Question regarding Roman Catholic Woman Priest

[DKIN]

Hello All,

Hoping you can offer some help and clarification on some finer points in an email exchange I’m having with a woman who claims to be a Roman Catholic, yet also claims to be an ordained priest with apostolic succession.

I’ll set this up for you all. My parents were traveling and stayed at an RV park where they were handed a list of instructions upon check-in. At the bottom of the paper it had an invitation to attend their “Eucharistic Celebration” on Sunday mornings. It went on to say that it was an “Open Communion” and that the “presider is a Catholic woman priest”.

I found this to be quite scandalous and so I emailed the Diocese that they are in to bring it to their attention. They responded quickly and said the Bishop was fully aware of the situation and that it had been addressed to the fullest extent possible within Church law.

I also emailed the camp ground to express my concern to which I also received a quick response. This email came directly from the “woman priest”. I will quote the response in its entirity below, omitting the name and similiar specifics.
Dear David,
Thank you for your inquiry. I am not going to engage in a debate with you. I will quite simply state a few facts.

1. Not all Catholics are Roman. The Old Catholic Church, the Ecumenical Catholic Communion, and the Orthodox Catholic Church are all Catholic. It is worth noting that all these churches do ordain women.
2. The term “Eucharist” is not only used by Roman Catholics, it is also used by the groups I have listed, as well as, Episcopalians and Lutherans.
3. The Roman Catholic Church is not just the hierarchy and those in the Vatican. The Body of Christ encompasses all the faithful. Historically changes have occurred from the top down and the bottom up.
4. I am a Roman Catholic Woman Priest validly, though illicitly ordained in apostolic succession. You may not accept my ordination, but many others do. I am a Roman Catholic and remain a Roman Catholic despite my excommunication.
5. I have the same training as any male Roman Catholic Priest. I fully understand what the RCC teaches. I simply disagree in regard to some areas. I have an awesome knowledge of Church history. I mislead no one by what I print on our camp information sheet. I readily explain the official RCC position and my call to priesthood. Thinking Catholics may then choose to participate or not.
6. I mean no disrespect, but you do not know as much as you think you know about Catholicism.

Blessings,
Before I began crafting a response to her email I wanted to throw this out there to get thoughts, suggestions, clarifications on opposing Catholic doctrine, etc.

+PAX,

Dave

 

[1ke]

My advice is to shake the dust from your sandals and move on.

This is not a person open to hearing anything you say. This is an excommunicated person content to be so.

 

[dshix]

My advice is to shake the dust from your sandals and move on.

This is not a person open to hearing anything you say. This is an excommunicated person content to be so.

And one who is not a priest, whatever she may say.

 

[OraLabora]

My advice is to shake the dust from your sandals and move on.

This is not a person open to hearing anything you say. This is an excommunicated person content to be so.

Completely agree with this advice.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

She knows that she is excommunicated by her own choice. She says: “I am not going to engage in a debate with you.” What is there to be gained by arguing with her?

 

[Gliggle]

Don’t reply, but pray for her. She pretty much said she isn’t interested in anything you have to say. If you feel offended by her reply, offer up the humiliation you feel for her soul.

 

[rfournier103]

Roman Catholic Priest = no such thing.

As the others said - move on.

 

[DavidFilmer]

There’s no such thing as a female Roman Catholic priest, and there never will be. From Ordinatio Sacerdotalis:

Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful.

And people STILL didn’t get the message, so Ratzinger asked the Pope about it further. From
RESPONSUM AD PROPOSITUM DUBIUM CONCERNING THE TEACHING CONTAINED IN “ORDINATIO SACERDOTALIS”:

*Dubium *(question) asked by Joseph Card. Ratzinger]: Whether the teaching that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women, which is presented in the Apostolic Letter Ordinatio Sacerdotalis to be held definitively, is to be understood as belonging to the deposit of faith [which means “infallible”].

*Responsum *[from Pope John Paul-2]: Affirmative.

This teaching requires definitive assent, since, founded on the written Word of God, and from the beginning constantly preserved and applied in the Tradition of the Church, it has been set forth infallibly by the ordinary and universal Magisterium (cf. Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution on the Church Lumen Gentium 25, 2). Thus, in the present circumstances, the Roman Pontiff, exercising his proper office of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32), has handed on this same teaching by a formal declaration, explicitly stating what is to be held always, everywhere, and by all, as belonging to the deposit of the faith.

She says:

1. Not all Catholics are Roman. The Old Catholic Church, the Ecumenical Catholic Communion, and the Orthodox Catholic Church are all Catholic. It is worth noting that all these churches do ordain women.

I don’t know about the other two, but this is true of the Old Catholics. This is putting their Orders in jeopardy - if they “ordain” a “female bishop” then Rome will cease to view them as Catholic (they would invalidate their Orders by a defect of intent and recipient). Rome does not consider their “female priests” to be valid.

I’ve never heard that Rome recognizes the orders of the Ecumenical Catholic Communion or the Orthodox Catholic Church - just the Old Catholics, the PNCC, and (obviously) the Greek Orthodox.

 

[Micosil]

1. I am a Roman Catholic Woman Priest validly, though illicitly ordained in apostolic succession. You may not accept my ordination, but many others do. I am a Roman Catholic and remain a Roman Catholic despite my excommunication.

Hah, yeah, no – the Sacrament of Holy Orders requires a baptized male, no exceptions.

1. I mean no disrespect, but you do not know as much as you think you know about Catholicism.

If she knew as much as she claims to, she’d know Holy Orders requires a baptized male for the sacrament to be valid or efficacious…

As others have told you, let it go, and pray for her.

 

[DKIN]

She knows that she is excommunicated by her own choice. She says: “I am not going to engage in a debate with you.” What is there to be gained by arguing with her?

I said I was going to respond. I don’t plan to argue with her.

Dave

 

[Tantum_ergo]

I said I was going to respond. I don’t plan to argue with her.

Dave

Well, then, I don’t know how you could respond other than, “I will pray for you to be reconciled to God’s authentic teaching.”

By stating anything else, even though I’m sure you are and have been stating correct Church teaching, if it contradicts her ‘opinion’, you’re going to be seen as arguing. And once that happens, she can either dismiss anything you say (as if she isn’t already), or she can think, “Hmm, somebody who thinks he can change ME, I’ll just show HIM” and do the usual M.O. --innuendo, unsupported and vague claims presented as though the speaker has more ‘knowledge’ and that anybody who isn’t as aware is just not even capable of being in a discussion, and either vituperation or an attempt to twist and confuse the other person.

As others say, it is not worth it. She already knows, and has rejected the True Church for the god in her own image and likeness. All one really CAN do is pray at this point.

 

[pianistclare]

Responding gives her a platform.
As other have said, move on.

 

[PseuTonym]

I am not going to engage in a debate with you. I will quite simply state a few facts.

1. I am a Roman Catholic Woman Priest validly, though illicitly ordained in apostolic succession.

I would request a reference source (such as a link to an online encyclopaedia, or to a physical book available in libraries) that defines the terms “validly” and “illicitly.” Without access to the definitions that are being relied upon, the statement is incomprehensible, and it become unclear why the writer used English. An effective way to avoid not only debates but any meaningful communication would be to translate the whole message into a relatively obscure language, and refuse to provide an English translation.

 

[Denise1957]

I have an acquaintance whom I only see once every few years. Our children attended the same preschool in the 80’s, and she and her husband live near us. She was raised Catholic, but has been attending a womanpriest church for awhile now. We once had a long conversation about it, shortly after I converted. I’ll try to remember some of the things we discussed. She felt that since the sex-abuse crisis, that women are very much needed in the priesthood. She referred to former priest at our local Catholic parish (who was retired by the time I attended there), as a “horrible old man,” which really bothered me a lot. She seemed to have the idea that men make bad priests, and are not to be trusted, and that women are naturally better than men, which is why they make better priests. Sad.

She also talked about woman deacons in the bible, but I pointed out to her that their role was to catechize and prepare women for baptism, and also to look after and prepare the bodies of deceased women for burial. She didn’t really have anything to say after that regarding the women deacons as supporting the idea of womenpriests.

As has already been mentioned on the thread, even though this woman (who thinks she’s a priest) believes her ordination to be valid, it is not valid. The wheat wafer and wine are not confected when she celebrates her “mass;” and they remain bread and wine only.

 

[rfournier103]

The most upsetting thing about all this is that this lady is leading people into error. I know that’s not a concept we Catholics throw around a whole lot (more of a Protestant thing…); but she is confusing and polluting the minds of what is likely some very impressionable people.

Yes, in this day and age most people are going to gravitate to the religion that conforms most to what they want, but this woman may confuse some people who may not be all that sharp to begin with, and put them into some serious spiritual peril. Not to mention her undermining the ACTUAL Church…

The best we can do at the moment is spread the word about this woman and her fraudulent ministry. I’m sure she means well, but she’s actually causing more harm than good. Thank you for bringing this to our attention. Maybe the word will get out about her and FAITHFUL Catholics will expose her for what she is.

 

[Denise1957]

1. I have the same training as any male Roman Catholic Priest. I fully understand what the RCC teaches. I simply disagree in regard to some areas. I have an awesome knowledge of Church history. I mislead no one by what I print on our camp information sheet. I readily explain the official RCC position and my call to priesthood. Thinking Catholics may then choose to participate or not.
2. I mean no disrespect, but you do not know as much as you think you know about Catholicism.

Regarding #5, you might consider asking her about what she has printed on her camp sheet and what it says about the official RCC position. She may not be correct in what she believes or has written on the sheet. I would imagine that some of her church “history” includes references to women whom she believes to have been ordained. Of course she would be wrong, but you could consider investigating her claims, and counter them with proper Catholic teaching, though it would take time and effort on your part. If you remain charitable in everything you say, the longer she may be willing to debate the issues with you. It isn’t always easy to be charitable yet forthright.

 

[PseuTonym]

If you remain charitable in everything you say, the longer she may be willing to debate the issues with you.

She said quite clearly that she will not debate. Why would you assume otherwise?

Regarding #5, you might consider asking her about what she has printed on her camp sheet and what it says about the official RCC position. She may not be correct in what she believes or has written on the sheet. I would imagine that some of her church “history” includes references to women whom she believes to have been ordained. Of course she would be wrong, but you could consider investigating her claims

This makes sense: requesting more information. However, any attempt at refutation would have to be directed to people who might be misled by her, rather than directed to her.

 

[Denise1957]

She said quite clearly that she will not debate. Why would you assume otherwise?

The forum member who wrote the OP is formulating a response to the woman in question. IMO, she is likely to respond to the response. You may not call that debate, but I do.

 

[captainrick]

I said I was going to respond. I don’t plan to argue with her.

Dave

My response would be: “Thank you for you response. God bless you.” Why aggravate yourself further?

 

[Denise1957]

S
This makes sense: requesting more information. However, any attempt at refutation would have to be directed to people who might be misled by her, rather than directed to her.

Perhaps the forum member in the OP feels it is his duty to correct someone who has wrong views about the Catholic faith, which isn’t exactly unheard of for a Catholic to do.