Question re: past IVF cycles/embryos..what now?

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kerrywm

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Hello!
This post will talk about past infertility including IVF cycles. Please do not read if this may upset you. Thank you.

My husband and I suffered with infertility for many years. Finally we did ivf cycles once in 2003 and once in 2006 and we now have 2 children.

Since Jan 2008 I have rediscovered God and returned to the Church. I have confessed the sins of infertility treatments.

My question is that we have two embryos that are frozen from our previous ivf cycle. We just do not know what we are supposed to do now. I know it is against Church teachings to do ivf. I also understand it is against church teaching to “discard” the embryos. We also have serious problems with destroying them. Now i understand the moral conflict with ivf. We do not know what to do.

I feel like we are forced to choose the “least wrong thing” if there is such a thing in this scenario. When we talk about it, we think we should go forward and try to give the embryos the beest chance of survival even though it is against the teachings of the church. That it is not “as bad” as destroying them for the sake of destroying them… The other option is to store them indefinately, but that doesnt seem right either.

Please do not “I told you so” me about IVf and how wrong it is. I undestand it now. I have prayed on this so much since coming back to the Church this year. I wouldnt trade my children for anything, but I believe we would have taken a different path had I had the relationship with God that I have today back then, I was in a very different place. I am simply looking for guidance about what to do next. I havent spoken to my priest about it yet.

Thank you.
 
I don’t think the sin is in bearing life; it is creating it outside the womb. Having repented of this sin, I don’t see how it could be wrong for you to implant them and try to carry them to term. It would be different if you tried to go for more rounds of IVF and were creating new embryos.

If you look at it this way, a single woman might have a one night stand and become pregnant. Well, is she supposed to abort the baby because the baby was not conceived according to God’s plan? No, the only morally correct thing for the woman to do now is to carry and have the baby. You can’t compound one sin with another sin.
 
The best advice would come from the Paul VI Institute. if they don’t have an answer on the site, I am sure they will help you with an answer via phone or email.
 
From what I understand, the Church’s ruling has not yet been established in a case like this…(snowflake babies, etc). Who would have thought that the church would have to speak on such a matter?

Here is my take on it, and I will of course always accept whatever the church rules…

The actual sinful act was the fertilzation of the embryos. That part is over,
Now that it is a living human being, one must care for it as such…so I would think that having babies, if possible would be the correct thing to do.

From my understanding, there isn’t a way to save the embryo from an ectopic pregnancy, but eventually, (hopefully), there might be, and the action would be implanting the embryo in the uterus, which would be the same action you would have to take here.

Keep in mind this is the philosophical break down of the action. The practical aspects of this, is a possible black market for “adoptable embryos”…the ones discarded, etc.

Talk to a priest.
 
Sorry to draw a completely-out-of-the-loop opinion on your situation – meaning I haven’t suffered from serious infertility and therefor I have not really looked that much (other than what I have learned on CAF that is) into the whole IVF and “church teaching” issue. My only logical conclusion to your scenario is to try to save both their lives by having them implanted?

Well that is what makes sense to me, but I really don’t have any authority on this issue – but just to state my knee-jerk reaction.

Yes, I realize it won’t be from the marital embrace – but it’s a bit late for that right? There is still two possible babies there!!

If I am wrong I am sure someone will be along to shoot me down.

But logically – you already created these children, so my best guess would be you try to bear them. 🤷
 
I just thought of something:

We all are pro-life…which means we don’t value a life more just because it is “born” (outside the womb)…

Now, it seems the question is whether we value the life more if it was INSIDE the womb…Just because the embryo is not implanted, doesn’t mean it has any less value.

Just trying to logically talk it out.
 
KCtheMommy said:
Sorry to draw a completely-out-of-the-loop opinion on your situation – meaning I haven’t suffered from serious infertility and therefor I have not really looked that much (other than what I have learned on CAF that is) into the whole IVF and “church teaching” issue. My only logical conclusion to your scenario is to try to save both their lives by having them implanted?

Well that is what makes sense to me, but I really don’t have any authority on this issue – but just to state my knee-jerk reaction.

Yes, I realize it won’t be from the marital embrace – but it’s a bit late for that right? There is still two possible babies there!!

If I am wrong I am sure someone will be along to shoot me down.

But logically – you already created these children, so my best guess would be you try to bear them. 🤷
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Tothe OP: Welcome home!!:clapping:

I am with you KC! I would speak to a priest also, but I’d be willing to bet since the babies are already “here” in a since, the right thing to do would be to carry them to term.
 
KCtheMommy said:
Sorry to draw a completely-out-of-the-loop opinion on your situation – meaning I haven’t suffered from serious infertility and therefor I have not really looked that much (other than what I have learned on CAF that is) into the whole IVF and “church teaching” issue. My only logical conclusion to your scenario is to try to save both their lives by having them implanted?

Well that is what makes sense to me, but I really don’t have any authority on this issue – but just to state my knee-jerk reaction.

Yes, I realize it won’t be from the marital embrace – but it’s a bit late for that right? There is still two possible babies there!!

If I am wrong I am sure someone will be along to shoot me down.

But logically – you already created these children, so my best guess would be you try to bear them. 🤷
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I agree, these babies already exist and they are your children. You can try to have them complete their growth within you. They deserve a chance at life. Implanting them, I believe, would be the best thing to do. You couldn’t leave them in storage indefinitely, or give them up for research…so I agree with KC, please try to allow them to be born. I think that is the best solution.
 
You really need to talk with an ethicist. The Church does not advocate using extraordinary means to preserve life. How that applies in your situation would have to be discerned with prayer and moral reasoning.

Here is a link to the National Catholic Bioethics Center consultation services. informationsecured.com/ncbc2/consultation.asp
The National Catholic Bioethics Center (Center) is a non-profit research and educational institute committed to applying the moral teachings of the Catholic Church to ethical issues arising in health care and the life sciences. The Center provides consultations to institutions and individuals seeking its opinion on the appropriate application of Catholic moral teachings to these ethical issues. Neither the Center’s moral analyses nor any other project of the Center should be construed as an attempt to offer or render a legal or medical opinion or otherwise to engage in the practice of law or medicine, or other health care disciplines.
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First off, I’m sorry you are faced with this difficult decision. I have suffered with infertility myself and I understand the pain that comes with longing for a child. :hug1:

This is how I understand it: the church does not condone IVF, however once IVF has been done (i.e. the babies are created in a lab) then it gets into a gray area. The church has not made an official ruling on whether or not embryo adoption is permissable so it is up to a Catholic to read up on it, consult their priest, and make the best decision they can in good conscience. Many of the objections I have heard about embryo adoption is that it would be unnatural and somehow violating the marital bond to place the child of another person in the body of someone who is not the biological mother. That would not apply to your situation as these babies are biologically yours and your spouses.

So as I see it, I agree with KC–the sin was using IVF to conceive your children. It is not a sin to give your babies a chance at life.

If I had frozen embryos and I then realized how wrong IVF was, I would give my babies a chance to live. 🙂

You are in my prayers–please let us know what you decide to do!

KG
 
Whenever I post about IVF I usually come down hard on it, but you already know why. If you can afford it, I would recommend that you try to carry those babies and give them a chance at being a part of your family. May God bless you and them!
 
The Church would not only permit you to carry these two children in your womb, but would urge you to do so. These little children have an inherent and natural right to be brought up in a home with their biological mother and father. The children must be put first.

Now, if the mother is unable to carry them in her womb (for eg., if the mother had a hysterectomy or there is some other medical reason), then she would have to prayerfully consider whether to donate the embryos to the Snowflake program or leave them be. Some people wonder if there is an ethical problem with placing these embryos in the womb of a non-biological parent, but there is never a problem with placing them in the womb of their own biological mother! The Church has not made a ruling on the Snowflake program as of yet (so Catholics are free to let their conscience lead them to a decision) though an expert on EWTN said they are leaning towards ruling that Snowflake is a greater good than leaving the embryos be. But who knows what will happen.

The evil of IVF is in the past and you have repented of this. The choice of bringing your own little children, who already exist, to birth is a good and praiseworthy choice.
Many blessings on all your children!
 
Thank you everyone for your thoughtful replies. I appreciate it so very much.

As we continue to talk about this issue at home, we know in our hearts that we do not want to send them off to be “adopted” by another couple. The more we pray about it, the more it is apparent that these are in fact our little babies. It makes me very sad that they are in the state that they are in.

Once we had our son (2nd child), we thought we would not have any other children. We do not have space in our home (only 2 bed rooms with 4 people already). We do not have the money as it stands right now. But we ignored the fact that we had these embryos., Or we tried too, I guess. But they are still here. I almost look at this as our version of God not giving us more than we can handle… I see many wonderful Catholic families who let God bless them with children, many of them! They always seem to have what they need to raise their families.

I guess in a way we do not have the right to decide that we are “done” having children when we have these embryos out there. We just have to give them the best chance and implant them.

Of course the more we come to realize that this is the way we should go, the more I fear that the embryos will not survive getting ready to be implanted…😦 I guess I just have to give it up to God and let him do what He will,

Thank you so much.
Kerry
 
Since the church hasn’t ruled against snowflake adoption and has left it to our consciences then I’d guess going ahead and attempting to give these children life would be morally acceptable. I would check with the NCBC. They have given me good explanations and advice in the past on a different matter.

If adoption is out then your other alternative is to baptize the children and let them die a natural death. This would not be a sin because IVF is certainly extraordinary measures. ( of course this is assuming that they are alive but I think the church would allow the benefit of the doubt and not enforce and strict test to check on that.)

I offer you prayers that you make a decision you are at peace with . For what it’s worth- you seem to be in a good place with God in dealing with all this now. I’m proud of you as a sister in Christ.
 
I didn’t realize there was a financial strain as well. That must be scary. If it is any consolation, my grandparents didn’t have much either. Each time my grandmother got pregnant (the 7th time, 8th time….11th time, 12th time……), they trusted in God, and my grandfather would get a little raise! They felt like the richest people on the block because they had each other. Maybe God has a beautiful plan for those children and you will know it some day.
 
CatholicMomUSA said:
I didn’t realize there was a financial strain as well. That must be scary. If it is any consolation, my grandparents didn’t have much either. Each time my grandmother got pregnant (the 7th time, 8th time….11th time, 12th time……), they trusted in God, and my grandfather would get a little raise! They felt like the richest people on the block because they had each other. Maybe God has a beautiful plan for those children and you will know it some day.
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Well, I dont want to give the impression that we are poor. We arent. But we live in an urban setting in an old house that is small and needs work (its a family home that we really need to stay in for various reasons). Becuase it is an urban setting, we do not feel comfortable sending our oldest to public school. She goes to one of our local Catholic schools. It is not expensive in the grand scheme of things. Especially compared to the approx 800 a month we pay for my son to be in day care. We have student loans. We make a moderate salary (my husband teachers full time and I teach part time) but we have those expenses. We are working on getting rid of the student loans but that is a big bill!

We could make it work, I am sure. I have also had thoughts (probably nutso thoughts) of home schooling if in fact both of the embryos survived, impanted and were actually allowed to develop in the womb and be born! That would be four children and I dont think sending 4 children to and/or then Catholic school. I don’t know! It is scary to think about any of the options. I get nervous thast I could have 4 children, but then I get very sad that the embryos may not make it at all. I guess that is not fo rme to decide…

Thanks again for all of your responses so far.
 
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