Question on "Triumph: The Power and the Glory of the Catholic Church"

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I am considering buying this book because it looks very good and historically correct. Its also by H.W. Crocker who seems very intelligent and learned. Has anyone here read it? If so did you like it and would you reccomend it?

It seems pretty popular having reviews from Raymond Arroyo, Sean Hannity, and William F. Buckley Jr.

~ Pius :knight1:
 
Yes, I have read it and highly recommend it. Its a very entertaining history of the Church. Also not very PC which is refreshing. Crocker isn’t afraid to call a heretic a heretic. Its a very readable fun book.
 
I, too, have read it. I loaned my copy to a friend, and reading it was what convinced him to finally join the Church (he was on the fence for a while). That was way back in 2003 or 2004, and now he is in the seminary, praise God!

It is an excellent read, nothing stuffy about it.
 
Seems like a possible buy for me, but I’m looking for a conservatice Catholic Church History book that covers the death of JPII and the current era of B16.

Benedict XVI has done so many considerable things, both small (continual reform of the reform and his speeches) and large (Summorum Pontificum, Ecclesiae Unitatem, the talks w/SSPX) that I feel this is significant Church history happening!

The good Catholic history books I find only cover up to Vatican II, + or - 20 years, with an exception of Koch’s Journey Wisdom and Misson that covers up to the early 90’s (1994 book).
 
Thank you for the great responses! Its been ordered from amazon. I’m looking forward to reading it. If anyone else has any reviews (good or bad), feel free to post them.
 
YCRCMale - *I’m looking for a conservatice Catholic Church History book that covers the death of JPII and the current era of B16. *

Maybe you should wait a few more years , so that a more objective perspective can be obtained.

As for the Crocker book, it is not an academic book and has been criticised because the sources he quotes are secondhand sources but for a popular history of the Catholic Church it definitely gave me the overview I needed on which to hang a more scholarly treatment e,g Warren Carrol’s History of Christendom should I ever get around to dipping into the six plus volumes!

Whilst on the topic of Catholic histories which are not breastbeating apologies Thomas E Woods’ *How The Catholic Church Built Western Civilisation * is another good one.

To give you a laugh - I Googled Thomas Woods (forgetting the E) and this is what came up!:eek:

thomaswoods.net
 
Yinekka, is carol’s 6th volume out yet? I’ve been tempted to get that series but two things hold me back, Mainly that 6th volume isn’t out yet, and minorly that is it written from a conservatice Catholic AMERICAN perspective, making that 5th volume a little foreign to me as a Canadian. Now, if it covered a North American perspective like my Gr. 13 course I took in high school, or globally, that would have been much better.
 
I just finished this book in December. It is a wonderful book. I hope to be able to add it to my own library one day. The copy I read belongs to my pastor.

You will enjoy the book very much! The author has quite a sense of humor too.

👍👍👍👍
 
It is not as well researched or balanced as it should be.

On the street the mistakes in it are known as “Crocker’s Whoppers”.

It’s a big book, but don’t expect it to be as accurate as something seminary students would use (and regardless of writing styles … written for scholars or for the general public, texts about religious beliefs and religious history have a duty to be accurate). It is definitely not that kind of book.
 
YCRCmale I went to Amazon but didn’t see the 6th volume. You are probably aware that Dr Carroll has passed away so there may not be a 6th volume. I looked at the reviews of the 5th book and can’t quite see the point you are trying to make about the fact that Carroll was a citizen of the United States. The reviews didn’t mention Canada as being a topic of the book. Every book has to be written by someone who lives in some country but that doesn’t mean that the author can’t be objective in what he writes.

Hesychios please outline so called “Crocker’s Whoppers” for me or send me a link to a site which does so. I haven’t heard the term so I mustn’t walk on the same street as you.
 
Hesychios said:
It is not as well researched or balanced as it should be.

On the street the mistakes in it are known as “Crocker’s Whoppers”.

It’s a big book, but don’t expect it to be as accurate as something seminary students would use (and regardless of writing styles … written for scholars or for the general public, texts about religious beliefs and religious history have a duty to be accurate). It is definitely not that kind of book.
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Though I already ordered “Triumph”, can you possibly name a book that you would reccomend?

~ Pius :knight1:
 
Hesychios said:
It is not as well researched or balanced as it should be.

On the street the mistakes in it are known as “Crocker’s Whoppers”.

It’s a big book, but don’t expect it to be as accurate as something seminary students would use (and regardless of writing styles … written for scholars or for the general public, texts about religious beliefs and religious history have a duty to be accurate). It is definitely not that kind of book.
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How PC of you! Hahaha.

You’re probably more familiar with his, er, commentary on the Orthodox. Not something that helped his crediblity in my book.
 
Bl_Pope_Pius_IX said:
Though I already ordered “Triumph”, can you possibly name a book that you would reccomend?

~ Pius :knight1:
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It is no easy task to recommend a totally impartial church history in narrative form. However there has been some good scholarship out there.

I can remember an old book (very old) with a black cover with an excellent history (I think published in the 1950’s), I thought it was excellent, and from a Roman Catholic point of view ~ so long ago ~ alas I cannot remember the name. 😊

I would definitely read Eusebius. The translation in English has been popular enough that it is easy to get. It is a primary source for a lot of later authorship, at least for the earliest period of church history.

Anyway I might recommend Jaroslav Pelikan and his six volume opus published by the University of Chicago Press:

The Christian Tradition: A History of the Development of Doctrine:

-1- The Emergence of the Catholic Tradition

-2- The Spirit of Eastern Christendom

-3- The Growth of Medieval Theology (600-1300)

Etc …

But of course that looks at the story of church from a ‘theological development’ viewpoint, and there are other angles.

The Chadwicks (Henry and Owen) were great scholars in this regard.

I would say there is no ‘one book’ that will suffice.

Good publishers might include Paulist Press and Cistercian Press, you’ll find all kinds of neat things to read if you poke around. The trouble is these offerings are not usually summaries, they take one thing like ‘St Augustine’ or ‘Meister Eckert’ and give a whole bunch of writings and commentary on just that.

I don’t know if Michael Glasier press still publishes, but they had some good paperbacks on subjects like the history and development of the Papacy. It is (or was ) a Catholic publisher, and if I knew where to find them I would recommend it, because I read several of them long ago and I found them very balanced and informative. The last I heard their catalog was taken over by Liturgical Press, but with a cursory look I can’t find any of the old titles listed.

If I think of anything specific that summarizes your interest in Roman Catholic church history, I will post again later.

Pax et Bonum 🙂
 
Bl_Pope_Pius_IX said:
I am considering buying this book because it looks very good and historically correct. Its also by H.W. Crocker who seems very intelligent and learned. Has anyone here read it? If so did you like it and would you reccomend it?

It seems pretty popular having reviews from Raymond Arroyo, Sean Hannity, and William F. Buckley Jr.

~ Pius :knight1:
Click to expand...
I bought it, (kindle version), read it through once, and now use it often for reference. It was just what I was looking for. It goes over the full history, and gave me a good outline and point of reference, so that now I at least know the areas I wish to study on a deeper level. I found it a compelling and vibrant basic outline of Catholic history. Some say it is adulterated and Catholic biased. I don’t know. I could see where somebody who was looking for something to lambast the Church with may want to turn to another source. Frankly, I thought it was rather refreshing to read some history from someone who doesn’t hate the Catholic Church. I felt he dealt with the major periods of difficulty in the Church fairly. All works of historians are tainted to some degree by the personal philosophies and leanings of the historian. It is human nature. There are plenty of histories out there who look at only the dark underbelly of the Church. This one looks at her glories as well, and perhaps emphasizes them over the failings. But I like and appreciate the style of writing, and it is simply riveting. It shows the warts. But it is Church friendly all the same. Quite the feat in our current culture. I can’t say enough about it. I really like this book.
 
yinekka said:
Whilst on the topic of Catholic histories which are not breastbeating apologies Thomas E Woods’ *How The Catholic Church Built Western Civilisation * is another good one.
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Yes! Agreed. Another wonderful book.
 
Hesychios,

What about that list of Whoppers you posted about or at least a link to them.
 
I have it and read it about 6 years ago. Liked it a lot. I’ve read two of the author’s other books: one on Robert E. Lee and another which was a military history of the US. From the latter, it seemed like he took a bit of a neo-conservative “America can do no wrong” slant on things. I don’t recall that coming through in Triumph, but I’d be interested in how my opinion of the book changed (or didn’t) over the past 6 years. (My personal outlook has changed a good bit in that time, and I’ve slanted neo-con myself then).

Pax Christi
 
YoungCanRCMale said:
Seems like a possible buy for me, but I’m looking for a conservatice Catholic Church History book that covers the death of JPII and the current era of B16.

Benedict XVI has done so many considerable things, both small (continual reform of the reform and his speeches) and large (Summorum Pontificum, Ecclesiae Unitatem, the talks w/SSPX) that I feel this is significant Church history happening!

The good Catholic history books I find only cover up to Vatican II, + or - 20 years, with an exception of Koch’s Journey Wisdom and Misson that covers up to the early 90’s (1994 book).
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Benedict’s writings are wonderful to read as well… I was so happy when he was elected Pope. (Though I must admit I knew plenty of Catholics that were freaked here in the States)
 
The book by Crocker is very anti-Orthodox. He celebrates the sacking of Constantinople by the Crusaders in 1204 and even makes the suggestion the date of the sacking should be a feast day in the Roman Catholic Church.

This goes against everything Blessed Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI are trying to accomplish with our Orthodox brethren.
yinekka said:
Hesychios,

What about that list of Whoppers you posted about or at least a link to them.
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