Question on Wedding Attendence

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caeac4

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Hi,

This is my first post here, and I’m not sure if I’m posting in the right forum.

A family member is getting married next year. She is nominally Catholic ((not practicing)), and is going through pre-cana with her diocese. However, she wants to have an outdoor wedding. Her bishop is rather strict on dispensations in that area ((I know this because my best friend had the same wish and was turned down)).

She and her husband to be are planning on a civil ceremony outdoors, and have found a priest ((from outside the diocese)), willing to privately bless their marriage after the civil ceremony is complete.

Should my husband and I attend this civil wedding?

Thanks for any advice you can give!

God bless,
Caity
 
I’d advise her to talk to the parish priest. She could have the civil ceremony outdoors before or after having a Catholic ceremony at her church. I’ve heard of people with the same problem having a civil service outside as a main event and doing a convalidation on the same day with a small group of family or even just two witnesses in their priests office.

Other than that, if they are both marrying for the first time and do not have any previous marriages to annul, I can’t see why you shouldn’t attend the ceremony.
 
MJJean said:
I’d advise her to talk to the parish priest. She could have the civil ceremony outdoors before or after having a Catholic ceremony at her church. I’ve heard of people with the same problem having a civil service outside as a main event and doing a convalidation on the same day with a small group of family or even just two witnesses in their priests office.

Other than that, if they are both marrying for the first time and do not have any previous marriages to annul, I can’t see why you shouldn’t attend the ceremony.
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The big problem is if they ask for a dispensation and are refused then they are being disobedient to their bishop. In essence they are making the civil ceremony the “main event” and taking care of the pesky religious stuff after doing what they want. It is never right to basically say “The truth is inconvieniet so I’m going to lie; I’ll just ask for forgiveness later.” Think of it this way. Say you apply for a job and say you had a degree even if you didn’t, but you intend to finish the degree in the future. Does that change the fact that you were duplicitous in the first place? Having a fake ceremony with the intent to fix it later is like sinning with the intent to just confess later. I’d never recommend either.

To the OP personally I could not attend the civil ceremony, but would say I’d be happy to attend the convalidation when she actually gets married.
 
My brother got married in the Baptist Church. His wife is Baptist. He’s Catholic.

The Baptist Minister graciously informed my brother a Catholic Priest was welcome. A kneeler was provided on the altar. My brother said “no” and then a week before the wedding (at age 31 yrs old) asked our Mom to contact a priest. Mom told him “no”, she wouldn’t riducle our religion that way. And if he wanted one, to find one himself. He didn’t.

We all attended. The siblings were in the wedding.

They have a daughter, raised Baptist.

My younger brother married in the Lutheran Church (MO synod). The minister told him a priest could attend, but was not welcome on the altar and to sit in the congretation w/o his roman collar.

Our priest, a fiesty Irishman, attended the wedding, sat in the front pew with my parents, roman collar and all. He blessed their marriage in the reception hall over the mashed potatoes.

We all attended and the siblings were in the wedding.

Wouldn’t dream of missing either one.
 
caeac4 said:
Hi,

Should my husband and I attend this civil wedding?
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Sure. Why not? Don’t risk alienating family members to make a point. It will do more harm than good to the couple’s impressions of the Catholics in their lives.

Go and be a good sport.
 
Usige said:
The big problem is if they ask for a dispensation and are refused then they are being disobedient to their bishop. In essence they are making the civil ceremony the “main event” and taking care of the pesky religious stuff after doing what they want. It is never right to basically say “The truth is inconvieniet so I’m going to lie; I’ll just ask for forgiveness later.” Think of it this way. Say you apply for a job and say you had a degree even if you didn’t, but you intend to finish the degree in the future. Does that change the fact that you were duplicitous in the first place? Having a fake ceremony with the intent to fix it later is like sinning with the intent to just confess later. I’d never recommend either.

To the OP personally I could not attend the civil ceremony, but would say I’d be happy to attend the convalidation when she actually gets married.
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For social and legal purposes, the couple actually marries when the witnesses and officiant sign the marriage license.

I disagree it’s an inconvenient lie to marry in a civil ceremony and convalidate in the same day. The reality is that marriage costs money. Most likely, the couple listed above have already paid deposits at the very least. Most are entirely unaware they require a dispensation to marry in a location other than a Catholic church and those that are aware think it will be no big deal to get that dispensation. Usually, people make their arrangements thinking it won’t be a problem for the Church. Once they have already made their arrangements, it could be very costly to change those arrangements. Not to mention the stress and chaos changing arrangements causes. Venue, caterer, DJ, photographer/videographer, flowers and decorations, invitations, rearranging arrival and departure plus hotel reservations for the honeymoon… on and on. This would place a heavy burden on the family, if they are paying for the celebration, or on the couple. In that kind of situation, the only thing that makes sense is to have the civil ceremony and to convalidate asap.
 
I would add my voice to those who are speaking against the idea of having a secular “wedding” publicly and then holding a convalidation asap afterwards. To do this is very much a case of “getting the pesky religious stuff out of the way”.

It is a sin to perform a fake wedding. A civil ceremony is a fake wedding. (from a sacramental point of view)
I would concur with those who suggest agreeing to attend the church wedding (and any reception held afterwards) but refuse to attend anything prior to that.

We need to stand up for a proper Christian idea of what the Sacrament of Marriage is, and totally reject the Hollywood image that’s being rammed down our throats.

I married in a Church. The wedding was entirely planned around that. Invitations made it clear that attendance at the after party was conditional on attending the actual wedding for most guests (exceptions were made where there was a reason)

My brother married a Lutheran American woman. He did so with the proper dispensations, in her family church in the USA. They then returned to Ireland and held a “Blessing” mass to publicly demonstrate their intention to have a Catholic Wedding and to ensure those in Ireland who couldn’t travel to the US could celebrate their marriage with them. This was not a convalidation, as the original wedding ceremony was held with the proper dispensations in place. It was primarily held for the family and friends in Ireland.

Another brother had a registry office wedding which is totally null and void from a sacramental point of view. They would never have been married by any priest who undertook proper investigations anyway, and could have had their marriage annulled even if one did agree to marry them… That marriage lasted about 6 months, but the shock waves have lasted over 10 years. - the civil divorce is still not finalised.

People need to realise that Marriage is not about some slushy romanticism. it’s not about some big party. - It’s about forming a covenant relationship before God, in front you your community. It’s an unbreakable covenant and a sacrament first and foremost. There’s no need to spend 5 or 6 figure sums to have a good wedding.
I spend about £2500 on mine (clothing, reception venue, marriage licence, food etc). that was an order of magnitude more than either of my brothers (excluding travel for the USA wedding)… however it is 1/10th of what a close friend spent on his, and far below the national average here in the uk (about 1/4 of the uk average).
 
My general rule is that I attend only presumptively valid weddings. Since family member is Catholic and is marrying in a civil ceremony with no dispensation, it is a presumptively invalid attempt at marriage. Therefore, I would not attend.
 
Thank you so much for all the thoughtful insight. My first inclination ((as well as my husband’s)) is not to attend the wedding.

My hesitation ((and the reasoning for placing the question in this forum)) comes from the fact that I am already known as the ‘uber Catholic’ in my family. Not attending this wedding (regardless of any explanation offered) would cement that notion and most likely cut off all chances of evangelization for those in my family that are not practicing.

Is there a way to tie in attendance to the wedding with evangelization about the true nature and role of marriage in Catholicism?

God bless,
Caity
 
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