question regarding baptism

[BayernAnhaenger]

so, i was talking to my friend today (it was through AIM, because he’s at a college across country), and the topic of baptism came up. this is what he had to say:

friend: like our religion states that you need to be baptized to go to heaven
friend: well, guess what, theres 2 different kinds of baptisms
friend: the physical and the spiritual
friend: you dont need to be baptized in real life to be really baptized
friend: and catholics recognize just about everyone else’s baptisms

now, from what i know of baptism, i know you need to be baptized, and that if you aren’t, you have to have not known of Christ and such, but, is what he said true. this does not sound familiar to me at all. any help if appreciated. he had said his bible study leader told him all of this.

thanks all!
love the forums!
andy

 

[Huiou_Theou]

Your friend is partly right.

There are three kinds of baptisms recognized by the Church.

The baptism of Water.
The baptism of blood.
The baptism of desire.

The last mentioned baptism is also the least.
It is not true that the Catholic church recognizes the baptisms of virtually everyone else – because Jesus specifically requires the baptism to be “in the name of the Father, son, and holy spirit.”

There are many religious denominations which baptize in “the name of Jesus” which is not a valid formula. There is also the requirement for ‘water’ to be used in the baptism.

Without writing a long book on the subject – Baptism of Water is required when possible: eg. to knowingly reject an opportunity of being baptized with water excludes the other forms of baptism.
(Vis. one does not have desire if they knowingly refuse to do as Jesus asked). Martyrdom – Baptism of blood, comes to those who are preparing for baptism of water – but are executed because of their faith in Jesus before they receive it. This form of Baptism is equivalent to Desire – but with an additional perfection of dying for christ literally rather than symbolically. Those who die in martyrdom are received immediately into heaven and more perfectly since they are conformed to Jesus more perfectly.

Hope this helps: If you need verses and the like – let us know.

 

[John_Henry]

;friend: like our religion states that you need to be baptized to go to heaven
friend: well, guess what, theres 2 different kinds of baptisms
friend: the physical and the spiritual
friend: you dont need to be baptized in real life to be really baptized
friend: and catholics recognize just about everyone else’s baptisms

Catholics do recognize many people’s baptisms as valid. If you are baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, with water, then you are good. As for the two baptisms, it is a view held by some Protestants. In this view, water baptism is not necessary for salvation. What is necessary is the “baptism of the Spirit”:

by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body (1 Cor 12:13)

While it is certainly true that we are “baptized by the Spirit”, the Catholic Church would hold that this baptism of the Spirit occurs during water baptism. I.e., they are two ways of describing the same event, seen as we receive the Holy Spirit in baptism.

That’s a brief explanation. Others may know more.

 

[Verbum]

Hi Bayern__,

Believers in Christ can only be saved by receiving baptism with water. If they have the intention of receiving baptism but die before receiving it, they will be saved. If they are killed for their faith, they are saved.

Non believers who are sincere in whatever faith they have and who try to please God in their own way are deemed to have baptsim of desire, in the sense that, were they to be exposed to the true faith and understand it fully, they would join it. They therefore can be saved.

Verbum

 

[Fidelis]

Jesus said it was necessary for us to be baptised (John 3:5). He was baptised himself as an example (Mark 1:9-11). He commanded His Church to baptise (Matthew 28:16-20). The early Church taught baptism is necessary for salvation (Acts 2:37-39; 1 Peter 3:20-21). Nothing could be clearer than the necessity of being baptised.

There are, of course, exceptions (such as baptism of blood/desire, and the case of the Good Thief who repented on the cross), but baptism is the normal way that God has both revealed and commanded we do.

While God has revealed to us ways that he has acted, and has bound us to observe certain laws and practices, **He Himself **is in no way bound by these specific ways. If He was, He would not be sovereign and omnipotent. Thus, since since He is God, if He wants to make a special exception, He can.

 

[John_Henry]

There are three kinds of baptisms recognized by the Church.

The baptism of Water.
The baptism of blood.
The baptism of desire.

If they have the intention of receiving baptism but die before receiving it, they will be saved. If they are killed for their faith, they are saved.

(such as baptism of blood/desire, and the case of the Good Thief who repented on the cross),

All these are true, but it is not what his Protestant friend was talking about.

 

[Verbum]

Hi John Henry,

Obviously, it is difficult to understand what the Protestant friend is talking about. By giving a comprehensive summary on baptism, one hopes an appropriate answer will be found.

Verbum

 

[Fidelis]

Obviously, it is difficult to understand what the Protestant friend is talking about. By giving a comprehensive summary on baptism, one hopes an appropriate answer will be found.

That’s right. His friend seemed to be a little all-over the page. Precise questions tend to beget precise answers.

 

[John_Henry]

friend: like our religion states that you need to be baptized to go to heaven
friend: well, guess what, theres 2 different kinds of baptisms
friend: the physical and the spiritual
friend: you dont need to be baptized in real life to be really baptized
friend: and catholics recognize just about everyone else’s baptisms

In line with what I was saying earlier, here are a couple of links to what your friend is speaking of:

carm.org/questions/baptism_Spirit.htm

christiananswers.net/q-acb/acb-t004.html

These explanations will show you that what your friend is speaking of is (not surprisingly) contrary to Catholic teaching. Most, if not all, of the verses they pull to prove a “baptism of the Spirit” separate from water baptism really are referring to the gift of the Holy Spirit in (water) baptism.