Question regarding Revelation

[dean24us]

Hello! A month or so ago, I asked our priest to explain one of the readings from the book of Revelation. My question lead to a very interesting discussion on how the author made heavy use of metaphoric / symbolic language throughout the book of Revelation that would be familiar to the Christian of the community of the time to describe the pre-Christian Roman empire, as well as give hope to those early Christians who were being persecuted at the time by Rome. His answer came as a bit of a surprise to me, as his explanation actually fit it line with some of the scholarly works I’ve read regarding Revelation. In short, I left the conversation with the idea that Revelation wasn’t so much an apocalyptic book describing future events (i.e., as our Protestant brethren often believe) but rather more of a historical work on the trials and tribulations the early Church had to endure.

What has me a bit confused, however, is that the CCC has references to Revelation when, among other things, discussing the Church’s ultimate trial (see the references listed for CCC 675-677 to see what I’m talking about). Since this portion of the CCC is inherently talking about future events, the fact that it makes references to Revelation seems to contradict the idea that Revelation is written to describe the trials of the early Church.

So, I say all of this to ask a deceptively simple question: does Revelation describe the past or future? As best as I can tell, one of three scenarios has to be true:

1. Revelation does describe the future (thus contradicting my priest).
2. Revelation describes the tribulations of the early Church (thus contradicting the idea the Revelation describes future events).
3. Revelation somehow describe BOTH the trials of the early Church as well as our own future (which will likely make my head explode ).

Any thoughts? Thanks for any answers you can provide!

Dean

 

[TimothyH]

Definitely number 3. Both. And more.

Revelation is the last book in the Bible for a reason. It is part of a story which starts “In the beginning” in Genesis 1:1 and ends with “Amen, Come Lord Jesus” in Revelation 22:20.

I was noting to my ten year old daughter this evening that John starts his Gospel with “In the Beginning” just like Genesis. Taken together, John’s Gospel and Revelation both shadow the Bible in that together they are a cliff notes version of the entirety of scripture, a snapshot of all of salvation history from “In the Beginning” to “Come Lord Jesus”, from the beginning of time to the end of time.

And there is a reason why the Holy Spirit helped the Church understand that Revelation was supposed to be at the end of the Bible. It is the last book of the Bible because like the last chapter of a novel, it is expected that you have read and understand everything that comes before it. The seals, the locust, and the four winds, the heavenly Jerusalem which nothing unclean shall enter, are all part of the story which started way back in the Old Testament.

Then he said to me: Prophesy to the breath, prophesy, son of man! Say to the breath: Thus says the Lord GOD: From the four winds come, O breath, and breathe into these slain that they may come to life. I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath entered them; they came to life and stood on their feet, a vast army. He said to me: Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel! (Ezekiel 37:9-11)

The author goes on to tell us how the army is the nation of Israel. And that part of the story in Ezekiel is picked up and concluded by John in Revelation where he speaks of the life giving four winds of God finally stopping and the sealing of the 144,000, a vast army, from every tribe in Israel. Ezekiel prophesies that the life giving breath of God, the Holy Spirit, will come and give life and salvation to Israel. And John tells us that at a certain point, God is going to put a stake in the ground and that’s it… No more wind. No more life giving breath of God. No more salvation. It’s too late.

After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth so that no wind could blow on land or sea or against any tree. … "Do not damage the land or the sea or the trees until we put the seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God. I heard the number of those who had been marked with the seal, one hundred and forty-four thousand marked from every tribe of the Israelites. (Revelation 7:1,4)*

Ezekeil told us part of the story and John told us the end of it.

And that’s really the point of Revelation. Its the end of a giant, amazing story, which starts with “a mighty wind” hovering over the deep in Genesis 1:1 and ends with “Amen, Come Lord Jesus” at the end of Revelation. The bible wasn’t mean to be read out of order. You can’t understand the story that way. Many try, but its like trying to understand Lord of the Rings by watching the last half hour of the last movie. It doesn’t make sense that way.

-Tim-

 

[Heuchler]

You have to realise that in symbollic things like revelation (as it contains a lot of symbolization whether you believe it to describe the future or not). With that knowledge we can see that these symbols can be interpretted really either way. However, if you do look at an annotated Catholic Bible you will see that in the notes many of the theories of how the prophecies have been carried out in the past. So, really you could take it either way (and I’m not sure which is the church’s teaching but I know that famous saints have taken both sides of the argument). But I wouldn’t worry about it. Most of the people who focus very heavily on revelation are the sharlatans preachers like the man who predicted the rapture last may. They are just preying on the human fear of death and the end times to make a profit. So, don’t worry about it and devote yourself to Christ and Love and be ready for when the master of the house returns.

 

[pablope]

Hello!

So, I say all of this to ask a deceptively simple question: does Revelation describe the past or future? As best as I can tell, one of three scenarios has to be true:

1. Revelation does describe the future (thus contradicting my priest).
2. Revelation describes the tribulations of the early Church (thus contradicting the idea the Revelation describes future events).
3. Revelation somehow describe BOTH the trials of the early Church as well as our own future (which will likely make my head explode ).

Any thoughts? Thanks for any answers you can provide!

Dean

I think it is a little bit of all of 1 to 3. But in the end, it carries a message of hope, of the ultimate triumph of good over evil.

For it already states or prophesies the triumph of Christ…so no matter what, Christ will triumph…and I think this is what it is conveying.

Have you read Scott Hahn’s take on the Revelation, in his book…“The Lamb’s Supper.”

 

[COPLAND_3]

Here is a link to the Aquinas Study Bible on Revelation ocsb.wetpaint.com/page/Revelation

It is loaded with commentary from every generation of the Church, and gives a variety of interpretations. I think the way the Church teaches concerning the senses of Scripture is the best way to approach not only most of Scripture but most definately Revelation. It should be read literally, not taking metaphors and symbols literally, but that they mean something literally and not just in broad general terms.

Then we should look for the spiritual, such as the allegorical, meaning that there are types, such as the Antichrist, there have been types of the Antichrist throughout history.

Then we can look at the moral understanding, such as how different passages in Revelation can relate to you or the Church in our day.

And the historical approach can be taken because there are some things in it that have already taken place, especially in the first 3 chapters.

 

[razredge]

Or alternatively, Revelation is a nice story but isn’t really much help for us Christians besides creating completely silly distinctions like those who belief in a literal 1000 year reign of Christ or a figurative reign etc. etc.

Definitely has to be the book in the Bible that has caused the most confusion

 

[dean24us]

Thanks to everybody for the responses!

I suppose I’m not alone in my questions regarding Revelation. As far as I can tell (and please DO correct me if I’m wrong), it seems that there is no clear Catholic position on the contents of Revelation with regard to “what’s already happened” and “what’s going to happen in the future”. I’m okay with that, but I have to admit that I find that a bit surprising, considering how mature & thorough our interpretations are of other parts of the Bible.

On a related note, does anyone have an idea of how the clergy are trained in the Catholic interpretation of the Bible? In other words, are clergy also expected to interpret the contents of books like Revelation themselves, or is there some “secret book of standardized Bible interpretations” that the clergy have access to?

Thanks again,
Dean

 

[ryanoneil]

Hello! A month or so ago, I asked our priest to explain one of the readings from the book of Revelation. My question lead to a very interesting discussion on how the author made heavy use of metaphoric / symbolic language throughout the book of Revelation that would be familiar to the Christian of the community of the time to describe the pre-Christian Roman empire, as well as give hope to those early Christians who were being persecuted at the time by Rome. His answer came as a bit of a surprise to me, as his explanation actually fit it line with some of the scholarly works I’ve read regarding Revelation. In short, I left the conversation with the idea that Revelation wasn’t so much an apocalyptic book describing future events (i.e., as our Protestant brethren often believe) but rather more of a historical work on the trials and tribulations the early Church had to endure.

What has me a bit confused, however, is that the CCC has references to Revelation when, among other things, discussing the Church’s ultimate trial (see the references listed for CCC 675-677 to see what I’m talking about). Since this portion of the CCC is inherently talking about future events, the fact that it makes references to Revelation seems to contradict the idea that Revelation is written to describe the trials of the early Church.

So, I say all of this to ask a deceptively simple question: does Revelation describe the past or future? As best as I can tell, one of three scenarios has to be true:

1. Revelation does describe the future (thus contradicting my priest).
2. Revelation describes the tribulations of the early Church (thus contradicting the idea the Revelation describes future events).
3. Revelation somehow describe BOTH the trials of the early Church as well as our own future (which will likely make my head explode ).

Any thoughts? Thanks for any answers you can provide!

Dean

I would say number 3. Most Christians throughout history have believed we are in the 1,000 years (chapter 20) since the incarnation of Christ. The first 19 chapters would describe events in the first century. The Church’s final trial happens at the end of the 1,000 years, and the history of the first 19 chapters could repeat themselve in that time.

 

[dean24us]

I would say number 3. Most Christians throughout history have believed we are in the 1,000 years (chapter 20) since the incarnation of Christ. The first 19 chapters would describe events in the first century. The Church’s final trial happens at the end of the 1,000 years, and the history of the first 19 chapters could repeat themselve in that time.

Thanks for the response – I appreciate the specificity!

If you don’t mind me asking, do you have any external references for the information you provided? Not that I’m doubting you, but the information you put forth was right along the lines of what I was hoping for and I’d like to read more on the subject.

Thanks again,
Dean

 

[ryanoneil]

Thanks for the response – I appreciate the specificity!

If you don’t mind me asking, do you have any external references for the information you provided? Not that I’m doubting you, but the information you put forth was right along the lines of what I was hoping for and I’d like to read more on the subject.

Thanks again,
Dean

Your welcome.
I would recommend the book “Rapture” the end-times error that leaves the bible behind- by David B. Currie.