrine Office, but only later became said title.

In other words, when we call the Bishop of Rome “pope” we’re calling him “father,” which is exactly what we call our local priests and/or bishops.

But why father? In classical Latin, the word papa meant “tutor.” Thus, it may be understood that priests and bishops were seen as the teachers of the early Church, the holders of truth.

To be an apostle is to be an emissary for Christ. To be a prophet is to warn people of the dangers of continued sin. To be an evangelist is to share the good news of salvation. To be a pastor is to lead by example. To be a teacher is to demonstrate truth.

These are not offices. These are activities that every Christian is called to, but to which some Christians have been given a greater charism than others.

Priest, Bishop, Pope, Archbishop, Deacon, Cardinal, etc. These are offices. There is a difference in kind here.

Christ is the King, and as King He appointed Peter as His Prime Minister, as seen in the passage you cited (Matt 16). The language is clearly a reference to Isaiah 22.

 

[queenofpeace]

Of course you did.

The simple answer is that the word “pope” comes from the Greek papas, which originally meant “father,” but came to mean “Bishop” or “Patriarch,” and wasn’t initially a designate of the Petrine Office, but only later became said title.

In other words, when we call the Bishop of Rome “pope” we’re calling him “father,” which is exactly what we call our local priests and/or bishops.

But why father? In classical Latin, the word papa meant “tutor.” Thus, it may be understood that priests and bishops were seen as the teachers of the early Church, the holders of truth.

To be an apostle is to be an emissary for Christ. To be a prophet is to warn people of the dangers of continued sin. To be an evangelist is to share the good news of salvation. To be a pastor is to lead by example. To be a teacher is to demonstrate truth.

These are not offices. These are activities that every Christian is called to, but to which some Christians have been given a greater charism than others.

Priest, Bishop, Pope, Archbishop, Deacon, Cardinal, etc. These are offices. There is a difference in kind here.

Christ is the King, and as King He appointed Peter as His Prime Minister, as seen in the passage you cited (Matt 16). The language is clearly a reference to Isaiah 22.

Thank you, MrSnaith!..this is very helpful…am not very good in expressing myself…can i use this for my respond?

 

[MrSnaith]

Thank you, MrSnaith!..this is very helpful…am not very good in expressing myself…can i use this for my respond?

If you like.

 

[pablope]

I WAS IN A DIALOGUE W/ A N-C ON ANOTHER BOARD AND OUR DISCUSSION WENT LIKE THIS:

*N-C: Who appointed the pope?

ME: THE 1ST POPE WAS PETER, APPOINTED BY JESUS (MT 16: 15-19)…& & SO ON & SO FORT…HOW ABOUT YOURS…WHO APPOINTED YOUR HEAD or WHATEVER YOU CALL YOURS!?

N-C: Ephesians 4:11So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. DID YOU SEE ANY POPE OR PRIEST ON A LIST?*

DID I GIVE A RIGHT ANSWER & HOW AM I GOING TO RESPOND?

Well…for one thing, Jesus only appointed the Apostles…so the question is…how did those after the apostles get appointed?

I would use the example of St. Paul"

Galatians 1:18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas and remained with him fifteen days.
Galatians 2:2 I went in response to a revelation and, meeting privately with those esteemed as leaders, I presented to them the gospel that I preach among the Gentiles. I wanted to be sure I was not running and had not been running my race in vain.

1 Now in the church at Antioch there were prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen (who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch) and Saul. 2 While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” 3 So after they had fasted and prayed, they placed their hands on them and sent them off.

So how does your friend’s pastor follow the example of appointment of St. Paul?

 

[glendab]

Hello QOP.

Usually when a person is looking for a specific word in the Gospels to “prove” something or disprove it’s validity because it ISN’T in Scripture and are of the ilk that if it isn’t in the Bible, they don’t believe it, I usually point them to the last verses of this Sunday’s Readings, John 20: 30 and 31 “Now, Jesus did many other signs in the presence of his disciples
that are not written in this book. But these are written that you may come to believe
that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that through this belief you may have life in his name.” and say that this Gospel proves that not all Jesus did and teaches are contained in the Bible. There it is, the Bible saying it alone isn’t the last word God spoke or taught. It refutes the whole Sola Scriptura thing. It can also be found in the next Chapter of St. John, 21: 25 " There are also many other things that Jesus did, but if these were to be described individually, I do not think the whole world would contain the books that would be written." Most Sola Scripturists go away in a huff over that one.

If your friend is looking for the word Pope in the Bible he isn’t going to find it, but that doesn’t negate its use as a title. The word Trinity isn’t there either. There are many things done by God that aren’t recorded in the Bible and that only means the Bible isn’t all we need for Salvation. It is that which the above verses point out: the Bible isn’t all we need for Salvation which is a direct contradiction of one of their main beliefs: they are “saved” by their Bible and only by a few things it says. That is why we have BOTH Scripture and Tradition. They don’t. All they have is their tradition that negates most things Catholic and that is their tradition but trying to get them to admit it is even a tradition is difficult. Basically you wind up going in circles quite a bit in talking to them. It can be frustrating. Don’t give up and let us know how it goes.

Glenda