Question pertaining to the Lord's Day

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Since the Lord’s Day starts effectually on Saturday’s sundown, does that mean that the Lord’s Day ends on Sunday’s sundown, or is it after midnight?
Note that this is not about the validity of masses outside of sundown on Saturday or sundown on Sunday, but about the rest prescribed to us.
 
The Lord’s Day, Sunday, does not start at sundown Saturday. The Church does not reckon days in this manner, as the Jews did.

Per canon law, a day is midnight to midnight unless a particular canon states otherwise for its purposes.

Liturgically, you may fulfill your Sunday or Holy Day obligation at a mass celebrated on the day of or evening before. But the evening before is still the evening before, not the day.
 
Kei said:
Since the Lord’s Day starts effectually on Saturday’s sundown, does that mean that the Lord’s Day ends on Sunday’s sundown, or is it after midnight?
Note that this is not about the validity of masses outside of sundown on Saturday or sundown on Sunday, but about the rest prescribed to us.
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You’re really asking two questions here, even if you claim you’re not. 😉

One question is “when is the Lord’s day”, and the other is “inasmuch as we’re commanded to honor the ‘sabbath’, in what period of time may we ‘honor’ it?”

So, let’s answer both questions:
  • The “Lord’s Day”, as the perfection of the sabbath that we’re commanded to honor, is Sunday, the day of the Resurrection of our Lord. By Jewish tradition, a ‘day’ began at sundown; in current culture, a ‘day’ begins at midnight.
  • The Church decrees that we are able to meet the commandment of honoring the sabbath either on Sunday itself (from midnight to midnight) or at an anticipated Mass (beginning at 4pm on Saturday afternoon).
Two distinct questions (one Scriptural, and the other a precept); two distinct answers. 😉
 
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So the answer is a Jewish day, and even Catholic Liturgy reflecting Jewish reckoning (eg the Easter Triduum), begins at one sunset and ends with the next.

The Sabbath is so reckoned, the Lords Day, now, is not.
 
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But Pope Benedict of recent memory wrote,
"For the sake of these important values – while recognizing that Saturday evening, beginning with First Vespers, is already a part of Sunday and a time when the Sunday obligation can be fulfilled – we need to remember that it is Sunday itself that is meant to be kept holy, lest it end up as a day “empty of God.” "
Wherein Saturday evening, beginning with First Vespers, is a part of Sunday. Of course, this is referring to the Saturday evening masses fulfilling the Sunday obligation, so if any canon lawyers were to say it starts at midnight rather, I’d gladly believe it.
 
I see some think I was speaking on the validity of the masses prior to Sunday, but I was not; the Church has assigned them valid Sunday masses, so they’re valid so far as I am concerned.
I guess the question is more like “when is the Lord’s Day?” pertaining to the exact hours of its duration.
You make it seem like it is culturally from midnight to midnight. If this is so, then is it different in a different culture or rite?
 
Kei said:
I guess the question is more like “when is the Lord’s Day?”
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Sunday.

Can. 202 §1. In law, a day is understood as a period consisting of 24 continuous hours and begins at midnight unless other provision is expressly made
 
So you are saying there is no provision concerning the Lord’s Day, affecting the hours?
I seem to be misinformed is such is the case.
 
The Lord’s Day is Sunday. Not Saturday, not Saturday evening. It’s Sunday, midnight to midnight. It’s not complicated.
 
That’s not quite true. It depends on context, there are contexts other than the obligation.

In the Liturgy (including the Divine Office) Feastdays and Solemnities begin at sunset the night before and seem to end at midnight of the actual day (i.e. concluded by Compline)…
Hence the expression “First Vespers” and “vigil service”.
 
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As more and more people don’t get weekends off in this wretched society, It’s good there’s options for people to go to Mass.
 
BlackFriar, you mention the Easter triduum. Here’s a question that I once tried to find the answer to, but never did, beyond all reasonable doubt: When, exactly, does Lent end? At sunset on Holy Saturday? And, if so, is that historically a carryover from the Jewish calendar, i.e. the moment when the Sabbath ends and the First Day begins?
 
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From my (limited) understanding Lent technically ends Maundy Thursday, the Triduum being the shortest liturgical season and one that forms a continual liturgical ‘action’. The Lenten discipline however lasts until Eastertide begins.
 
Well how do you define “Lent”?
I define it as 40 days and nights of penance imitating Jesus in the desert.

His journey likely begins with daylight1 Ash Wednesday, (…though he could very well have set out before dawn which would count as night1.)

Count 40 daylights, excluding Sundays which are not days of penance, and you arrive at Holy Saturday morning as the 40th daylight. But we need one more darkness to make 40 nights.
Therefore Lent cannot finish until after sunset HS night otherwise we only get 39 nights of Lent.

Was Jesus in the desert for 40 complete nights? Probably, though one might start walking home a bit before dawn. Though one doesnt leave a desert quickly. It starts getting pedantic if we want to split hairs over whether the last night has to be a complete night. Jesus was in the tomb for less than three whole days so I dont think it has to be complete nights.

So I would say Lent could be said to end any time after sunset Holy Saturday night and before sunrise Sunday. But this assumes he set out in daylight on Ash Wednesday.

If he actually began before dawn on Ash Wednesday then 40 nights and daylights would conclude between sunrise and sunset of the same day, Holy Saturday.

So Jewish day reckoning doesnt enter into matters if we define Lent simply as 40 days and 40 nights.

But who cares and what does it matter?
 
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BartholomewB said:
Here’s a question that I once tried to find the answer to, but never did, beyond all reasonable doubt: When, exactly, does Lent end?
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Has anyone ever quoted from the General Norms for the Liturgical Year and the Calendar? That is, to best of my knowledge, the reasonably indubitable answer to the question of when Lent ends.
  1. Lent runs from Ash Wednesday until the Mass of the Lord’s Supper exclusive.
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Quibble
Yes, this means that no matter how you count it, Lent is 40~ish days, and the number of days has varied over the centuries. :spiral_calendar: Please don’t get too worked up about it. (Or, if you must: Please start a new thread)
 
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BlackFriar and Titivillus.―Thank you both for your help. Those two links shed a great deal of light on the problem. It now emerges that the difficulty in pinning down the exact end of Lent arises from two factors. First, I had naively assumed that “the Lenten fast” was simply another name for Lent itself. I now see that there is, in fact, a significant difference between the two: the six Sundays from Quadragesima to Palm Sunday are included in Lent but not in the Lenten fast. Second, the Church has changed the rules from time to time, notably in 1956 and again in 1969 but in minor ways at other times as well.

Thanks again to you both!
 
Ok, let me get this staight:
One can work and buy non necessities throughout Saturday night so long as it is prior to midnight, correct?
 
The Sabbath penetential obligations transferred to Sunday start at midnight unless stated otherwise.
Liturgical observances such as the Divine Office and the Vigil Mass that fulfills the mass obligation appear to start from sunset. Having said that it is not literally sunset …though I have ne er seen a vigil mass earlier than 5pm.

In any case, one may work on a Sunday for a good reason.
One has never been barred from buying non necessities since Vat2 as far as I am aware. Its just common sense re what makes a day restful and prayerful.
 
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