Question re: John the Baptist

[timotheos]

How do we know that John, born of Elizabeth and Zechariah, is the same John who became the Baptizer?

Although it clearly is Church tradition, I cannot find any scripture reference that connects the two.

Sorry if this is a dumb question.

 

[NotWorthy]

Doesn’t Gabriel prophecy it when he tells Zechariah that his son, John, would be “prophet of the Most High”?

 

[NotWorthy]

Look at Gabriel’s wording:

He will go before him in the spirit and power of Elijah to turn the hearts of fathers toward children and the disobedient to the understanding of the righteous, to prepare a people fit for the Lord.”

A) There are many verses in the Gospels that show that John was in the “spirit of Elijah”.

And then look at the Canticle of Zechariah:

And you, child, will be called prophet of the Most High, for you will go before the Lord* to prepare his ways, to give his people knowledge of salvation through the forgiveness of their sins,

B) John was certainly prophecy of the Coming of the Most High Jesus.
C) John the Baptists role was to “Prepare the Way of the Lord”.
D) John certainly preached a message of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

I’d say its pretty clear that Zechariah’s and Elizabeth’s son is none other than John the Baptist.

 

[timotheos]

Doesn’t Gabriel prophecy it when he tells Zechariah that his son, John, would be “prophet of the Most High”?

OK, yes, I see. I knew I was forgetting something.

I’m just pretty amazed by the whole story that John who lept in Elizabeth’s womb would become the great Baptizer twenty-odd years later. I know it’s a “duh”, but for some reason at this moment it strikes me as being just simply amazing, in a wonderful sort of way. The gospel writers’ heads must have been so overloaded with incredible things to communicate that not every tidbit would get nailed down. I suppose if everything was written down and documented, the world itself could not contain all of the books.

 

[timotheos]

Look at Gabriel’s wording:

He will go before him in the spirit and power of Elijah to turn the hearts of fathers toward children and the disobedient to the understanding of the righteous, to prepare a people fit for the Lord.”

A) There are many verses in the Gospels that show that John was in the “spirit of Elijah”.

And then look at the Canticle of Zechariah:

And you, child, will be called prophet of the Most High, for you will go before the Lord* to prepare his ways, to give his people knowledge of salvation through the forgiveness of their sins,

B) John was certainly prophecy of the Coming of the Most High Jesus.
C) John the Baptists role was to “Prepare the Way of the Lord”.
D) John certainly preached a message of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

I’d say its pretty clear that Zechariah’s and Elizabeth’s son is none other than John the Baptist.

Thanks, NotWorthy. I know I’ve read this many times, but right now it’s like I’m reading it for the first time – that this is all that God inspired Luke to write, so poetic and concise, and God knew the connection would be made without need for further verbage.

Scripture is so cool sometimes. It’s like, so NOT inspired by plain human beings.

 

[kkollwitz]

In Mattthew 17, Jesus specifically ties John the Baptist to Gabriel’s prophecy:

10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elijah must first come?
11 And he answered and said, Elijah indeed cometh, and shall restore all things:
12 but I say into you, that Elijah is come already, and they knew him not, but did unto him whatsoever they would. Even so shall the Son of man also suffer of them.
13 Then understood the disciples that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

 

[kkollwitz]

I should add that Gabriel’s prophecy is based on the last prophecy in the last lines of the Old Testament in the Book of Malachi:
"Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and terrible day of the LORD comes. 6* And he will turn the hearts of fathers to their children and the hearts of children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the land with a curse."

 

[NotWorthy]

OK, yes, I see. I knew I was forgetting something.

I’m just pretty amazed by the whole story that John who lept in Elizabeth’s womb would become the great Baptizer twenty-odd years later. I know it’s a “duh”, but for some reason at this moment it strikes me as being just simply amazing, in a wonderful sort of way. The gospel writers’ heads must have been so overloaded with incredible things to communicate that not every tidbit would get nailed down. I suppose if everything was written down and documented, the world itself could not contain all of the books.

I think that’s why Scripture is written the way it is. Every time you go over it, you have a chance of getting something new out of it. As you well know, you tend to appreciate the things that you have to work for, rather than the things that are spoon-fed.

 

[timotheos]

In Mattthew 17, Jesus specifically ties John the Baptist to Gabriel’s prophecy:

10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elijah must first come?
11 And he answered and said, Elijah indeed cometh, and shall restore all things:
12 but I say into you, that Elijah is come already, and they knew him not, but did unto him whatsoever they would. Even so shall the Son of man also suffer of them.
13 Then understood the disciples that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

Yeah, thanks, John the Baptist was definitely identified here also as the same little baby cousin John. I was just reflecting on how the same John in Elizabeth’s womb is the same John as the Baptist, but the connection in scripture is linked only by to Gabriel’s announcement to Zechariah, which is a story that was probably transmitted later by Mary. In later years we get no indication that the adult John knew that Jesus was his second cousin, and I suppose it’s possible that he didn’t (Jn 1:31). Zechariah and Elizabeth were old and may have passed away early in John’s childhood, and John might not have been told the angel’s prophecy about him or Jesus. Jesus didn’t talk about his blood relationship with John, at least as we know. For John to proclaim, “Behold the Lamb of God!”, it just might have been at least partly a divine-inspired reaction on the same level as stirring in the womb in Jesus’ presence.

 

[kkollwitz]

I have supposed that at a minimum Mary would have told Jesus that John was his cousin; and that Elizabeth would’ve said the same to John.