Question Re: Annulment (Part 2)

[StateofGrace]

I am in need of further (name removed by moderator)ut regarding an annulment. In my previous post (short version) my husband and I are attending RICA, we’ve been married 28 years and have 3 beautiful children). I was married briefly a long time ago and wish to seek an annulment so that I can become a part of the CC.

Previous spouse was (probably continues to be) an atheist. He has been married an additional four times (as far as I know of). The problem being is that we lived in a diffrent area and both his family and mine are deceased (potential witnesses). We are both only children, so there are no siblings that could be contacted by the Tribunal. Additionally there is the problem of trying to contact people I knew from that long ago.

I’ve searched for the ex-spouse and finally found a number for him. Petrified I called and left a message. He did return my call and oh my I’ve opened a can of worms. His anger and vindictiveness is unchanged. He now calls and leaves these lengthly messages about preventing me from joining the CC (which he calls a very nasty profane name).

He is calling upwards of 2 to 3 times a day. I am now scared to continue on with RICA for I know this is going to be brought to the RICA directors attention. I’m so embarrassed. My adult children are upset that I’ve brought this back on myself…not angry more worried.

Someone that was in my life 30 years ago … and now potentially holds power over my conversion.

My specific questions are …

Will he be able to prevent the annulment or delay it for ?? Years ??

What am I going to do about the lack of witnesses regarding our marriage ? Seriously I can only think of one person and she didn’t know me before marriage to him. I’ve only be able to find one person from 30 years ago.

BTW I have yet to meet our priest, he’s young and involved in many areas. The only face to face was after Mass and there were people around, definitely not the time or place. I did ask about a meeting, he said to call. I have but have yet to get a face to face meeting set up. Not complaining about him, he’s a terrific young man.

Any and all (name removed by moderator)ut will be appreciated.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I am in need of further (name removed by moderator)ut regarding an annulment. In my previous post (short version) my husband and I are attending RICA, we’ve been married 28 years and have 3 beautiful children). I was married briefly a long time ago and wish to seek an annulment so that I can become a part of the CC.

Previous spouse was (probably continues to be) an atheist. He has been married an additional four times (as far as I know of). The problem being is that we lived in a diffrent area and both his family and mine are deceased (potential witnesses). We are both only children, so there are no siblings that could be contacted by the Tribunal. Additionally there is the problem of trying to contact people I knew from that long ago.

I’ve searched for the ex-spouse and finally found a number for him. Petrified I called and left a message. He did return my call and oh my I’ve opened a can of worms. His anger and vindictiveness is unchanged. He now calls and leaves these lengthly messages about preventing me from joining the CC (which he calls a very nasty profane name).

He is calling upwards of 2 to 3 times a day. I am now scared to continue on with RICA for I know this is going to be brought to the RICA directors attention. I’m so embarrassed. My adult children are upset that I’ve brought this back on myself…not angry more worried.

Someone that was in my life 30 years ago … and now potentially holds power over my conversion.

My specific questions are …

Will he be able to prevent the annulment or delay it for ?? Years ??

What am I going to do about the lack of witnesses regarding our marriage ? Seriously I can only think of one person and she didn’t know me before marriage to him. I’ve only be able to find one person from 30 years ago.

BTW I have yet to meet our priest, he’s young and involved in many areas. The only face to face was after Mass and there were people around, definitely not the time or place. I did ask about a meeting, he said to call. I have but have yet to get a face to face meeting set up. Not complaining about him, he’s a terrific young man.

Any and all (name removed by moderator)ut will be appreciated.

He holds NO power over you joining the Catholic Church. He holds no power over if the Marriage is found invalid or valid. The only power he has is to participate with the Tribunal or not. Whoever is guiding your throught the RCIA process should never have instructed you to directly contact him. All that should have been instructed to do by your Tribunal advocate was provide the Tribunal with his contact information.

 

[1ke]

He now calls and leaves these lengthly messages about preventing me from joining the CC (which he calls a very nasty profane name).

He is calling upwards of 2 to 3 times a day.

Change your phone number and if he harrasses you then file a police complaint. Do not allow him to abuse you.

Also, keep the recordings of these messages for evidence.

Any and all correspondence should be handled through the tribunal NOT you directly. Don’t contact him again.

I am now scared to continue on with RICA for I know this is going to be brought to the RICA directors attention. I’m so embarrassed.

Why are you embarrassed? HE is the one who is a maniac, not you.

Do not be embarrassed. You do have to reveal personal details to the RCIA director, only your priest needs know of this.

My adult children are upset that I’ve brought this back on myself…not angry more worried.

You haven’t brought anything back on yourself. You are doing the right thing in trying to rectify your relationship with God. The rest will fall into place.

Someone that was in my life 30 years ago … and now potentially holds power over my conversion.

Get that though out of your head. He has no power over you. AT ALL.

Will he be able to prevent the annulment or delay it for ?? Years ??

You need to ask these questions of the advocate at the Tribunal (and trust me they have dealt with it all). But, probably not. He will be given a chance to respond but the process moves on without him if he does not respond by the deadline.

What am I going to do about the lack of witnesses regarding our marriage ? Seriously I can only think of one person and she didn’t know me before marriage to him. I’ve only be able to find one person from 30 years ago.

The advocate at the Tribunal will guide you on this. Remember, you can also pursue other avenues such as the Pauline or Petrine privilege (whichever applies) since he is unbaptized, and if I recall correctly you were unbaptized at the time of marriage.

BTW I have yet to meet our priest, he’s young and involved in many areas. The only face to face was after Mass and there were people around, definitely not the time or place. I did ask about a meeting, he said to call. I have but have yet to get a face to face meeting set up. Not complaining about him, he’s a terrific young man.

Make the call. Talking to him will give you much peace of mind.

 

[IrishAm]

He holds NO power over you joining the Catholic Church. He holds no power over if the Marriage is found invalid or valid. The only power he has is to participate with the Tribunal or not. Whoever is guiding your throught the RCIA process should never have instructed you to directly contact him. All that should have been instructed to do by your Tribunal advocate was provide the Tribunal with his contact information.

I agree.

Your ex can set it back a number of months by not responding – they have to give him opportunity to do so – that’s all. You should never have been advised to contact him.

 

[StateofGrace]

Now I feel foolish for the time spent tracking down his whereabouts, not to mention the aggravation of these phone calls. It was suggested that I contact him so that he wouldn’t be contacted out of the clear blue regarding the annulment. However, I’ve also read that this should be done, more or less out of courtesy.

I prayed for strength before the phoning because of previous intimidation and abuse (physical and emotional) issues. Another issue that came to light is that he now knows I’m married, my last name ( Caller ID ) and my location. Hopefully he will not attempt to upset my life as I fear he will. It would not be out of character for him to find out about my place of employment, who my spouse and children are, only to cause me further embarassment and aggravation.

All of this has brought back vivid memories and the depth of fear that I experienced but also how blessed I am to have the life I do now. Hopefully this will not stop my ability to join the church, for I’ve found peace and renewed faith and joyfully anticipate receiving the Holy Eucharist.

I must add that I’m ashamed to talk with my RICA instructor and my priest regarding my ex-spouse. However his possible actions and statements will most likely be a much worse burden than my embarassment.

Pray for me.

 

[puzzleannie]

I amI’ve searched for the ex-spouse and finally found a number for him. Petrified I called and left a message. He did return my call and oh my I’ve opened a can of worms. His anger and vindictiveness is unchanged. .

that is very sad because it was totally unnecessary for you to contact him yourself at all. the priest working with you on the annulment should have explained that to you. all you have to do is supply whatever contact info you have for your ex and potential witnesses. the tribunal makes the actual contacts exactly for this reason, so you don’t have to. Many people advised you on the previous thread to work with your priest on this and make sure he or someone delegated by the tribunal walks you through each step of the process. please take this good advice.

as you were advised before, he has to power to “deprive you” of annulment if the facts demonstrate the marriage was indeed invalid. his threats are empty. since you have gone ahead an contacted him with this unpleasant result, take legal steps to stop the harrassment, but no this will not be brought up publicly in your RCIA class, the only person you discuss this with is your pastor, and he advises the RCIA director when you can proceed with the sacraments.

 

[puzzleannie]

. It was suggested that I contact him so that he wouldn’t be contacted out of the clear blue regarding the annulment. However, I’ve also read that this should be done, more or less out of courtesy.
.

who made this suggestion? I doubt very much if this was your representative from the tribunal because this is not standard practice in a case where you expect difficulties, a fact you should have disclosed when you began the process, for exactly that reason, so you could have been saved this aggravation.

 

[StateofGrace]

that is very sad because it was totally unnecessary for you to contact him yourself at all. the priest working with you on the annulment should have explained that to you. all you have to do is supply whatever contact info you have for your ex and potential witnesses. the tribunal makes the actual contacts exactly for this reason, so you don’t have to. Many people advised you on the previous thread to work with your priest on this and make sure he or someone delegated by the tribunal walks you through each step of the process. please take this good advice.

You are right about others advising me about this. My priest and I have not had the ability to meet due to his other obligations and being out of town for several days. I’ve only talked to him twice both times being after mass in the receiving line. Due to this I asked my RICA instructor about it. I also asked a deacon who was in the classroom last week about what to do.

I now feel like a total idiot for not thinking this through and waiting till my priest had the time to meet with me.

 

[StateofGrace]

who made this suggestion? I doubt very much if this was your representative from the tribunal because this is not standard practice in a case where you expect difficulties, a fact you should have disclosed when you began the process, for exactly that reason, so you could have been saved this aggravation.

I haven’t even gotten that far (Tribunal representative). I have yet to meet with my pastor, which has been hard to do. That is the reason I asked my RICA instructor about what to do next.

 

[Brenda_V]

I must add that I’m ashamed to talk with my RICA instructor and my priest regarding my ex-spouse. However his possible actions and statements will most likely be a much worse burden than my embarassment.

Pray for me.

I just wanted to high-light this last piece of your most recent post - these words “I’m ashamed to talk…regarding my ex-spouse” are so words of an abused person. Remember anything your ex- says or does are his doing not yours, you got out of the marriage 30 years ago for a reason.

Make that appointment with your Priest to ease your mind and get the process started. Make it asap, I know he is probably a very busy man but helping you is part of what he does (or is supposed to do anyway) so, just do it. Write down everything you want to tell him if that will help you in talking to him about what is going on - you don’t need to tell your RCIA person anything more than “I have talked to Fr. about it and things are started.”

Brenda V.

 

[1ke]

Please don’t be embarrassed or feel stupid.

You are clearly a kind, loving person who wants to do the right thing. Get the police involved if he continues to harrass you.

You don’t have to be afraid of him anymore.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I haven’t even gotten that far (Tribunal representative). I have yet to meet with my pastor, which has been hard to do. That is the reason I asked my RICA instructor about what to do next.

Annulment is NOT a do-it-yourself process. WAIT until you are advised and guided on what to do, and when. Do spend some time getting YOUR documentation, birth cert, Baptism cert, Marriage license, civil divorce, other legal papers (Police reports, restraining orders) together.

 

[puzzleannie]

what last few posters have said, plus to add this
annulment proceeding has the potential to be an immensely healing process if you enter into in that spirit. pray every step of the way for that result.

 

[JRKH]

just a brief 2c worth.

He cannot do much about the annullment. In fact it sounds like he might be a help. If he hates the church that much he’ll probably not respond. If his vindictiveness continues, and he decides to respond he’l most likely be so angry in his responses that he’ll “hang” himself. He will show himself to the tribunal for what he is.

Other than that I’d say you’ve gotten some good advise here.

May God Bless you on your Journey

James

 

[StateofGrace]

just a brief 2c worth.

He cannot do much about the annullment. In fact it sounds like he might be a help. If he hates the church that much he’ll probably not respond. If his vindictiveness continues, and he decides to respond he’l most likely be so angry in his responses that he’ll “hang” himself. He will show himself to the tribunal for what he is.

Other than that I’d say you’ve gotten some good advise here.

May God Bless you on your Journey

James

Thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut, it’s sincerely appreciated. I’ve been praying and do have a sense of peace about it. My desire to be a part of the Catholic Church far outweighs the grief he is causing. I have recourse if his actions become out of hand. I know it seems that I’m not following through the right channels (ie my pastor) but contacting him has been very hard. I’ve tried repeatedely the last two days…sadly to no avail. BUT I digress, thank you James for your post. All the good advice is most welcome and certainly beneficial.
God Bless

 

[StateofGrace]

what last few posters have said, plus to add this
annulment proceeding has the potential to be an immensely healing process if you enter into in that spirit. pray every step of the way for that result.

You are so right about the “healing” part. I know this is not going to be an easy path, but it’s definitely one that I must travel. I will continue to pray about this and for the wisdom and strength to see it through. I know that God will see me through. Thank you for your kind advice.

 

[Brenda_V]

T. I know it seems that I’m not following through the right channels (ie my pastor) but contacting him has been very hard. I’ve tried repeatedely the last two days…sadly to no avail. BUT I digress, thank you James for your post. All the good advice is most welcome and certainly beneficial.
God Bless

Hmm, your Pastor doesn’t have a secretary who can schedule you in for him? If he is unable to see you due to time constraints it is perhaps time to find another Parish with a Priest who has the time to help you. Or you can contact your Diocesan office and ask them what you need to do to get this started.

I will pray for you on this, sounds like your Priest is just so very busy (let’s hope that is why you can’t get a hold of him!) He might also think that there is plenty of time to get this all started for you before Easter Vigil (really, not, you are right in trying to get this started now).

Brenda V.

 

[StateofGrace]

Hmm, your Pastor doesn’t have a secretary who can schedule you in for him? If he is unable to see you due to time constraints it is perhaps time to find another Parish with a Priest who has the time to help you. Or you can contact your Diocesan office and ask them what you need to do to get this started.

There is not a church secretary, only one at the school. She has helped me try to track him down several times, although I don’t think it’s her job. This is his first parish and we are located near a university and he’s very involved at the Newman Center. He also does double duty at a small rural parish nearby. His plate is very full.

I’ve only talked to him twice both times after Mass…but not about an annulment. Both times I asked him about when to call for an appointment, best times and so forth. Since I am relatively new, only been going about six months, he doesn’t know me.

I’ve called him three times today and no luck talking to him yet. A friend teaches religion classes at the school, so I talked to her today and she said “good luck” getting in touch because he’s so busy.

If I can’t connect with my pastor soon I’ll go ahead and contact the Diocese Tribunal and go from there. Although I hope it won’t be perceived as going around my pastor.

Thank you for your prayers, they are needed and appreciated.

 

[JRKH]

How about writing him a sealed note and hand delivering it to the Rectory.
Let him know that it is imperative that you talk to him ASAP.
My guess guess though is that since he is so busy and this is his first Parish he’ll probably just refer you to the diocese anyway.

James

 

[Brenda_V]

How about writing him a sealed note and hand delivering it to the Rectory.
Let him know that it is imperative that you talk to him ASAP.
My guess guess though is that since he is so busy and this is his first Parish he’ll probably just refer you to the diocese anyway.

James

Good idea because if he then does refer you to the Diocese then it won’t appear that you are “going around him”. Include in the note that not only do you need to see him ASAP but that it is in reference to starting the annulment process so he is somewhat prepared to talk to you about if he has to phone you.

Brenda V.