Question Regarding Charismatic Catholicism

[SerfOfJMJ]

Okay, so I’m converting to the Church from Mormonism. Prior to that I was raised Pentecostal Holiness. I firmly believe in the Gift of Tongues and at times when moved on by the Holy Spirit do speak in tongues.

However, I don’t agree with the whole “everyone speak in tongues and just keep doing it until someone falls out in the Spirit (slain in the Spirit), gives an interpretation, or until we just feel good about ourselves”.

The moments in which I have prayed/spoke in tongues, I have witnessed miraculous answers to prayers or protection. Even prophesyings and interpretations.

I still enjoy Southern Gospel and Contemporary Christian Music and feel the Spirit through them. However, when I go to Mass, I enjoy focusing on Mass and Eucharistic Adoration.

What is a Charismatic Mass like? Is it kept in order as Paul dictated it should?

I know the past few Popes have approved the Charismatic Renewal. However, I’ve also read stories in which those who are involved with this Renewal not following proper procedures such as exorcisms and healings.

Can anyone also clarify what the standards are for a Charismatic Mass and how to know if the bishop needs to be notified that the teachings of the Magisterium are not being followed?

 

[OurLadysServant]

Welcome home to the True Church founded by Our Lord 2000 years ago!

Read ‘Spiritual Warfare’ by Stella Davis (available on amazon.com, paperback or ebook download and you can read it on smart phone, laptop, tablet , or computer -because the reading app is free). This is the life story of a woman in the healing/ deliverance ministry (charismatic renewal also) and how she uses tongues in her ministry.

Go to amazon.com
Linda Schubert has an ebook out about ‘Tongues’, showing in testimonies how it can be used for any prayer you want to say.

Tongues can be used for ANYTHING. It’s the Holy Spirit giving you the words. You may not know what they mean. But God does.

I was at a mass where a priest said he was in Medjugorje and they had to do a exorcism on a woman. And they tried everything. Only one thing worked for that particular woman -tongues. When a priest prayed in tongues over her, the evil spirit left.
Tongues is good for spiritual warfare, for asking for guidance. Anything at all.

A lay evangelist in the healing ministry in my country prays in tongues over people at healing masses, he has great gifts of the Holy Spirit (a living saint), there are healings from God, people slain in the Spirit, etc…

I’ve been at charismatic masses. Such as Life in the Spirit, or Baptism in the Spirit novena of masses.

There are praise songs with everyone singing before mass (clapping, raising hands, standing, holding hands)
Then mass as normal. Except that the hymns are chosen to be healing hymns (a lot of the worship type hymns you mentioned, full of the Holy Spirit),
Mass is as normal otherwise. During the sermon the priest might talk about the Holy Spirit. A speaker is called for each of the Life in the Spirit novena of masses who has some experience of the Holy Spirit. After mass on the last night is the laying on of hands for renewal of baptism in the Holy Spirit. Or if a speaker in the Healing Ministry spoke during one of the masses, then he will do the laying on of hands asking The Lord to heal people after mass.

Most important thing: obedience to the Church, the Holy Spirit does not lead away from the sacraments and teachings of the Catholic Church, and bringing Our Lady’s intercession into things, she has more intercession than any angel when we ask her to pray for us

Okay, so I’m converting to the Church from Mormonism. Prior to that I was raised Pentecostal Holiness. I firmly believe in the Gift of Tongues and at times when moved on by the Holy Spirit do speak in tongues.

However, I don’t agree with the whole “everyone speak in tongues and just keep doing it until someone falls out in the Spirit (slain in the Spirit), gives an interpretation, or until we just feel good about ourselves”.

The moments in which I have prayed/spoke in tongues, I have witnessed miraculous answers to prayers or protection. Even prophesyings and interpretations.

I still enjoy Southern Gospel and Contemporary Christian Music and feel the Spirit through them. However, when I go to Mass, I enjoy focusing on Mass and Eucharistic Adoration.

What is a Charismatic Mass like? Is it kept in order as Paul dictated it should?

I know the past few Popes have approved the Charismatic Renewal. However, I’ve also read stories in which those who are involved with this Renewal not following proper procedures such as exorcisms and healings.

Can anyone also clarify what the standards are for a Charismatic Mass and how to know if the bishop needs to be notified that the teachings of the Magisterium are not being followed?

 

[SerfOfJMJ]

Tongues can be used for ANYTHING. It’s the Holy Spirit giving you the words. You may not know what they mean. But God does.

Amen to that. And I don’t concern myself with the interpretation unless it’s meant to be known to me or those I’m speaking in front of.

I was at a mass where a priest said he was in Medjugorje and they had to do a exorcism on a woman. And they tried everything. Only one thing worked for that particular woman -tongues. When a priest prayed in tongues over her, the evil spirit left. Tongues is good for spiritual warfare, for asking for guidance. Anything at all.

Wow. I know that’s not a part of the Rite of Exorcism. I’ve seen tongues expel demons in the Pentecostal church. Powerful gift of the Spirit.

Most important thing: obedience to the Church, the Holy Spirit does not lead away from the sacraments and teachings of the Catholic Church, and bringing Our Lady’s intercession into things, she has more intercession than any angel when we ask her to pray for us

Very true. Thanks be to God for the True Catholic and Apostolic Church.

 

[JackVk]

I was just on a retreat this weekend with a charismatic Catholic group called Saint Paul’s Outreach. The Mass we had on Sunday was as beautiful any, and really no different.

Since this was my first full exposure to the Charismatic Renewal, I found it interesting. They told us how silent prayer was rare in biblical times. The praise and worship sessions we had were mostly singing and praying out loud.

We also got in groups and prayed over each other extemporaneously. They also mentioned something called “Baptism in the Spirit” (but nothing about it indicated it was sacramental baptism; just a name, perhaps?)

In all, I liked it. I think Charismatics have a sort of “unconventional orthodoxy” about them; they preach the Gospel of Christ without resorting to cliches and hackneyed methods of evangelization.

 

[SerfOfJMJ]

In all, I liked it. I think Charismatics have a sort of “unconventional orthodoxy” about them; they preach the Gospel of Christ without resorting to cliches and hackneyed methods of evangelization.

Awesome. That’s probably right where I wanna be.

 

[grannymh]

This link is to the book A Key to Charismatic Renewal in the Catholic Church,
by Msgr. Vincent M. Walsh

brendancase.com/uploads/Key_to_the_Charismatic_Renewal.pdf

 

[SerfOfJMJ]

This link is to the book A Key to Charismatic Renewal in the Catholic Church,
by Msgr. Vincent M. Walsh

brendancase.com/uploads/Key_to_the_Charismatic_Renewal.pdf

Thanks, grannymh! Will try to read some of it tomorrow.

 

[esieffe]

If you are speaking of Acts 2:1-13 It says people who spoke in different languages / foreign tongues, were able to understand one another. That is different then speaking in an unknown tongue, and being able to understand it. As far as the other Biblical references discussed by Paul, well I will let it stand on it’s own merits.

Having grown up in the south, I attribute this practice with groups that I found to be unwelcoming and mean spirited to those from different denominations. Even worse most of these were a skip and a jump away from the back woods snake handlers. Not comfortable with this stuff at all, but I do admit that this is based on cultural differences and associations. One seemed to go with the other. The meanness and tongues. This is just MY personal experience and feelings.

When I was younger, I worked as an alarm technician and stopped off in one of our small offices to get equipment. This office had a common back hallway with restrooms shared by the other tenants, one of which was a primitive strip mall Protestant church. I had visit the facilities and church was in session. In the hallway I ran into my first “tongue” speaker. My first thought was that he was high on drugs, then I quickly put two and two together. Not a good experience. Others came out and it was like a zombie movie.

I was a bit disappointed when I found out that there were a few Catholics who spoke in tongues, but I deal with it, and despite what I have written above, I don’t consider it wrong or evil, I just don’t care for it. The only reason why I post this at all is simply to point out to any fellow Catholic readers that this is not a universal practice, at least I hope not, and I have never seen it at any Catholic Church in the many I have visited or the one I attend.

Peace be with you all.
-E

 

[DebChris]

The Charismatic Renewal within the Catholic Church has been accepted and endorsed by papal authority starting with Pope Paul VI. It is a work of the Holy Spirit mentioned in the United States Catechism of the Catholic Church for Adults, along with other ways in which the Holy Spirit works.
No, the gift of tongues is not a requirement for salvation. It is simply that, a gift, a sign of God’s gratuitous grace in a person’s life. It is often misunderstood by those who do not have the gift, just as the Apostles at Pentecost were seen to be drunk.
It is easier to experience a Charismatic Mass than to describe it. It will follow the same rubrics as any Mass that you might attend. The silence may be deeper as you experience the presence of the living God, especially after receiving the Eucharist. Most of us are familiar with this silence and presence after Communion.
Sometimes a Charismatic Mass is part of a Healing Mass. In keeping with the rubrics of the Mass, healing prayers will be prayed over individuals at the conclusion of the Mass.
Pope Francis has stated that he was once skeptical of the Charismatic Renewal, but has come to accept it as a real work of the Holy Spirit.

 

[OurLadysServant]

One of the best writers on the charismatic renewal in the Catholic Church is Fr Robert de Grandis.
His books are available paperback.

He has a book about each of the sacraments and each of the charisms of the Holy Spirit .
This priest had a worldwide healing and deliverance ministry, and had been given most of the Holy Spirit’s charisms by God.

Some of his books are, ‘Tongues’, ‘The Word of Knowledge,’ ‘The Word of Wisdom,’ ‘Healing the Family Tree,’ ‘prophecy,’ ‘Healing through confession,’ ‘Healing through the mass,’
You can google his books, a website you would love is ‘spiritdaily.com’ it has books on such topics. His books are also available on amazon.com

I would strongly recommend any of his books if you want to learn more about any charism from a catholic point of view .

The catechism does state, the Holy Spirits gifts are to be used for the building up of the church. A priest spiritual director experienced with the Holy Spirit is often needed to guide the individual (to keep check that everything is of the Holy Spirit)

 

[DebChris]

One of the best writers on the charismatic renewal in the Catholic Church is Fr Robert de Grandis.
His books are available paperback.

He has a book about each of the sacraments and each of the charisms of the Holy Spirit .
This priest had a worldwide healing and deliverance ministry, and had been given most of the Holy Spirit’s charisms by God.

Some of his books are, ‘Tongues’, ‘The Word of Knowledge,’ ‘The Word of Wisdom,’ ‘Healing the Family Tree,’ ‘prophecy,’ ‘Healing through confession,’ ‘Healing through the mass,’
You can google his books, a website you would love is ‘spiritdaily.com’ it has books on such topics. His books are also available on amazon.com

I would strongly recommend any of his books if you want to learn more about any charism from a catholic point of view .

The catechism does state, the Holy Spirits gifts are to be used for the building up of the church. A priest spiritual director experienced with the Holy Spirit is often needed to guide the individual (to keep check that everything is of the Holy Spirit)

Discernment is an important gift of the Holy Spirit that develops over time.
Three questions to ask? Is it in keeping with Scripture? Is it in keeping with my current situation? Is it in keeping with the magisterium of the Catholic Church?
The OP asked about Charismatic Masses. One thing that you will find at a Catholic Charismatic Conference is individuals who have been members of the Renewal for a long time and who are known for their gift of discernment. Before a prophecy is spoken, or scripture read, it is first given to the discernment team to ensure that it is from the Holy Spirit and meant for the whole community.

 

[SerfOfJMJ]

No, the gift of tongues is not a requirement for salvation. It is simply that, a gift, a sign of God’s gratuitous grace in a person’s life. It is often misunderstood by those who do not have the gift, just as the Apostles at Pentecost were seen to be drunk.

Exactly. Unlike the Pentecostals seem to believe.

Pope Francis has stated that he was once skeptical of the Charismatic Renewal, but has come to accept it as a real work of the Holy Spirit.

Thanks be to God!

 

[SerfOfJMJ]

Discernment is an important gift of the Holy Spirit that develops over time.

This is another gift I have and yes it does develop over time. The more in tune one is with the Holy Spirit, the more sensitive one is to detecting the evil one and his angels.

 

[me_again]

Okay, so I’m converting to the Church from Mormonism. Prior to that I was raised Pentecostal Holiness. I firmly believe in the Gift of Tongues and at times when moved on by the Holy Spirit do speak in tongues.

However, I don’t agree with the whole “everyone speak in tongues and just keep doing it until someone falls out in the Spirit (slain in the Spirit), gives an interpretation, or until we just feel good about ourselves”.

The moments in which I have prayed/spoke in tongues, I have witnessed miraculous answers to prayers or protection. Even prophesyings and interpretations.

I still enjoy Southern Gospel and Contemporary Christian Music and feel the Spirit through them. However, when I go to Mass, I enjoy focusing on Mass and Eucharistic Adoration.

What is a Charismatic Mass like? Is it kept in order as Paul dictated it should?

I know the past few Popes have approved the Charismatic Renewal. However, I’ve also read stories in which those who are involved with this Renewal not following proper procedures such as exorcisms and healings.

Can anyone also clarify what the standards are for a Charismatic Mass and how to know if the bishop needs to be notified that the teachings of the Magisterium are not being followed?

Speaking in tongues in private
The Apostle Paul wrote, “I speak in tongues more than you all!!! And I wish you all spoke in tongues.” Paul explained that when we speak in tongues, we are speaking heavenly mysteries and nobody knows what it means. It edifies our spirit. That’s the purpose.

Speaking in tongues in Church
But conversely, Paul wrote, “I would rather you speak five words of understanding [not in tongues] when you are assembled together, instead of speaking 10,000 words in tongues that nobody can understand.” Paul explained four things about speaking in tongues when we are in Church with others:

1. When we are assembled together, we should not speak in tongues
2. UNLESS it is orderly
3. and WITH an interpreter
4. and with no more than two or three people doing it.

 

[SerfOfJMJ]

1. When we are assembled together, we should not speak in tongues
2. UNLESS it is orderly
3. and WITH an interpreter
4. and with no more than two or three people doing it.

Here’s a question, because this is an experience in the Pentecostal church that I’ve often run into. If we are assembled together and we are praying in tongues but in our prayer languages is that still considered disorderly?

 

[Sirach2]

Here’s a question, because this is an experience in the Pentecostal church that I’ve often run into. If we are assembled together and we are praying in tongues but in our prayer languages is that still considered disorderly?

This is usually low-key personal prayer in the Holy Spirit unto God, and not in a prophetic tongue for the assembly, so yes, it would not be considered disorderly.

See Jude 20.

 

[SerfOfJMJ]

This is usually low-key personal prayer in the Holy Spirit unto God, and not in a prophetic tongue for the assembly, so yes, it would not be considered disorderly.

See Jude 20.

That’s what I thought. Thanks for the clarification!

 

[grannymh]

Here’s a question, because this is an experience in the Pentecostal church that I’ve often run into. If we are assembled together and we are praying in tongues but in our prayer languages is that still considered disorderly?

There are two separate gifts of the Holy Spirit which employ the use of Tongues.

The first is known as the common gift of praying/praising God. Common because it is available to all persons.

The second gift using Tongues is listed in the classical list of St. Paul, 1 Corinthians 12: 4-10. In this list, the gift of prophesy is speaking God’s message to the assembly in the vernacular. “Varieties of Tongues” or the Gift of speaking in Tongues is when a person speaks God’s message in Tongues to the assembled community. It is accompanied by the Gift of Interpretation. The nine gifts mentioned in 1 Corinthians 12: 4-10 are considered ministries since their intention is to build up the Church.
1 Corinthians 14 : 26-33 describes the order in an assembly.

The common gift of praying in tongues is not directed to the community, but rather it is directed to God Himself. Thus, we can use this gift of Tongues to praise God, to petition God, to ask for His mercy, to pray over people and so on.

One of the blessings is when people gather together to praise God, to give their love to God by using their personal gift of Tongues. This is usually a joyous event. Sometimes, the group sings in tongues. Charismatic Prayer meetings do have order in that there is a definite place for praying and praising in Tongues. There is also a place where there is quiet and silent prayer to prepare for God’s grace for the community via one or more of the nine classical gifts or ministries. These gifts are directed to the community.

Personally, I have gotten away from the term prayer language, but I do understand what you are referring to. The important thing about prayer language is that we yield to the Holy Spirit. In that sense, there is not a huge difference between Tongues used in prayer to God and Tongues used to give a message to the community.

 

[SerfOfJMJ]

There are two separate gifts of the Holy Spirit which employ the use of Tongues.

The first is known as the common gift of praying/praising God. Common because it is available to all persons.

The second gift using Tongues is listed in the classical list of St. Paul, 1 Corinthians 12: 4-10. In this list, the gift of prophesy is speaking God’s message to the assembly in the vernacular. “Varieties of Tongues” or the Gift of speaking in Tongues is when a person speaks God’s message in Tongues to the assembled community. It is accompanied by the Gift of Interpretation. The nine gifts mentioned in 1 Corinthians 12: 4-10 are considered ministries since their intention is to build up the Church.
1 Corinthians 14 : 26-33 describes the order in an assembly.

The common gift of praying in tongues is not directed to the community, but rather it is directed to God Himself. Thus, we can use this gift of Tongues to praise God, to petition God, to ask for His mercy, to pray over people and so on.

One of the blessings is when people gather together to praise God, to give their love to God by using their personal gift of Tongues. This is usually a joyous event. Sometimes, the group sings in tongues. Charismatic Prayer meetings do have order in that there is a definite place for praying and praising in Tongues. There is also a place where there is quiet and silent prayer to prepare for God’s grace for the community via one or more of the nine classical gifts or ministries. These gifts are directed to the community.

Personally, I have gotten away from the term prayer language, but I do understand what you are referring to. The important thing about prayer language is that we yield to the Holy Spirit. In that sense, there is not a huge difference between Tongues used in prayer to God and Tongues used to give a message to the community.

Thanks, grannymh. Makes me love the Catholic Church all the more for actually understanding and carrying forth the Truth along with Tradition. So glad I am converting.

 

[DebChris]

When the gift of tongues as Granny described is being used for praise in the assembly, what you will notice is a crescendo and decrescendo as voices are added to the praise and worship of God. There is a definite beginning and ending to the praise. In general, this will be followed by a profound silence.
As scripture says, “Be still and know that I am God.”
Sometimes during this silence, there will be prophecy. Here I need to define prophecy. Prophecy is not the foretelling of the future. Prophecy is when God speaks through a person. This is where discernment is so important. More often than not the words that are spoken are words about how much God loves each and every one of us. They will be confirmed by another person who is receiving the same Word, perhaps in different phrasing, or a corresponding scripture passage. Sometimes it is a call to repentance and forgiveness. As always, whoever has been gifted with prophecy submits to discernment to ensure that what is spoken is truly from God and not from his/her own imagination.
The prophecy may be given in tongues, which would be than be interpreted by somebody who has that gift.