Question re: Husband staring at other females

[chevalier]

Not to be disrespectful or comic, but as it seems most men are visually stimulated, many adapt the “I can look but not touch” type of attitude, which while crude, is not bad in itself. Therefore, husbands should get good at starting straight ahead, or down and develop better peripheral vision.

Oh yes that. Heh, well, I’ve done things such as looking at mirror reflections rather than people themselves to stay unnoticed, but when it comes to noticing a comely lady I tend to acknowledge her instead (unless it would be too awkward). Particularly if she spent half an hour before going out choosing and arranging her dress and fixing her hair to look nice, it’s only her just reward to know the result is nice to look at. The same goes for a nice look in general, especially considering how a lot more to it is elective than people think, i.e. the result of either a ‘correct’ aesthetic decision or hard work.

Heck, I’ve occasionally done that for a man too, though one’s got to be careful these days, when complimenting another man’s looks could easily have you taken for homosexual.

It’s not impossible. I just don’t think most men see it as a thing, let along something that they should ever consider doing. Outside of truly devout Christians, how many men actually consider lust to be a sin?

That’s a more unisex issue than you seem to think.

So the “blame” really lies in the way a woman dresses? this is a very frightening example of blaming and shaming the victim. In Rio you have beautiful women on the beach topless, not to titilate, no pun intended, but because it’s their culture and it’s, you know, 100 degrees at the beach. There’s nothing wrong with noticing or glancing at an attractive beautiful person, male or female, but to try and blame the way they’re dressed on causing lust is definitely wrong and dangerous in my opinion.

Profoundly, vehemently disagree. Topless on the beach is not about ‘their culture’ somehow being exotic enough as to be different from ours — which Brazilian culture is not. Simply put, in some places in the world the culture has decided that a little titillation is acceptable and welcome, and that’s not a legitimate decision to make. It can mitigate the accountability of individuals subsequently born and bred in that particular culture, but it doesn’t make it legit. Topless sunbathing, unless perhaps on an isolated privately-owned beach without the company of other people, where one might as well be totally naked simply for the comfort of it, is all about being ‘sexy’. Not about temperature or anything else. And that’s wrong, full stop.

 

[SilverShadow22]

Oh yes that. Heh, well, I’ve done things such as looking at mirror reflections rather than people themselves to stay unnoticed, but when it comes to noticing a comely lady I tend to acknowledge her instead (unless it would be too awkward). Particularly if she spent half an hour before going out choosing and arranging her dress and fixing her hair to look nice, it’s only her just reward to know the result is nice to look at. The same goes for a nice look in general, especially considering how a lot more to it is elective than people think, i.e. the result of either a ‘correct’ aesthetic decision or hard work.

Heck, I’ve occasionally done that for a man too, though one’s got to be careful these days, when complimenting another man’s looks could easily have you taken for homosexual.

That’s a more unisex issue than you seem to think.

Maybe I’m just weird, but I only stare at things when I can’t figure them out. Something unattractive is just as likely to hold my attention as something attractive.

When out with my man recently at the mall, he had to do something on his phone and I ended up staring at this dude standing outside the men’s clothing store. Because I literally couldn’t figure out what he was wearing or what he was supposed to be doing. Some might have called him objectively attractive, but he had no appeal to me, and then I realized what it could have looked like I was doing.

His outfit didn’t go together and the shoes were ridiculous and he was twirling what I finally realized was a mannequin stand hook… I guess he was trying to make clothes shopping look cool to men? Idk, the whole thing was pretty strange. If he’d looked normal or was just walking by, I wouldn’t even have registered his existence.

 

[chevalier]

She is slandering her husband. You cannot take her at her word because we have no witnesses, and no evidence. We are only hearing one side of the story.

No. She is seeking counsel, and disclosing what she knows for that sort of purpose is legitimate. Moreover, she is remaining anonymous and not disclosing her husband’s name or address or anything else that could help identify the man. Therefore no harm is done to her husband’s reputation.

The best response is to direct the poster to seek advice from a competent priest, not to vilify the husband for what may be false allegations.

No, she’s seeking advice from people, and that sort of help is not only for priests to give or ask from, it’s perfectly okay for friends and other lay Catholics. I’ve already explained why there is no issue of false accusations here.

 

[SilverShadow22]

The way I ‘check people out’ is a subconscious, intuitive, glancing, impressionistic way. A myriad of barely-registered ‘light’ conclusions such as dangerous, normal, odd, loud, underdressed, overdressed, suggestive… My mind does an instant pattern recognition and I sort of float between them. And then each conclusion drifts right out of my mind again. I don’t judge people, only what their appearance indicates about them… Like Chevalier said, what you intentionally do to say something about yourself is fair game for judgement.

But this is somewhat inexact and even stressful, which was why I was more than happy to become almost oblivious in the presence of someone infinitely more capable than I.

 

[SilverShadow22]

As for men being visual more than women, perhaps to an extent they are. But I wouldn’t make too much of it. Women can be just as visual as men, which is evident if one talks to women honestly, read women’s press and so on.

Same goes for: ‘women don’t like to be stared at.’ Some do, some don’t, a lot depends on the woman and on her opinion of the guy.

I don’t know about by gender, but I can’t keep an image in my head to save my life, unless it’s literally branded there over and over and over, and quite regularly, at that. I go by impression, conclusion, and, actually, sound.

I’ll remember what something sounded like long after what it looked like has faded. I don’t really register visuals… Visuals are only relevant long enough to make a conclusion, or to avoid running into things… And as I said before, even that doesn’t always work!

If we run a spectrum where photographic memory is the most extreme… I’m all the way at the other end, with only those with actual impairment being further along than me.

And I never liked to be stared at… Why would the attention of random men please me? Once in awhile it’s nice to hear affirmation of my hair, makeup, and clothing choices, but being stared at in a way specific to wondering at the pleasures my body could offer is for one man and one man alone. One who already likes me for me.

 

[chevalier]

Most of the time the young women notice it, and they don’t like it. What surprises me is that many men think that women DO like that attention. They don’t. They really don’t.

We’re both talking from personal experience here, but mine is diferent. Women like attention, just like men like to have something to focus that attention on. Moreover, the vice versa also works. Only, not everybody looks in the same way and not everybody has the same criteria for what’s okay and what’s too much. Religion, culture, social class and other societal factors also come into play, the resut being that, again, individual tolerance levels vary.

Also, I would respectfull point out that all the emphasis and repetition in your denial suggests that you just might be talking from the point of view of what should be than what is. (If you forgive my gloomy expression.)

As a message to the guys out there–most women, when they realize you’re ogling, think you’re a creeper, and once a woman thinks you’re a creeper, you cannot reconcile for it. You can do the Rite of Reconciliation with God, but not with a woman. Once a creeper, always a creeper.

Withholding reconciliation from one’s contrite and repentant neighbour would hardly be Christian. For starters and most importantly, no matter how creepy a guy is, not wishing him salvation would be flirting with sin against the Holy Spirit. Do remember: ‘and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us,’ as well. You certainly wouldn’t consciously ask God to mirror that sort of forgiveness.

For the record, whether you’re male or female, it’s pretty much irrelevant in that we’re all humans, no more and no less, and it’s certainly possible to understand that our neighbours will sometimes fall to temptation and look longer or harder at someone else than is excusable, but someone else doesn’t have to mean someone else than us. It’s forgivable, just like a physical blow or fraud or slander or some other wrong or humiliation. Forgive and move on. I’m pretty sure a lot of such forgiveness goes on between friends, coworkers etc., not necessarily only Catholic or Christian but also secular people.

Heh, it’s not even a good reason to write that person off as a potential romantic partner on the spot. It just doesn’t rise to that level.

 

[SilverShadow22]

We’re both talking from personal experience here, but mine is diferent. Women like attention, just like men like to have something to focus that attention on. Moreover, the vice versa also works. Only, not everybody looks in the same way and not everybody has the same criteria for what’s okay and what’s too much. Religion, culture, social class and other societal factors also come into play, the resut being that, again, individual tolerance levels vary.

Also, I would respectfull point out that all the emphasis and repetition in your denial suggests that you just might be talking from the point of view of what should be than what is. (If you forgive my gloomy expression.)

Withholding reconciliation from one’s contrite and repentant neighbour would hardly be Christian. For starters and most importantly, no matter how creepy a guy is, not wishing him salvation would be flirting with sin against the Holy Spirit. Do remember: ‘and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us,’ as well. You certainly wouldn’t consciously ask God to mirror that sort of forgiveness.

For the record, whether you’re male or female, it’s pretty much irrelevant in that we’re all humans, no more and no less, and it’s certainly possible to understand that our neighbours will sometimes fall to temptation and look longer or harder at someone else than is excusable, but someone else doesn’t have to mean someone else than us. It’s forgivable, just like a physical blow or fraud or slander or some other wrong or humiliation. Forgive and move on. I’m pretty sure a lot of such forgiveness goes on between friends, coworkers etc., not necessarily only Catholic or Christian but also secular people.

Heh, it’s not even a good reason to write that person off as a potential romantic partner on the spot. It just doesn’t rise to that level.

I don’t dress to be noticed, I dress to look nice and blend in

 

[chevalier]

I don’t know about by gender, but I can’t keep an image in my head to save my life, unless it’s literally branded there over and over and over, and quite regularly, at that. I go by impression, conclusion, and, actually, sound.

Men are more visual and women are more acoustic but both respond to the other group of stimuli too. And while every woman is different (just like every man), if I could have a dollar for every instance I’ve heard or seen women comment on men’s looks, including private parts of their anatomy, especially the back side… I feel so amused when people think this never happens, whereas in reality it’s so commonplace. And both sexes are quite tactile anyway. For some the visuals might simply be the next best thing they aren’t going to face immediate punishment for.

And I never liked to be stared at… Why would the attention of random men please me?

I’m a man, and the attention of random women certainly pleases me. And like I said, women like the attention just as men like to have someone to give it to, and it even works in the opposite direction as well. The point is, however, looks are a fleeting thing and in any case we owe each other respect and charity. Once that is missing, there is a problem.

Once in awhile it’s nice to hear affirmation of my hair, makeup, and clothing choices,

See? You’ve just admitted it. And there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that.

but being stared at in a way specific to

Staring is different from looking. In any case, there are people who enjoy being even stared at. It confirms their attractiveness, which is something they crave, and it also reaffirms their power over others, notably, in a woman, the power to direct the actions of a man, who is a larger and stronger creature and normally couldn’t be physically compelled by the average woman. A desire not alien to men, either, a lot of whom enjoy the power to get a woman — without using violence — to leave her morals and upbringing behind for them. The point is, such psychopathic desire of controlling influence is not limited to some sort of a very narrow margin of people who have been diagnosed and locked away or put on pills (there aren’t any pills for that, by the way). Those are simply temptations, and well know where those ultimately come from, don’t we. Natural inclination may vary, but none of us are immune or exempt except through some sort of special gift from God that some saints have received.

Others simply have self-esteem issues, so they’re after being stared at or physically and emotionally exploited rather than loved and cherished and respected in a normal, healthy relationship. And those aren’t just one or two people out of a million, those issues are far more widespread.

 

[chevalier]

Maybe I’m just weird, but I only stare at things when I can’t figure them out. Something unattractive is just as likely to hold my attention as something attractive.

When out with my man recently at the mall, he had to do something on his phone and I ended up staring at this dude standing outside the men’s clothing store. Because I literally couldn’t figure out what he was wearing or what he was supposed to be doing. Some might have called him objectively attractive, but he had no appeal to me, and then I realized what it could have looked like I was doing.

His outfit didn’t go together and the shoes were ridiculous and he was twirling what I finally realized was a mannequin stand hook… I guess he was trying to make clothes shopping look cool to men? Idk, the whole thing was pretty strange. If he’d looked normal or was just walking by, I wouldn’t even have registered his existence.

I’m afraid you might be…

… human.

Humans are inquisite creatures. They focus on things for all sorts of reasons, only some of them remotely sexual. Unless, of course, sexuality is someone’s primary focus in life, but that’s just not healthy, and most people, including secular people, are probably not there.

 

[SilverShadow22]

Men are more visual and women are more acoustic but both respond to the other group of stimuli too. And while every woman is different (just like every man), if I could have a dollar for every instance I’ve heard or seen women comment on men’s looks, including private parts of their anatomy, especially the back side… I feel so amused when people think this never happens, whereas in reality it’s so commonplace. And both sexes are quite tactile anyway. For some the visuals might simply be the next best thing they aren’t going to face immediate punishment for.

I have literally never done this…

And the first time I’ve ever really been touched was last week. I stayed on his upper body… He’s the one who went all over.

And I like affirmation of my ability to dress well because the only male influence in my life, my father, always hates everything I do. So actually he made me HATE attention and fear judgment. So when someone says ‘nice skirt’ it affirms my taste and undoes his irrational criticism.

Luckily it didn’t take me over into desperate attention seeking.

 

[SilverShadow22]

I’m afraid you might be…

… human.

Humans are inquisite creatures. They focus on things for all sorts of reasons, only some of them remotely sexual. Unless, of course, sexuality is someone’s primary focus in life, but that’s just not healthy, and most people, including secular people, are probably not there.

I mentioned this mostly to point out that just because you stare at something, it doesn’t mean you like it. Trying to cut men some slack here, you know?

I’m not undercutting the OP… Because there’s something seriously off about that situation.

 

[SilverShadow22]

I’m afraid you might be…

… human.

Ugh… Please, no. I worked so hard not to be

 

[chevalier]

After the breeze wisped away, an older woman seated in front of me turned around, with her hand on her hip, and glowered, “Yoooou didn’t. But you wanted to!”

Some people are simply jealous of the attention others get but they don’t, for whatever reason. Looks are only one of the possible reasons and the easiest one to associate with lust. It’s always important to realize no promises or vows are going to turn our ‘significant others’ blind and deaf, nor even should they.

Wow. That’s eye-opening, Bucket, especially since my husband also dealt with the porn addiction as you did several years ago. I thought he was mainly “over it,” but maybe not - or maybe not entirely? Is it possible that the guilt he feels from that is helping to fuel his anger and bullying over the staring issue? Is it possible he’s staring so much and refusing to apologize because he feels too guilty to use the porn anymore? Is it possible he’s bullying because I’ve called him out on the staring when that might actually be his last resort if he can’t view porn anymore? I do notice that he channel surfs a lot when I’m not in the room, and I’ll sometimes find him looking at very suggestive shows with women scantilly dressed and such, and then he quickly flips the channel to something else when he sees me nearby, so I have been concerned about that, too. Thank you very much for the insight, Bucket. There’s an awful lot to think about here… God’s blessings to you.

Sometimes it takes a longer while for one’s nagging conscience to win. ‘Bullying’, i.e. verbal aggression intended to discourage you from doing whatever you were doing, may be a defensive reaction, and a passive-aggressive sort of thing. It’s also possible a perception of himself as blameless has formed a part of his identity for a long time and that also would take long to even begin to challenge and still long to fully process. But I wouldn’t like to comment further on this, as it’s better left to a psychologist or priest, depending on which side of the issue one wants to focus on.

Ugh… Please, no. I worked so hard not to be

(Brilliant. You made my day. )

And I like affirmation of my ability to dress well because the only male influence in my life, my father, always hates everything I do. So actually he made me HATE attention and fear judgment. So when someone says ‘nice skirt’ it affirms my taste and undoes his irrational criticism.

I think some people are hostile to even positive feedback once they become hostile to receiving any sort of feedback at all, as they tend to associate it with someone constantly judging them… and complicated parent-child and teacher-pupil relationships aren’t rare these days. A lot of what’s wrong with people goes back to childhood.

 

[bmaj]

…

If he watches porn and still believes himself to be an uncorrupted saint, then you guys have got a problem. He needs to stop being a bunch of nouns I deleted on second thoughts and do some growing up, which may be difficult to achieve without a counsellor.

Unfortunately, that’s what happens when one goes after secular people for romantic purposes.

Thank you for the above insight as well as the others, chevalier. I appreciate them. Interesting, though, is that one of the important reasons I married him was because I didn’t really think he was “secular.” He’s a cradle Catholic, Mass every Sunday then and still now. Unfortunately he seems to now be a cafeteria Catholic which is a large part of the problem.

 

[on_the_hill]

Withholding reconciliation from one’s contrite and repentant neighbour would hardly be Christian. For starters and most importantly, no matter how creepy a guy is, not wishing him salvation would be flirting with sin against the Holy Spirit. Do remember: ‘and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us,’ as well. You certainly wouldn’t consciously ask God to mirror that sort of forgiveness.

It’s not at the level of not wishing him salvation. More at the level of, "Yuck. I’m going to avoid him.’

 

[struggling4him]

Your husband is a pig and you have every reason to drop kick his sorry, mother****ing *** the next time he pulls that ****.

 

[bmaj]

Thanks very much, everyone. Things seem much better here lately - likely due in large part to some of the very excellent advice you’ve provided. May Our Lord bless you always for your assistance!

 

[Eugene]

I am a married man of nearly 20 years. Let me start by saying that to notice a beautiful woman is very natural - it’s the way God made us. However, to stare goes beyond what is considered acceptable in terms of appreciating the opposite sex. It is feeding the evil of lust which in itself breeds other undesirable habits.

Throughout the years, I have read various books on purity and chastity in marriage for men and have learned “evasive” techniques such as bouncing (when spotting a gorgeous woman - let the eyes bounce to something else), i.e. gaining custody of the eyes. But to be honest this is only possible once the man has the inner conviction that staring and dressing down other woman is not acceptable and is harmful to the marriage relationship. Another technique is to pray for that other woman - it is very difficult for the devil to get a foothold once a prayer is being offered. What also works for me is reciting my marriage vows particularly, “forsaking all others till death do us part”.

Believe you me it has not always been easy and sometimes I falter as well. This means Confession and starting again. There have been other “interested” woman and the temptations are strong but my marriage vows are always stronger! Praise God!

Do you and your husband pray together? Something I would encourage.

It does sound to me that there are some deep rooted issues which need to be worked through. How you go about it, I do not know enough details but suffice to say, always start with prayer. Ask the Lord for the grace to know what to do. Pray for the gift of wisdom and discernment - and remember to pray for your husband everyday. I would recommend Stormy Omartion’s “The power of a praying wife”. Read the Scriptures - the Word of God is so powerful.

Do not give up… you are never alone!

I will pray for you.

God bless.

 

[bmaj]

I am a married man of nearly 20 years. Let me start by saying that to notice a beautiful woman is very natural - it’s the way God made us. However, to stare goes beyond what is considered acceptable in terms of appreciating the opposite sex. It is feeding the evil of lust which in itself breeds other undesirable habits.

Throughout the years, I have read various books on purity and chastity in marriage for men and have learned “evasive” techniques such as bouncing (when spotting a gorgeous woman - let the eyes bounce to something else), i.e. gaining custody of the eyes. But to be honest this is only possible once the man has the inner conviction that staring and dressing down other woman is not acceptable and is harmful to the marriage relationship. Another technique is to pray for that other woman - it is very difficult for the devil to get a foothold once a prayer is being offered. What also works for me is reciting my marriage vows particularly, “forsaking all others till death do us part”.

Believe you me it has not always been easy and sometimes I falter as well. This means Confession and starting again. There have been other “interested” woman and the temptations are strong but my marriage vows are always stronger! Praise God!

Do you and your husband pray together? Something I would encourage.

It does sound to me that there are some deep rooted issues which need to be worked through. How you go about it, I do not know enough details but suffice to say, always start with prayer. Ask the Lord for the grace to know what to do. Pray for the gift of wisdom and discernment - and remember to pray for your husband everyday. I would recommend Stormy Omartion’s “The power of a praying wife”. Read the Scriptures - the Word of God is so powerful.

Do not give up… you are never alone!

I will pray for you.

God bless.

Thank you so much for your insights from a husband’s perspective, Eugene, as well as your prayers. It is all very much appreciated! Had not heard of Omartion’s book, but I will definitely look into it… and keep praying! You’re so right - the Word of God is amazingly powerful. God’s blessings to you as well.

 

[housedude]

Every time he does it, tell him with a little smile and a questioning expression " are you lusting?"